Wolves/Heat/Rockets, help balance this

[winforlose]

I was asked on the Wolves board to design a trade that sends Randle to Miami, Butler to Houston, and Jabari Smith Jr, to Minnesota. I was mindful of the Rockets hard cap under the first apron, and need to have enough money to backfill empty roster spots to get to 14.

Houston out: Jeff Green, Dillion Brooks, Jabari Smith Jr.
Houston in: Jimmy Butler

Miami out: Duncan Robinson, Jimmy Butler
Miami in: Julius Randle, Jeff Green, Dillion Brooks

Wolves out: Julius Randle
Wolves in: Duncan Robinson, Jabari Smith Jr.

Houston gets Butler without giving up FVV and disrupting the PG. Brooks, Jeff Green and JSJ are the minimum rotation disruption while adding Butler and completing the assignment.

Miami takes on Brooks money which they didn’t want. But Brooks is easier to move than Butler, and a solid player. Green is expiring and Randle is a solid return for Butler in a win now mode. Plus Miami gets off of Robinson’s bad money.

The Wolves likely say no. They don’t want Robinson’s money, and JSJ has a hand injury (left hand fracture,) that keeps him out for months. This is where the trade falls apart for me. I could add Eason from Houston as an incentive to take Robinson, but then Miami owes value to Houston. I can add picks, but then teams might say no. Any thoughts or ideas?

[daoneandonly]

There's no balancing it when Minny gets Jabari Smith Jr, there's not a scenario where Mia would want Randle over Jabari

[winforlose]

There's no balancing it when Minny gets Jabari Smith Jr, there's not a scenario where Mia would want Randle over Jabari

Maybe, but that is more difficult to figure out and leaves Robinson in Miami. Also with the hand injury, JSJ will be out and Miami badly wants to make the playoffs. Otherwise they give up 2 unprotected picks in the next 4 years.

[ecuhus1981]

I think that this idea has promise, although Houston claims they won't make a big move.

I would say remove Duncan and send Dillon straight to Minny, that's the only way I can justify them getting Smith.

[psman2]

At this point of the Butler saga I don't see anyone putting a Jabari level asset on the table for him. It would be Houston's floatsam (Adams, Green, Landale, Tate....not Brooks) and a late 1st or Whitmore. If Minny is interested in some that flotsam and that 1st(whitemroe) maybe Miami cuts them in.

But I don't really see the fit of Randle there so not sure why he is linked to Miami in the 1st place.

[winforlose]

At this point of the Butler saga I don't see anyone putting a Jabari level asset on the table for him. It would be Houston's floatsam (Adams, Green, Landale, Tate....not Brooks) and a late 1st or Whitmore. If Minny is interested in some that flotsam and that 1st(whitemroe) maybe Miami cuts them in.

But I don't really see the fit of Randle there so not sure why he is linked to Miami in the 1st place.

Miami has on multiple occasions inquired about Randle. There is a legit interest in him. Plus, Randle’s money expires this year or next which is what Riley said he wants. Finally this was the board assignment. Miami might not want JSJ while injured because of the playoff stakes. That is the premise I am working under.

As for the floatsam, that doesn’t work for Houston. The salaries are too small, Butler too large, and the hard cap under the first apron. You need to backfill a huge number of players and you gut the rotation. Brooks or FVV is the only realistic way you get Butler.

[winforlose]

I think that this idea has promise, although Houston claims they won't make a big move.

I would say remove Duncan and send Dillon straight to Minny, that's the only way I can justify them getting Smith.

Great suggestion. I didn’t realize the money would work, but it does. This is exactly the kind of suggestion I was looking for.

[CBA]

I think it’s pretty clear Jimmy Butler isn’t going to land an asset like Jabari Smith anymore. Dillon Brooks and a lottery-protected first is probably the best Miami could get from Houston.

[winforlose]

I think it’s pretty clear Jimmy Butler isn’t going to land an asset like Jabari Smith anymore. Dillon Brooks and a lottery-protected first is probably the best Miami could get from Houston.

You still need to make the money work without gutting the Rockets. Plus the market for Jimmy might be colder, but it isn’t dead. Someone will give something more valuable than Brooks for Jimmy.

I should have put this in the Jimmy containment thread. Let’s continue the discussion there!

[Texas Chuck]

I should have put this in the Jimmy containment thread. Let’s continue the discussion there!

I appreciate you remembering and offering that up. But discussion is already ongoing and it will get all mixed up now in that thread.

This is fine to stay here.

[winforlose]

I should have put this in the Jimmy containment thread. Let’s continue the discussion there!

I appreciate you remembering and offering that up. But discussion is already ongoing and it will get all mixed up now in that thread.

This is fine to stay here.

Cool. Thank you, and sorry again.

[jayjaysee]

Not saying Minnesota should, but they can help pay Houston here if they really want Jabari? They have a first that looks like it’ll convey in a decent spot this year..

[psman2]

At this point of the Butler saga I don't see anyone putting a Jabari level asset on the table for him. It would be Houston's floatsam (Adams, Green, Landale, Tate....not Brooks) and a late 1st or Whitmore. If Minny is interested in some that flotsam and that 1st(whitemroe) maybe Miami cuts them in.

But I don't really see the fit of Randle there so not sure why he is linked to Miami in the 1st place.

Miami has on multiple occasions inquired about Randle. There is a legit interest in him. Plus, Randle’s money expires this year or next which is what Riley said he wants. Finally this was the board assignment. Miami might not want JSJ while injured because of the playoff stakes. That is the premise I am working under.

As for the floatsam, that doesn’t work for Houston. The salaries are too small, Butler too large, and the hard cap under the first apron. You need to backfill a huge number of players and you gut the rotation. Brooks or FVV is the only realistic way you get Butler.

Sorry the money does work with just a small salary added to the players I listed. Might need to bring in some other teams for roster spots issues but the money on Houston/Miami side does work. Now maybe Houston doesn't want to enter the tax and will likely have to in order to fill their roster unless they move more money around. Maybe Brooks is added if tax avoidance is needed, but would still just be a smaller asset than Jabari included either way so they don't need to worry about his injury.

Legit interest is amusing. Most of what is leaked or reported is made up for engagement and just speculation.... stuff like according to reports...or sources said or "rival GMs speculate" means nothing most of the time. That or front offices leaking things to serve their best interests but have no real truth behind it, just spin. I think 90% of what makes it to twitter is either leaked talks on trades that went no where and are long dead or just flat out lies/speculation.

[BBallFreak]

I don't buy Miami's interest in Julius Randle thanks to the emergence of Kel'el Ware and Nikola Jovic. If this were a thing (it's not) I would cut out Minnesota and take the Houston package. Even if Smith is left out and Adams is put in, I'd do it.

Edit: I know Brooks's contract goes a year too long, but I'm sure we could offload him.

[LightTheBeam]

I honestly don't think the Rockets value Jabari a whole lot. His role has decreased, and without him Amen has broken out as a star. Eason is also more valuable based on team need, so I don't see that as a deal breaker, considering Houston cannot pay everyone. Minnesota should get cut out here though.

[winforlose]

At this point of the Butler saga I don't see anyone putting a Jabari level asset on the table for him. It would be Houston's floatsam (Adams, Green, Landale, Tate....not Brooks) and a late 1st or Whitmore. If Minny is interested in some that flotsam and that 1st(whitemroe) maybe Miami cuts them in.

But I don't really see the fit of Randle there so not sure why he is linked to Miami in the 1st place.

Miami has on multiple occasions inquired about Randle. There is a legit interest in him. Plus, Randle’s money expires this year or next which is what Riley said he wants. Finally this was the board assignment. Miami might not want JSJ while injured because of the playoff stakes. That is the premise I am working under.

As for the floatsam, that doesn’t work for Houston. The salaries are too small, Butler too large, and the hard cap under the first apron. You need to backfill a huge number of players and you gut the rotation. Brooks or FVV is the only realistic way you get Butler.

Sorry the money does work with just a small salary added to the players I listed. Might need to bring in some other teams for roster spots issues but the money on Houston/Miami side does work. Now maybe Houston doesn't want to enter the tax and will likely have to in order to fill their roster unless they move more money around. Maybe Brooks is added if tax avoidance is needed, but would still just be a smaller asset than Jabari included either way so they don't need to worry about his injury.

Legit interest is amusing. Most of what is leaked or reported is made up for engagement and just speculation.... stuff like according to reports...or sources said or "rival GMs speculate" means nothing most of the time. That or front offices leaking things to serve their best interests but have no real truth behind it, just spin. I think 90% of what makes it to twitter is either leaked talks on trades that went no where and are long dead or just flat out lies/speculation.

Houston is hard capped at the 1st apron, Miami is a 1st apron team and cannot take back more than they send out. Butler costs $48,798,677. Design a trade that doesn’t move anyone if significant value that works for both teams.

[shrink]

I honestly don't think the Rockets value Jabari a whole lot. His role has decreased, and without him Amen has broken out as a star. Eason is also more valuable based on team need, so I don't see that as a deal breaker, considering Houston cannot pay everyone. Minnesota should get cut out here though.

Yes, the riskiest thing is that whichever GM has Jabari needs to determine what his next extension should be.

Over the next four years, is he the guy that can be a star for ten days? Or will he be the guy who fades into the woodwork for many weeks at a time? Is he the guy you lock up a lot of payroll into? If he’s looking for a max deal ..?

[Kiss of Death]

Houston isn’t likely to make any major moves until possibly the off-season.
They aren’t going to re-sign Butler to the contract that he wants, so there’s no reason to give up anything much for him.

[shrink]

I don't buy Miami's interest in Julius Randle thanks to the emergence of Kel'el Ware and Nikola Jovic.

I understand your position, but from everything we hear from sources, actual interest is there. I wrote this elsewhere:

- One thing that many people ignore about Randle is the value of NBA fame. This guy is a regular All Star, and a two-time All NBA player. While many of us internet hoops wonks have never liked the guy, we aren’t the average, majority, ticket-buying fans. In the real world, GMs need to be able to sell their trades to the fans and to the owner, especially for teams with playoff ambitions. In a Jimmy trade, (or the KAT trade), Randle’s fame helps soften the blow for casual fans when a GM trades away an All Star player.

That said, I’m not trying to sell anyone on a Randle trade, and I suspect he won’t be traded.

- Personally, I think there is a chance, but a low one (maybe 25%), that Randle is traded by the deadline. He’s playing much better and he and the Wolves have finally gotten over their growing pains. I suspect Connelly and Finch aren’t eager to jump back into confusion, since we’re playing better and there are high win-now expectations for this team.

In the end, I suspect there were real world discussions, but both teams won’t find a trade, for reasons we have both expressed.

[ThatBoyNick]

I wouldn’t take Jimmy for free with Amens development. There’s no role for him here as a ball dominant non 3PT shooter between Sengun and Amen.

Jabari and Dillon are two of our best shooters on a team that has no spacing to spare. Just not close to working fit wise for us on court. Let alone giving value, or paying him.