Suns and Rockets

[shagadelic45]

PHX TRADES: Durant, Beal, Plumlee, Jones, Lee, Morris, Bol


HOU TRADES: FVV, Brooks, Adams, Green, Landale, Tate, 2025 #1 Okc/Phx, 2027 #1 Phx, 2027 #1 Bky swap, 2029 #1, 2029 #1 Dal/Phx, 2031 #1



Rockets make a move adding 2 stars without losing any of their youth or depth

Suns rebuild getting back expirings and picks

(would need to be broken down into a few smaller trades with PHX over the second apron and unable to aggregate salaries....but still works...this is the short version)

[ThatBoyNick]

Hard, and I do mean hard, no.

As a counter Brooks, Jeff, Landale, Tate and the 25 & 27 first returned for KD would be a top dollar picks based offer, for me personally.

[Texas Chuck]

Hard, and I do mean hard, no.

Nick, please provide reasons why. Just saying no doesn't help the OP improve his ideas nor does it further conversation.

Edit: I see your edit. Perfect.

Thanks!

[wemby]

Rockets add 2 stars? Which is the second star? I see Durant, a former star on a horrendous contract, and filler. That package is too much even for Durant himself at his age, if you have the Rockets having to take in Beal as well you would get maybe 30% of that package

[Texas Chuck]

Yeah if we can't call Durant a star essentially nobody is one. But that's pointless.

[CBA]

It’s an interesting trade without the picks. Suns dump Beal’s contract and get back good role players at the price of Durant. Build around Booker, again.

[ThatBoyNick]

Yeah if we can't call Durant a star essentially nobody is one. But that's pointless.

OP says adding two stars, I believe Wemby is saying Durant is 1, and asking who the second star is, describing Beal as a former star on a bad contract.

[LarsV8]

Phoenix's pick to us this year is currently sitting at 11, and its very possible it it could swing down to 8 or 9, with a punchers chance to jump into top 4. Phoenix looks old and hopeless. They just took their last swing with Richards, who is a solid player, but not really a difference maker. Going forward, Tyus likely walks, Durant, Beal and Booker will all be older and worse. The owner is going to have outrageous tax bills. And probably the worst thing about it all is they will be without any sort of forward momentum. There will be no reason for anyone on the team to really even try anymore, with basically no options to improve, and not good enough to play in.

From a forecast perspective, 2027 and 2029 Phoenix picks look absolutely golden.

So here the Rockets sit, a good or possibly great pick in 2025, and likely near guaranteed top 8 picks in 27, and 29, with an overperforming team, primarily of 20-22 year olds, who are only going to get better. We are sitting in an ivory tower, so to speak.

The only thing even slightly concerning to Houston, which is just flush with house money, is controlling future payroll. The honest truth here is that Houston has Phoenix over the barrel right now and the above proposed is a sweetheart deal which just isn't happening. Even Jalen Green has looked awesome lately, and the nightmare scenario (for Phoenix) is he actually pans into a star, and Houston just has no need for anything Phoenix has. Even our 9-12 guys, in Holiday, Tate and Adams are all performing extremely well.

That said, Kevin Durant is a great player, even though he could fall off a cliff at any moment. Sure he would be a fun player to add to the team today for a playoff run or two, so I could certainly justify trading for him. I might even be willing to give up a young guy, as again, I don't think we would be able to pay for all these guys long term, but the Phoenix picks are absolutely off the table in any Durant deal, as well as the Brooklyn swap in 27. Maybe a Houston first in 2028 or one that will almost certainly be not very good.

As for specifics, this is about the best I would offer, and this is really ONLY because I don't think I can pay all the young guys, and the alternative is they are flipped for future picks.

Adams, Landale, Holiday, Uncle Jeff, Jabari Smith Jr, 2028 Houston #1, top ten protected.
for
Durant and Jones

FVV / Jones / Reed
Green / Whitmore / Tate
Brooks / Eason
Durant / Amen
Sengun

They should hate that deal, but this is the reality in where Houston sits. There is an avenue where Phoenix gets their picks back, but they will absolutely hate it, as we will take them to the woodshed in any deal.

edit - lol I somehow missed Beal was also in the original deal. What are we even doing here.

[Kiss of Death]

A. Suns cannot aggregate contracts (they can only trade one player at a time, at least until they get under the second apron).

B. The Rockets would not do this even if the trade was legal. Why would they turn themselves into the Suns? From one of the best young teams in the NBA with one of the best futures into ‘the Suns’. It makes no sense.

[Frankie]

Tell me why Houston should do this?

I don't want any of those players in Houston. KD is obviously great, but he turns 37 this year. Including Beal and bunch of other role players is just madness. We have no need for any of them. And we're the ones giving up 6 (SIX!!!) firsts?

[Slim Charless]

Phoenix's pick to us this year is currently sitting at 11, and its very possible it it could swing down to 8 or 9, with a punchers chance to jump into top 4. Phoenix looks old and hopeless. They just took their last swing with Richards, who is a solid player, but not really a difference maker. Going forward, Tyus likely walks, Durant, Beal and Booker will all be older and worse. The owner is going to have outrageous tax bills. And probably the worst thing about it all is they will be without any sort of forward momentum. There will be no reason for anyone on the team to really even try anymore, with basically no options to improve, and not good enough to play in.

From a forecast perspective, 2027 and 2029 Phoenix picks look absolutely golden.

So here the Rockets sit, a good or possibly great pick in 2025, and likely near guaranteed top 8 picks in 27, and 29, with an overperforming team, primarily of 20-22 year olds, who are only going to get better. We are sitting in an ivory tower, so to speak.

The only thing even slightly concerning to Houston, which is just flush with house money, is controlling future payroll. The honest truth here is that Houston has Phoenix over the barrel right now and the above proposed is a sweetheart deal which just isn't happening. Even Jalen Green has looked awesome lately, and the nightmare scenario (for Phoenix) is he actually pans into a star, and Houston just has no need for anything Phoenix has. Even our 9-12 guys, in Holiday, Tate and Adams are all performing extremely well.

That said, Kevin Durant is a great player, even though he could fall off a cliff at any moment. Sure he would be a fun player to add to the team today for a playoff run or two, so I could certainly justify trading for him. I might even be willing to give up a young guy, as again, I don't think we would be able to pay for all these guys long term, but the Phoenix picks are absolutely off the table in any Durant deal, as well as the Brooklyn swap in 27. Maybe a Houston first in 2028 or one that will almost certainly be not very good.

As for specifics, this is about the best I would offer, and this is really ONLY because I don't think I can pay all the young guys, and the alternative is they are flipped for future picks.

Adams, Landale, Holiday, Uncle Jeff, Jabari Smith Jr, 2028 Houston #1, top ten protected.
for
Durant and Jones

FVV / Jones / Reed
Green / Whitmore / Tate
Brooks / Eason
Durant / Amen
Sengun

They should hate that deal, but this is the reality in where Houston sits. There is an avenue where Phoenix gets their picks back, but they will absolutely hate it, as we will take them to the woodshed in any deal.

edit - lol I somehow missed Beal was also in the original deal. What are we even doing here.

Good luck with that.

This trade wont happen till the summer if it happens at all. When that occurs, Adams will be a UFA as will Green. You'll be giving up all of our picks when a trade happens as well. Other stuff added will be dependent on whether it's KD or Book coming over. Either way, we'll be getting those picks back. Every single one.

I'd bet on it.

[drchaos]

If I am Houston and want to take a swing at a KD / Beal combo I am waiting until this Summer.

Phoenix would have to do something huge at the deadline for their pick this year to be outside of the lottery.

Houston could make a deal this Summer involving the future picks but they have no reason to rush this.

[Astaluego]

I think LarsV8 explained the situation perfectly.. Houston has the situation in control and the Suns as hostages.. just sit back and wait to collect those very valuable future picks.. the only path I see as plausible in my head and a "victory" for both teams..it would be dealing with Booker in the offseason.. Booker goes to Houston (and that's only if Green's current moment is just a mirage) and the SUNS get their picks back + Green/Smith or something...

[drchaos]

I think LarsV8 explained the situation perfectly.. Houston has the situation in control and the Suns as hostages.. just sit back and wait to collect those very valuable future picks.. the only path I see as plausible in my head and a "victory" for both teams..it would be dealing with Booker in the offseason.. Booker goes to Houston (and that's only if Green's current moment is just a mirage) and the SUNS get their picks back + Green/Smith or something...

I think the writing is on the wall that KD needs to go for Phoenix to get competitive again.

I am not sure they need to let Booker go and I think that doesn't happen until they have tried everything else first.

[Astaluego]

I think LarsV8 explained the situation perfectly.. Houston has the situation in control and the Suns as hostages.. just sit back and wait to collect those very valuable future picks.. the only path I see as plausible in my head and a "victory" for both teams..it would be dealing with Booker in the offseason.. Booker goes to Houston (and that's only if Green's current moment is just a mirage) and the SUNS get their picks back + Green/Smith or something...

I think the writing is on the wall that KD needs to go for Phoenix to get competitive again.

I am not sure they need to let Booker go and I think that doesn't happen until they have tried everything else first.

I agree, but then I think they will have to look for a business partner other than Houston... I can't think of any team willing to pay a high enough price for KD... that ends up with the Suns being a good team. Maybe Miami would want KD and send the package received by Butler+ to the Suns??

[Xman]

Rockets have the swap in 2025 and the PHX firsts in 2027 and 2029.
So, even if Houston gave those back, PHX still owes unprotected multiple swaps in 2026(Was), 2028(?) and 2030(Was). Washington has primary swap in 2026&30 so would have to deal with them and 2028 one is convoluted. That makes it hard to justify a rebuild.
But, if they did go that route, this is another version:
Hou - gets KD
PHX gets Jabari, Whitmore, Tate, Landale, Holiday, JeffGreen, picks (the max would be the swap in 2025 and the PHX firsts in 2027 and 2029).
- PHX gets the picks plus two really good prospects (Jabari/Whitmore). The rest are non-grty, expiring or team options.
PHX starts - Booker, Jabari, Landale (or Richards/Nurkic), Whitmore (or Beal), Tyus (or Holiday). Clearly not as good as with KD - but picks back.

For Houston, this is sending a lot. Jabari still has a ton of potential (6'11 with solid defense - but, if he gets his shot right then he is scary, already 35% but could get back to the 42% he had in college) and Whitmore is solid all around and can score like crazy (except possibly worst passer ever). The rest are solid backup guys which are nice to have but it does not hurt that muh to let them go. KD would fill a need and make them a serious ring contender (a contender now with 4th best record but playoffs can be different).
pg - Vleet, Amen
sg - JGreen, Sheppard
sf - Brooks, Amen
pf - KD, Eason
c - Sengun, Adams
The 7 deep of Vleet/JalenG/Amen/KD/Eason/Sengun is wow. Adams (veteran) and Sheppard (developing rookie 3rd pick) probably get very few minutes in playoffs but are there.

[psman2]

If any team is buying Durant they are not going to want to bring along Beal for the ride. Flawed premise that likely would never happen unless a team has no other way to get Durant and even then the money matching would make extremely hard.

[drchaos]

If any team is buying Durant they are not going to want to bring along Beal for the ride. Flawed premise that likely would never happen unless a team has no other way to get Durant and even then the money matching would make extremely hard.

The Nets were patient enough to wait for Ben's contract to expire.

I think the Suns would be wise to do the same with Beal.

Unless the Suns can figure out how to win a chip with their current roster KD is the odd man out.

[Xman]

Have not been watching PHX but is Beal is not working well, then they are shot. Riding out this year plus two more of Beal seems like a team killer. That being said, his stats are ok and if he can kick it in the playoffs then it might work. Lots of "ifs."

Nets and Rockets were pretty much forced to ride out bad contracts of Simmons and Wall. The Rockets took it down to the studs. BKN has pretty much done the same now - in conjunction with getting their picks back so they could benefit from being bad.
PHX owes unprotected picks/swaps for so long (2025-2030). Even if HOU deals with them, they would also have to deal with WAS on two of the swaps (2028 is so convoluted that I am not sure who they would need to deal with). So, not seeing any draft help for a while.
KD is 36 and expiring 2025/26 - a year before Beal. Think he resigns if it isn't working? I doubt it.
Booker has three years after this so he cannot walk (could try to force a deal if he wanted to). But, it just seems sad to waste three years of his prime. Especially, when Beal expires, Booker will be 30 and about to be 31 like Beal is now.

[ThatBoyNick]

Hou - gets KD
PHX gets Jabari, Whitmore, Tate, Landale, Holiday, JeffGreen, picks (the max would be the swap in 2025 and the PHX firsts in 2027 and 2029).

That’s really steep for Houston

Durant is still an amazing player but trading the equivalent of roughly 5 decent 1sts for a 36 year old when our core is 23 and under is a wild move.

If he doesn’t come significantly cheaper than that I’d really hope we pass. A 2 or 3 first equivalent is a lot for a short term investment, once we get to 4+ it seems like malpractice.