RealGM

Ill offer this idea for:
-Beal to waive his NTC to go to a competitive team in FLA
-Butler to Suns
-Miami takes back expirings while keeping immediate 1st
-Rebuilding Toronto takes a 1st for Brown while getting Isaac
-Rebuilding Washington takes a 1st for Brogdon while getting Pope

To Phoenix (Trade Beal, 3 1sts, 2nd)
-Jimmy Butler (1 year, $48.8 million plus P.O.)

To Miami (Trade Butler)
-Bruce Brown (1 year, $23 million)
-Malcolm Brogdon (1 year, $22.5 million)
-2025 Cleveland or Minnesota 1st via Phoenix
-2025 Denver or Philly 2nd rounder (less favorable via Phoenix

To Orlando (Trade Pope, Isaac)
-Bradley Beal (3 years, $161 million)

To Toronto (Trade Brown)
-Jonathan Isaac (5 years, $84 million)
-2027 Cleveland or Minnesota 1st via Phoenix

To Washington (Trade Brogdon)
-Kentavious Caldwell Pope (3 years, $66 million)
-2029 Cleveland or Minnesota 1st via Phoenix

Why?
-Phoenix uses the 3 1sts to have asset flexibility to involve 2 other teams to help Miami not take on Beal
-Miami gets 2 expirings and a 1st for Jimmy as the maintain cap flexbility while getting an immediate 1st. Miami can flip either guy if they want to take back more picks and someone with 1 more year on their deal.
-Orlando deals out similar guaranteed money for Beal as assumption is Beal would waive NTC clause to join a competitive FLA team
-Toronto swap Brown for Isaac while getting a 1st as this makes Boucher expendable to get a 2nd rounder for him
-Washington swap Brogdon for Pope while getting a 1st as Wasington focused on continue to stockpile 1sts.

The Wizards say no. Eating that remaining salary for basically what amounts to a second rounder is flat out not reasonable.

Miami passes.

Brogdon just isn't that good. I don't see him as being a help, and a very late first just doesn't cut it.

TGW wrote:The Wizards say no. Eating that remaining salary for basically what amounts to a second rounder is flat out not reasonable.

Well this isn't much different than the confines of the Paul/Poole deal.

BBallFreak wrote:Miami passes.

Brogdon just isn't that good. I don't see him as being a help, and a very late first just doesn't cut it.

I dont think the Heat can have their cake and eat it to when it comes to Butler. The ideal wish list is Im sure:

a) no drop off in talent acquired for Butler
b) contracts that expire by June 30th, 2026.
c) multiple 1st round picks

Can they achieve all 3 or at least 2?. Out of those 3, which stipulation of a Butler deal takes most precedence?

That causes major problems for Orlando. They need a cheaper scoring guard than Beal.

Bentley1225 wrote:

BBallFreak wrote:Miami passes.

Brogdon just isn't that good. I don't see him as being a help, and a very late first just doesn't cut it.

I dont think the Heat can have their cake and eat it to when it comes to Butler. The ideal wish list is Im sure:

a) no drop off in talent acquired for Butler
b) contracts that expire by June 30th, 2026.
c) multiple 1st round picks

Can they achieve all 3 or at least 2?. Out of those 3, which stipulation of a Butler deal takes most precedence?

The Milwaukee/Phoenix/Toronto deal is just flat out better. The rumor is Middleton and Brown along with either one or two firsts (we don't know how that's going to play out, yet). Brogdon just doesn't do anything for us. I don't see him as very good.

Bentley1225 wrote:I dont think the Heat can have their cake and eat it to when it comes to Butler. The ideal wish list is Im sure:

a) no drop off in talent acquired for Butler
b) contracts that expire by June 30th, 2026.
c) multiple 1st round picks

Can they achieve all 3 or at least 2?. Out of those 3, which stipulation of a Butler deal takes most precedence?

I agree. I'm also not as convinced as Freak that these are all hard outs for Miami. I know its been rumored/speculated but I think Miami is likely more flexible.

But let's say those 3 things are the want. I'm not sold they have the leverage to get all of them. And it seems to change thread to thread which one kills each deal. We thought we had it dialed in -- solid vets, one or two year deals, minor future asset. But basically every single deal that presents that gets shot down anyway....

Magic going to have to hard pass. Beal needs assets the Suns don't have.

Texas Chuck wrote:

Bentley1225 wrote:I dont think the Heat can have their cake and eat it to when it comes to Butler. The ideal wish list is Im sure:

a) no drop off in talent acquired for Butler
b) contracts that expire by June 30th, 2026.
c) multiple 1st round picks

Can they achieve all 3 or at least 2?. Out of those 3, which stipulation of a Butler deal takes most precedence?

I agree. I'm also not as convinced as Freak that these are all hard outs for Miami. I know its been rumored/speculated but I think Miami is likely more flexible.

But let's say those 3 things are the want. I'm not sold they have the leverage to get all of them. And it seems to change thread to thread which one kills each deal. We thought we had it dialed in -- solid vets, one or two year deals, minor future asset. But basically every single deal that presents that gets shot down anyway....

That's literally not true. I've agreed to a couple of deals just today. Also, never discussed the future assets. The calculus on that changed just yesterday.

And I'm pretty damned sure I have the right to not like every player someone tries to foist on us. I've never wanted Brogdon.

You have the right to not like any deal for any reason you want.

Texas Chuck wrote:You have the right to not like any deal for any reason you want.

But you're going to call me out and misrepresent my position every time I don't like one.

BBallFreak wrote:

Texas Chuck wrote:You have the right to not like any deal for any reason you want.

But you're going to call me out and misrepresent my position every time I don't like one.

I don't do this every time. I mean if you don't want misrepresentation.....

But enough. This isn't about you. It's about my disagreement on these firm of requirements anyway. I think Miami has more flexibility. I also think they can't get an idealized return at this point.

BBallFreak wrote:

Bentley1225 wrote:

BBallFreak wrote:Miami passes.

Brogdon just isn't that good. I don't see him as being a help, and a very late first just doesn't cut it.

I dont think the Heat can have their cake and eat it to when it comes to Butler. The ideal wish list is Im sure:

a) no drop off in talent acquired for Butler
b) contracts that expire by June 30th, 2026.
c) multiple 1st round picks

Can they achieve all 3 or at least 2?. Out of those 3, which stipulation of a Butler deal takes most precedence?

The Milwaukee/Phoenix/Toronto deal is just flat out better. The rumor is Middleton and Brown along with either one or two firsts (we don't know how that's going to play out, yet). Brogdon just doesn't do anything for us. I don't see him as very good.

Again, Toronto wont take on Connaughton for the Bucks 2031 2nd. He is of 0 need for Raps given they have younger assets to develop in same position. If the Raptors were ok with that, the deal would have already happened.

Texas Chuck wrote:

BBallFreak wrote:

Texas Chuck wrote:You have the right to not like any deal for any reason you want.

But you're going to call me out and misrepresent my position every time I don't like one.

I don't do this every time. I mean if you don't want misrepresentation.....

But enough. This isn't about you. It's about my disagreement on these firm of requirements anyway. I think Miami has more flexibility. I also think they can't get an idealized return at this point.

I beg to differ. I think we'll get exactly what we're looking for. I think he's going to end up in Phoenix, Middleton will end up in Miami, and Brown from Toronto will end up with Miami. We'll either get one or two actual first round picks.

I see that as a lot better than this deal. The stated goal is a player who can help us make the playoffs. I'm not 100% sure that's Middleton, but it sure as hell isn't Malcolm Brogdon.

Ducklett wrote:Magic going to have to hard pass. Beal needs assets the Suns don't have.

On paper, with July 1st, 2024 as starting point, the Magic take on $11 million more guaranteed collectively in dealing out Pope and Isaac for Beal. The question is how much more of an impact can Beal make than Pope over the next 2 seasons including this one. It comes down to a question of value vs. impact. Pope is better value but Beal may well be regarded as better player.

It seems like Orlando would be set with Suggs/Beal/Wagner/Banchero/Carter as their long term starting 5.

BBallFreak wrote:

Bentley1225 wrote:

BBallFreak wrote:Miami passes.

Brogdon just isn't that good. I don't see him as being a help, and a very late first just doesn't cut it.

I dont think the Heat can have their cake and eat it to when it comes to Butler. The ideal wish list is Im sure:

a) no drop off in talent acquired for Butler
b) contracts that expire by June 30th, 2026.
c) multiple 1st round picks

Can they achieve all 3 or at least 2?. Out of those 3, which stipulation of a Butler deal takes most precedence?

The Milwaukee/Phoenix/Toronto deal is just flat out better. The rumor is Middleton and Brown along with either one or two firsts (we don't know how that's going to play out, yet). Brogdon just doesn't do anything for us. I don't see him as very good.

Middleton looks pretty washed. He's still better than Brogdon, but I'd take the expiring deal over Middleton on the books for 2 years. Right now MIA is about $6M over the luxury tax for 25-26. That's with Butler. Swapping his deal out for Middleton clears about $15M. So duck the tax, but using the full MLE is tight. A full expiring package of Brown/Brogdon fixes that math. If they have a big deal lined up, they can use Rozier/DRob as expiring so it's not like they're unable to execute that without Middleton's deal.

hugepatsfan wrote:

BBallFreak wrote:

Bentley1225 wrote:
I dont think the Heat can have their cake and eat it to when it comes to Butler. The ideal wish list is Im sure:

a) no drop off in talent acquired for Butler
b) contracts that expire by June 30th, 2026.
c) multiple 1st round picks

Can they achieve all 3 or at least 2?. Out of those 3, which stipulation of a Butler deal takes most precedence?

The Milwaukee/Phoenix/Toronto deal is just flat out better. The rumor is Middleton and Brown along with either one or two firsts (we don't know how that's going to play out, yet). Brogdon just doesn't do anything for us. I don't see him as very good.

Middleton looks pretty washed. He's still better than Brogdon, but I'd take the expiring deal over Middleton on the books for 2 years. Right now MIA is about $6M over the luxury tax for 25-26. That's with Butler. Swapping his deal out for Middleton clears about $15M. So duck the tax, but using the full MLE is tight. A full expiring package of Brown/Brogdon fixes that math. If they have a big deal lined up, they can use Rozier/DRob as expiring so it's not like they're unable to execute that without Middleton's deal.

That's great. That's not what we're going for.

there's NO circumstance where Beal to ORL makes sense...
A. His contract is nuts and ORL is heading quickly into cap hell with their rookie extensions incoming over the next 2 years
B. He's really not THAT good - If he had Collin Sexton's contract (not 3x it for more years), I'd still take Sexton over Beal. Injury history, age, no trade clause, attitude/humility, athleticism - what exactly makes Beal a better player than Sexton? (for example)

Skybox wrote:there's NO circumstance where Beal to ORL makes sense...
A. His contract is nuts and ORL is heading quickly into cap hell with their rookie extensions incoming over the next 2 years
B. He's really not THAT good - If he had Collin Sexton's contract (not 3x it for more years), I'd still take Sexton over Beal. Injury history, age, no trade clause, attitude/humility, athleticism - what exactly makes Beal a better player than Sexton? (for example)

I tend to agree. I think Milwaukee is the only team that wants him that he'll want as well.