Wolves/Bulls/Pistons

[winforlose]

Wolves out: Julius Randle, 2025 Pistons first
Wolves in: Coby White, Jalen Smith

Pistons out: Tobias Harris, 2026 GSW 2nd
Pistons in: Julius Randle

Bulls out: Coby White, Jalen Smith
Bulls in: Tobias Harris, 2025 Pistons First, 2026 GSW 2nd

Why for the Wolves: Promote Naz to starting PF. Bring in Smith to play behind both Naz and Rudy and develop him as a future big. White becomes starting PG and adds spacing Ant needs while also giving the Wolves another guard. Use MCD, Ant, and Rudy defense to cover for White’s weaknesses on D.

Why for Pistons: add a more successful vet to help Cade and get off of Harris’s money. Randle is a pure talent upgrade with a track record this season of playing point forward. Extra creation at low cost.

Why for the Bulls: Get a first and 2nd for White and Smith. Harris isn’t good value, but he isn’t terrible either. He can help with making the play in for experience and then be moved next year as an expiring.

[Texas Chuck]

Pistons and Wolves both underpaying which really hurts Chicago here.

[winforlose]

Pistons and Wolves both underpaying which really hurts Chicago here.

Counter?

[Texas Chuck]

Pistons and Wolves both underpaying which really hurts Chicago here.

Counter?

I don't really have one because I don't think Detroit wants to pay the cost to turn Tobias into Randle with how well their season is going. Which would put the onus on Minnesota to pay the difference.

But if I were trying I would take out the Detroit 1st and put in Dillingham to Chicago. He's buried for 2 years after this trade anyway so Minny would be wise to use his value in trade.

[winforlose]

Pistons and Wolves both underpaying which really hurts Chicago here.

Counter?

I don't really have one because I don't think Detroit wants to pay the cost to turn Tobias into Randle with how well their season is going. Which would put the onus on Minnesota to pay the difference.

But if I were trying I would take out the Detroit 1st and put in Dillingham to Chicago. He's buried for 2 years after this trade anyway so Minny would be wise to use his value in trade.

Pistons want to upgrade because of how well their season is going. Harris is not the guy you want in the dog days of April and into May. He is a good role player, but his game isn’t as dynamic or diverse as Randle’s. Your argument seems to focus on a low opinion of Randle. Yet I think his numbers especially as a play maker get ignored.

The Wolves are not burying Dilly in my suggestion. DDV is done for most or all of the season. When he comes back he should play 2/3 instead of PG. Turnover rate is too high, lack of offensive creation makes Rudy and Jaden less effective, and DDV is not good enough at drive and kick. White and Dilly split the PG and Conley goes on injury DNP-CD to fix his wrist before the post season, where he serves as valuable depth. Next year Mike is likely not a rotation player.

You seem to think Chicago is owed more value but won’t specify how much more. That is a bad recipe for negotiation.

[Texas Chuck]

Pistons want to upgrade because of how well their season is going. Harris is not the guy you want in the dog days of April and into May. He is a good role player, but hisngsme isn’t as dynamic or diverse as Randle’s. Your argument seems to focus on a low opinion of Randle. Yet I think his numbers especially as a play maker get ignored.

.

I literally said he was an upgrade. I just disagree that Detroit should want to pay the difference. How this is denigrating Randle is beyond me. You read things into posts constantly that are not there.

[Texas Chuck]

You seem to think Chicago is owed more value but won’t specify how much more. That is a bad recipe for negotiation.

I think its a bad idea for Detroit, but literally still gave you how I would fix value. Again, you don't read what I post.

[winforlose]

Pistons want to upgrade because of how well their season is going. Harris is not the guy you want in the dog days of April and into May. He is a good role player, but hisngsme isn’t as dynamic or diverse as Randle’s. Your argument seems to focus on a low opinion of Randle. Yet I think his numbers especially as a play maker get ignored.

.

I literally said he was an upgrade. I just disagree that Detroit should want to pay the difference. How this is denigrating Randle is beyond me. You read things into posts constantly that are not there.

Gonna respond to both in one post.

You said the Solution was to add Dillingham (a player the Wolves invested an unprotected first and a top 1 protected swap,) to acquire. You think White and Smith is worth Randle, the Pistons first, and the #8 overall pick, who I explained we still have plans for. This is insane value for White and Smith. Who is gonna pay anything close to that on the existing trade market? As for the Det component, you said that value difference is more than a 2nd but then shifted it to the #8 overall pick in this years draft. I think the reason you think my post is reading too much into yours is yours is off the rails.

[Texas Chuck]

Pistons want to upgrade because of how well their season is going. Harris is not the guy you want in the dog days of April and into May. He is a good role player, but hisngsme isn’t as dynamic or diverse as Randle’s. Your argument seems to focus on a low opinion of Randle. Yet I think his numbers especially as a play maker get ignored.

.

I literally said he was an upgrade. I just disagree that Detroit should want to pay the difference. How this is denigrating Randle is beyond me. You read things into posts constantly that are not there.

Gonna respond to both in one post.

You said the Solution was to add Dillingham (a player the Wolves invested an unprotected first and a top 1 protected swap,) to acquire. You think White and Smith is worth Randle, the Pistons first, and the #8 overall pick, who I explained we still have plans for. This is insane value for White and Smith. Who is gonna pay anything close to that on the existing trade market? As for the Det component, you said that value difference is more than a 2nd but then shifted it to the #8 overall pick in this years draft. I think the reason you think my post is reading too much into yours is yours is off the rails.

You still aren't reading. Please take the time to read.

I said take out the Detroit 1st and insert Dillingham. I also said that Detroit owed more value as well but because I don't think they should pay it, I made Minnesota pay it because you wanted to try to address the value. I don't think Detroit owes the value of Dillingham. Nor due I think Minny does. But I pulled back a first and combined the value Detroit owed to what Minny owed.

And you think Dillingham still has a major role, but I disagree. Conley/White will get the PG minutes. Or should.

Now if you want to straw man me and then get mad, you do you, but what an absolute waste of time.

[zeebneeb]

In terms of fit, Harris is much more suitable with Cade, then Randle ever will be, and the Pistons cough up a second to make them worse.

The Pistons screwed around for Cades first 3 years, providing ill fitting players, and with a new GM, and coach, discovered what works. You want them to go backwards?

I don't care if Randle is the obvious better talent in this trade. He absolutely will not, under any circumstance, fit alongside Cade Cunningham.

Now, if you want to cough up McDaniels for the honor of taking on Randle, then we can have a conversation.

[winforlose]

In terms of fit, Harris is much more suitable with Cade, then Randle ever will be, and the Pistons cough up a second to make them worse.

The Pistons screwed around for Cades first 3 years, providing ill fitting players, and with a new GM, and coach, discovered what works. You want them to go backwards?

I don't care if Randle is the obvious better talent in this trade. He absolutely will not, under any circumstance, fit alongside Cade Cunningham.

Now, if you want to cough up McDaniels for the honor of taking on Randle, then we can have a conversation.

The problem with Real GM’s trade board is takes like this. Randle is a positive value player. You don’t want him on your team so your response is the Wolves should trade a 2nd team all defensive starting SF just to dump a player option Randle? How would you feel if someone went to your thread and said you should move Cade just to dump Harris?

[zeebneeb]

In terms of fit, Harris is much more suitable with Cade, then Randle ever will be, and the Pistons cough up a second to make them worse.

The Pistons screwed around for Cades first 3 years, providing ill fitting players, and with a new GM, and coach, discovered what works. You want them to go backwards?

I don't care if Randle is the obvious better talent in this trade. He absolutely will not, under any circumstance, fit alongside Cade Cunningham.

Now, if you want to cough up McDaniels for the honor of taking on Randle, then we can have a conversation.

The problem with Real GM’s trade board is takes like this. Randle is a positive value player. You don’t want him on your team so your response is the Wolves should trade a 2nd team all defensive starting SF just to dump a player option Randle? How would you feel if someone went to your thread and said you should move Cade just to dump Harris?

Hyperbole is not going to be your friend here. Comparing McDaniels to Cade is absurdity, and theater.

The point is, Randle does not fit with Cade, therefor,
if he has positive trade value, its not with Detroit.

Everyone understands the wolves cap issues. They have zero leverage, in any trade discussion.

For Minnesota, in trying to get back to where they were last year, before their horrendous KAT trade, they are not going to come out the other side, unscathed.

It's gonna cost, and its gonna hurt.

[winforlose]

In terms of fit, Harris is much more suitable with Cade, then Randle ever will be, and the Pistons cough up a second to make them worse.

The Pistons screwed around for Cades first 3 years, providing ill fitting players, and with a new GM, and coach, discovered what works. You want them to go backwards?

I don't care if Randle is the obvious better talent in this trade. He absolutely will not, under any circumstance, fit alongside Cade Cunningham.

Now, if you want to cough up McDaniels for the honor of taking on Randle, then we can have a conversation.

The problem with Real GM’s trade board is takes like this. Randle is a positive value player. You don’t want him on your team so your response is the Wolves should trade a 2nd team all defensive starting SF just to dump a player option Randle? How would you feel if someone went to your thread and said you should move Cade just to dump Harris?

Hyperbole is not going to be your friend here. Comparing McDaniels to Cade is absurdity, and theater.

The point is, Randle does not fit with Cade, therefor,
if he has positive trade value, its not with Detroit.

Everyone understands the wolves cap issues. They have zero leverage, in any trade discussion.

For Minnesota, in trying to get back to where they were last year, before their horrendous KAT trade, they are not going to come out the other side, unscathed.

It's gonna cost, and its gonna hurt.

Sorry but you clearly don’t know much about the Wolves cap situation. Randle has a player option. The Wolves at any time could bench and pull the shtick that other teams pull to get Randle not to opt in. Beyond that we are not even a tax paying team next year. Moreover the tax is not paid until the end of the season. So worst case, Randle opts in, you are betting against the Wolves being able to move him as an expiring. That requires some creative thinking on Randle’s value. He is averaging 18.9/7.3/4.5 without having missed a game. Plenty of teams will want that. As for no leverage, again, one year of tax and then done and the leverage is Randle has value and teams like winning. I suspect as much as you hate Randle, your GM would probably take the deal because you need more creators without Ivey.

Also to suggest dumping a 24 year old 2nd team all NBA defense McDaniels just to move a likely expiring Randle is non sensical. If you wanted to talk about Terrance Shannon that would be a more reasonable attach asset. But even then, that has to assume that Randle at 18.9/7.3/4.5 on shooting splits of 46.8/33.2/80.8 is not worth acquiring. Your first point that you don’t like the Cade and Randle fit is fine, everything after that is bizarre.

[zeebneeb]

The problem with Real GM’s trade board is takes like this. Randle is a positive value player. You don’t want him on your team so your response is the Wolves should trade a 2nd team all defensive starting SF just to dump a player option Randle? How would you feel if someone went to your thread and said you should move Cade just to dump Harris?

Hyperbole is not going to be your friend here. Comparing McDaniels to Cade is absurdity, and theater.

The point is, Randle does not fit with Cade, therefor,
if he has positive trade value, its not with Detroit.

Everyone understands the wolves cap issues. They have zero leverage, in any trade discussion.

For Minnesota, in trying to get back to where they were last year, before their horrendous KAT trade, they are not going to come out the other side, unscathed.

It's gonna cost, and its gonna hurt.

Sorry but you clearly don’t know much about the Wolves cap situation. Randle has a player option. The Wolves at any time could bench and pull the shtick that other teams pull to get Randle not to opt in. Beyond that we are not even a tax paying team next year. Moreover the tax is not paid until the end of the season. So worst case, Randle opts in, you are betting against the Wolves being able to move him as an expiring. That requires some creative thinking on Randle’s value. He is averaging 18.9/7.3/4.5 without having missed a game. Plenty of teams will want that. As for no leverage, again, one year of tax and then done and the leverage is Randle has value and teams like winning. I suspect as much as you hate Randle, your GM would probably take the deal because you need more creators without Ivey.

Also to suggest dumping a 24 year old 2nd team all NBA defense McDaniels just to move a likely expiring Randle is non sensical. If you wanted to talk about Terrance Shannon that would be a more reasonable attach asset. But even then, that has to assume that Randle at 18.9/7.3/4.5 on shooting splits of 46.8/33.2/80.8 is not worth acquiring. Your first point that you don’t like the Cade and Randle fit is fine, everything after that is bizarre.

Your the type that attacks everyone who doesn't agree with you. Fine, sounds great.

2 for 2 in this thread alone. Let's see if you can convince any other Piston fans to agree with taking on Randle, seeing as how you believe the Current GM would.

Good luck.

[daoneandonly]

No way can Minny turn Randle into that type of value

[tmorgan]

Randle is, in Minnesota, exactly what he was in New York: a durable, moderately efficient stat-stuffer that doesn’t fit well in a modern NBA offense. Sure, he can shoot a little, he sometimes passes out of doubles (and sometimes doesn’t), he brings enthusiasm and some nice bully ball at times, he’s not a problem in the locker room.

The issue with Randle is that there’s very few ways to unlock the guy and make him part of a winning team. First off, he needs a rim-protecting stretch five to play with, both to give him space to operate down low and to cover his ass for his mediocre defense. Second, he needs a point guard (or set of guards) willing to share playmaking responsibilities so he can do his bully-and-maybe-pass routine regularly.

I’m not saying Randle isn’t reliable or isn’t talented. But he’s a really bad fit in Detroit with a helio-type offense thru Cade and no stretch bigs except Tobias (who he’d replace) and Stewart (who he might fit ok with, but he’s our third big). Honestly, if the price isn’t too much, San Antonio sounds like a decent fit. But you’d need to be over Sochan, because Randle would cut his minutes.

[OutsidetheNBA]

Counter?

I don't really have one because I don't think Detroit wants to pay the cost to turn Tobias into Randle with how well their season is going. Which would put the onus on Minnesota to pay the difference.

But if I were trying I would take out the Detroit 1st and put in Dillingham to Chicago. He's buried for 2 years after this trade anyway so Minny would be wise to use his value in trade.

Pistons want to upgrade because of how well their season is going. Harris is not the guy you want in the dog days of April and into May. He is a good role player, but his game isn’t as dynamic or diverse as Randle’s. Your argument seems to focus on a low opinion of Randle. Yet I think his numbers especially as a play maker get ignored.

The Wolves are not burying Dilly in my suggestion. DDV is done for most or all of the season. When he comes back he should play 2/3 instead of PG. Turnover rate is too high, lack of offensive creation makes Rudy and Jaden less effective, and DDV is not good enough at drive and kick. White and Dilly split the PG and Conley goes on injury DNP-CD to fix his wrist before the post season, where he serves as valuable depth. Next year Mike is likely not a rotation player.

You seem to think Chicago is owed more value but won’t specify how much more. That is a bad recipe for negotiation.

Look at Randle's playoff game log. He's played two good playoff games in three series. That doesn't mean he'll always be bad in the playoffs, but Randle's selling point definitely isn't "wait until May."

As others have said, this is way short on value for the Bulls and the Pistons have no incentive to add value. The Wolves owe more. Dillingham is the most obvious way to pay it. Or maybe the Bulls always loved Leonard Miller or TSJ. Or maybe the Bulls are interested in taking 2nd place in the Wolves' future swapped picks. But they need to add quite a bit more.

[shrink]

Randle is, in Minnesota, exactly what he was in New York: a durable, moderately efficient stat-stuffer that doesn’t fit well in a modern NBA offense. Sure, he can shoot a little, he sometimes passes out of doubles (and sometimes doesn’t), he brings enthusiasm and some nice bully ball at times, he’s not a problem in the locker room.

The issue with Randle is that there’s very few ways to unlock the guy and make him part of a winning team. First off, he needs a rim-protecting stretch five to play with, both to give him space to operate down low and to cover his ass for his mediocre defense. Second, he needs a point guard (or set of guards) willing to share playmaking responsibilities so he can do his bully-and-maybe-pass routine regularly.

I’m not saying Randle isn’t reliable or isn’t talented. But he’s a really bad fit in Detroit with a helio-type offense thru Cade and no stretch bigs except Tobias (who he’d replace) and Stewart (who he might fit ok with, but he’s our third big). Honestly, if the price isn’t too much, San Antonio sounds like a decent fit. But you’d need to be over Sochan, because Randle would cut his minutes.

I wanted to give you special props for this post, and hold it as an example that’s going to make me try harder to be a better poster.

While I don’t agree with 100% of this (but most!), you presented your case clearly and I feel I have a better understanding of the Pistons’ perspective here. You did it in an informative way and there isn’t a hint of insult or animosity. That’s persuasive. And as a bonus, you added an additional idea to help improve the trade!

Well done.

[Billl]

From the pistons - yuck. I don't want any part of Randle. He's a ball dominant big that shoots a low percentage from the floor and from 3 and doesn't play any defense. He's basically the opposite of what the pistons would be looking to add. We could use another perimeter creator - emphasis on the perimeter part - but we don't need anyone taking 30 post/midrange touches a game.

**note - not claiming Tobias has more trade value, but randle is a horrible fit in detroit.

[DetroitSho]

Randle is, in Minnesota, exactly what he was in New York: a durable, moderately efficient stat-stuffer that doesn’t fit well in a modern NBA offense. Sure, he can shoot a little, he sometimes passes out of doubles (and sometimes doesn’t), he brings enthusiasm and some nice bully ball at times, he’s not a problem in the locker room.

The issue with Randle is that there’s very few ways to unlock the guy and make him part of a winning team. First off, he needs a rim-protecting stretch five to play with, both to give him space to operate down low and to cover his ass for his mediocre defense. Second, he needs a point guard (or set of guards) willing to share playmaking responsibilities so he can do his bully-and-maybe-pass routine regularly.

I’m not saying Randle isn’t reliable or isn’t talented. But he’s a really bad fit in Detroit with a helio-type offense thru Cade and no stretch bigs except Tobias (who he’d replace) and Stewart (who he might fit ok with, but he’s our third big). Honestly, if the price isn’t too much, San Antonio sounds like a decent fit. But you’d need to be over Sochan, because Randle would cut his minutes.

I wanted to give you special props for this post, and hold it as an example that’s going to make me try harder to be a better poster.

While I don’t agree with 100% of this (but most!), you clearly presented your case and I feel I have a better understanding of the Pistons’ perspective here. You did it in an informative way and there isn’t a hint of insult or animosity. That’s persuasive. And as a bonus, you added an additional idea to help improve the trade!

Well done.

Yeah that was a helluva post. I honestly have gone back and forth a hundred times about if swapping Tobias for Randle would be good, mostly because I can't stand how flimsy Tobias is at the slightest bit of contact and Randle thrives through contact. But this post reminded me exactly why it wouldn't be a good idea.

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