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sackings916 wrote:Kings trade:
DeAaron Fox
Spurs trade:
Stephon Castle
Jeremy Sochan
Zach Collins
ATL 2025 1st
ATL 2027 1st
Why for Sac - they retool and get a haul for Fox
Why fot SA- they pair Wemby with Fox
zimpy27 wrote:I don't see Castle being involved. Castle plays SG and a Fox-Castle backcourt makes a lot of sense.
I think it's more likely to be Vassell+Sochan+Picks
Bentley1225 wrote:zimpy27 wrote:I don't see Castle being involved. Castle plays SG and a Fox-Castle backcourt makes a lot of sense.
I think it's more likely to be Vassell+Sochan+Picks
Vassel and Fox would be a great backcourt.
One_and_Done wrote:sackings916 wrote:Kings trade:
DeAaron Fox
Spurs trade:
Stephon Castle
Jeremy Sochan
Zach Collins
ATL 2025 1st
ATL 2027 1st
Why for Sac - they retool and get a haul for Fox
Why fot SA- they pair Wemby with Fox
Vast overpay.
Fox is a good fit next to Wemby, and I can see why Klutch wants him in SA. That Wemby money for one, and access to Wemby’s camp for another. The Kings, despite their recent turnaround, are not going anywhere. On the other hand, Wemby is looking like the next face of the NBA despite having just turned 21. It might actually be possible for Fox to win big with the Spurs, but more to the point he will be perceived as the Robin of a public team that will get him lots of endorsements and off-court fame. In Sactown he gets none of that.
However, the Spurs are not a knee-jerk organisation that makes stupid trades. They are a very conservative organisation that doesn’t overpay. The following other facts seem relevant:
- While Fox is a nice player, he’s more of an all-star calibre guy than an all-nba guy. He is shooting 32% from 3 this year, and his career average is 33%. That’s passable, but it’s not exactly the ideal for your primary ballhandler. He’s not a great defender, which is fine, but this isn’t the guy you sell the farm for. If this was Evan Mobley or even Devin Booker, then the price would be higher.
- Fox is 27. Wemby is 21. Given how much Fox relies on his speed and athleticism, things that you don’t tend to retain as you get to 30+, the value Fox brings to Wemby moving forward isn’t as big as it seems. Fox is almost certainly going to be overpaid on the backend of his next contract.
- Fox is a free agent in 2026. The Spurs could get him for nothing then. Yes, you don’t want to risk another team getting in, but it’s better to risk that than overpay. In the words of Billy Beane; ‘The day you say you have to do something, you are screwed. Because you are going to make a bad deal. You can always recover from the player you didn't sign. You may never recover from the player you signed at the wrong price’. I think Fox’s reps are motivated to get him to the Spurs, even if they have to wait till 2026.
I think there’s zero chance the Spurs move Castle, and honestly I doubt they’re terribly interested in moving Sochan either (and the Kings probably think he’s a bad fit next to Sabonis). Vassell is up and down, I could see the Spurs moving him, but not if they don’t have to. The idea would be to start him next to Fox long term. Realistically this package is a bunch of filler like Zach Collins, Tre Jones, maybe Keldon Johnson, and some picks. When I say “some” picks, I mean just that. The Spurs aren’t trading multiple lotto picks for a guy on the way out who could theoretically walk on them. Kings fans aren’t going to like that, and if they don’t they can keep him, but the Spurs are not the sort of team that makes hasty trades and overpays.
Personally, the sorts of picks I’d be comfortable conveying if I was the Spurs would be the Bulls pick, maybe a top 10 protected Spurs pick, and a Hawks pick with top 10/lotto protection. Take it or leave it, and revisit it closer to the 26 offseason when Fox’s value is far less.
OutsidetheNBA wrote:When was the last time the Spurs made an in-season trade to get better? They've taken salary dumps over the years and traded away good players occasionally (Derrick White), but as far as I can remember, they've never made an in-season trade to improve.
sackings916 wrote:One_and_Done wrote:sackings916 wrote:Kings trade:
DeAaron Fox
Spurs trade:
Stephon Castle
Jeremy Sochan
Zach Collins
ATL 2025 1st
ATL 2027 1st
Why for Sac - they retool and get a haul for Fox
Why fot SA- they pair Wemby with Fox
Vast overpay.
Fox is a good fit next to Wemby, and I can see why Klutch wants him in SA. That Wemby money for one, and access to Wemby’s camp for another. The Kings, despite their recent turnaround, are not going anywhere. On the other hand, Wemby is looking like the next face of the NBA despite having just turned 21. It might actually be possible for Fox to win big with the Spurs, but more to the point he will be perceived as the Robin of a public team that will get him lots of endorsements and off-court fame. In Sactown he gets none of that.
However, the Spurs are not a knee-jerk organisation that makes stupid trades. They are a very conservative organisation that doesn’t overpay. The following other facts seem relevant:
- While Fox is a nice player, he’s more of an all-star calibre guy than an all-nba guy. He is shooting 32% from 3 this year, and his career average is 33%. That’s passable, but it’s not exactly the ideal for your primary ballhandler. He’s not a great defender, which is fine, but this isn’t the guy you sell the farm for. If this was Evan Mobley or even Devin Booker, then the price would be higher.
- Fox is 27. Wemby is 21. Given how much Fox relies on his speed and athleticism, things that you don’t tend to retain as you get to 30+, the value Fox brings to Wemby moving forward isn’t as big as it seems. Fox is almost certainly going to be overpaid on the backend of his next contract.
- Fox is a free agent in 2026. The Spurs could get him for nothing then. Yes, you don’t want to risk another team getting in, but it’s better to risk that than overpay. In the words of Billy Beane; ‘The day you say you have to do something, you are screwed. Because you are going to make a bad deal. You can always recover from the player you didn't sign. You may never recover from the player you signed at the wrong price’. I think Fox’s reps are motivated to get him to the Spurs, even if they have to wait till 2026.
I think there’s zero chance the Spurs move Castle, and honestly I doubt they’re terribly interested in moving Sochan either (and the Kings probably think he’s a bad fit next to Sabonis). Vassell is up and down, I could see the Spurs moving him, but not if they don’t have to. The idea would be to start him next to Fox long term. Realistically this package is a bunch of filler like Zach Collins, Tre Jones, maybe Keldon Johnson, and some picks. When I say “some” picks, I mean just that. The Spurs aren’t trading multiple lotto picks for a guy on the way out who could theoretically walk on them. Kings fans aren’t going to like that, and if they don’t they can keep him, but the Spurs are not the sort of team that makes hasty trades and overpays.
Personally, the sorts of picks I’d be comfortable conveying if I was the Spurs would be the Bulls pick, maybe a top 10 protected Spurs pick, and a Hawks pick with top 10/lotto protection. Take it or leave it, and revisit it closer to the 26 offseason when Fox’s value is far less.
You are vastly underrating Fox. He’s not a great shooter or defender you are right, but you just glossed over the fact that he is a dominant scorer in the midrange and the paint. He’s a proven top 20 guy, and the deal would obviously be made with an extension. Could the Spurs wait? Yeah they could but Wemby is ready to go now and here they have an opportunity to get a top 20 guy locked up in his prime. Will they have an opportunity to get someone better? It’s a gamble vs a sure thing.
I don’t see how you can conclude Fox is going to be overpaid on the back of a 4 year contract that’s done when he’s 31-32? That’s a huge assumption to make and if he stays healthy too big of an assumption to make.
One_and_Done wrote:sackings916 wrote:One_and_Done wrote:Vast overpay.
Fox is a good fit next to Wemby, and I can see why Klutch wants him in SA. That Wemby money for one, and access to Wemby’s camp for another. The Kings, despite their recent turnaround, are not going anywhere. On the other hand, Wemby is looking like the next face of the NBA despite having just turned 21. It might actually be possible for Fox to win big with the Spurs, but more to the point he will be perceived as the Robin of a public team that will get him lots of endorsements and off-court fame. In Sactown he gets none of that.
However, the Spurs are not a knee-jerk organisation that makes stupid trades. They are a very conservative organisation that doesn’t overpay. The following other facts seem relevant:
- While Fox is a nice player, he’s more of an all-star calibre guy than an all-nba guy. He is shooting 32% from 3 this year, and his career average is 33%. That’s passable, but it’s not exactly the ideal for your primary ballhandler. He’s not a great defender, which is fine, but this isn’t the guy you sell the farm for. If this was Evan Mobley or even Devin Booker, then the price would be higher.
- Fox is 27. Wemby is 21. Given how much Fox relies on his speed and athleticism, things that you don’t tend to retain as you get to 30+, the value Fox brings to Wemby moving forward isn’t as big as it seems. Fox is almost certainly going to be overpaid on the backend of his next contract.
- Fox is a free agent in 2026. The Spurs could get him for nothing then. Yes, you don’t want to risk another team getting in, but it’s better to risk that than overpay. In the words of Billy Beane; ‘The day you say you have to do something, you are screwed. Because you are going to make a bad deal. You can always recover from the player you didn't sign. You may never recover from the player you signed at the wrong price’. I think Fox’s reps are motivated to get him to the Spurs, even if they have to wait till 2026.
I think there’s zero chance the Spurs move Castle, and honestly I doubt they’re terribly interested in moving Sochan either (and the Kings probably think he’s a bad fit next to Sabonis). Vassell is up and down, I could see the Spurs moving him, but not if they don’t have to. The idea would be to start him next to Fox long term. Realistically this package is a bunch of filler like Zach Collins, Tre Jones, maybe Keldon Johnson, and some picks. When I say “some” picks, I mean just that. The Spurs aren’t trading multiple lotto picks for a guy on the way out who could theoretically walk on them. Kings fans aren’t going to like that, and if they don’t they can keep him, but the Spurs are not the sort of team that makes hasty trades and overpays.
Personally, the sorts of picks I’d be comfortable conveying if I was the Spurs would be the Bulls pick, maybe a top 10 protected Spurs pick, and a Hawks pick with top 10/lotto protection. Take it or leave it, and revisit it closer to the 26 offseason when Fox’s value is far less.
You are vastly underrating Fox. He’s not a great shooter or defender you are right, but you just glossed over the fact that he is a dominant scorer in the midrange and the paint. He’s a proven top 20 guy, and the deal would obviously be made with an extension. Could the Spurs wait? Yeah they could but Wemby is ready to go now and here they have an opportunity to get a top 20 guy locked up in his prime. Will they have an opportunity to get someone better? It’s a gamble vs a sure thing.
I don’t see how you can conclude Fox is going to be overpaid on the back of a 4 year contract that’s done when he’s 31-32? That’s a huge assumption to make and if he stays healthy too big of an assumption to make.
Waterbug point guards tend to lose their speed by age 30, and Fox doesn't have great shooting to compensate. Westbrook is a good comp in terms of his decline arc.
sackings916 wrote:One_and_Done wrote:sackings916 wrote:
You are vastly underrating Fox. He’s not a great shooter or defender you are right, but you just glossed over the fact that he is a dominant scorer in the midrange and the paint. He’s a proven top 20 guy, and the deal would obviously be made with an extension. Could the Spurs wait? Yeah they could but Wemby is ready to go now and here they have an opportunity to get a top 20 guy locked up in his prime. Will they have an opportunity to get someone better? It’s a gamble vs a sure thing.
I don’t see how you can conclude Fox is going to be overpaid on the back of a 4 year contract that’s done when he’s 31-32? That’s a huge assumption to make and if he stays healthy too big of an assumption to make.
Waterbug point guards tend to lose their speed by age 30, and Fox doesn't have great shooting to compensate. Westbrook is a good comp in terms of his decline arc.
Lol. There is no 1 age that players “lose their speed”. This varies by player, and last I checked Westbrook is still a productive player in his mid 30s. Fox is also skilled and one of the strongest guards in the league. There are multiple examples of guards that are still productive well into their 30s.
One_and_Done wrote:sackings916 wrote:One_and_Done wrote:Waterbug point guards tend to lose their speed by age 30, and Fox doesn't have great shooting to compensate. Westbrook is a good comp in terms of his decline arc.
Lol. There is no 1 age that players “lose their speed”. This varies by player, and last I checked Westbrook is still a productive player in his mid 30s. Fox is also skilled and one of the strongest guards in the league. There are multiple examples of guards that are still productive well into their 30s.
Sure, but what we're talking about is what is likely. Chances are that Fox isn't going to be worth $50 mill post 30 years old.
BrianInPhilly wrote:I like the framework somewhat ... Of course Spurs would much prefer Vassell in deal over Castle but Kings prob would want Castle. If I'm Spurs though, I may entertain that as long as I get Keon Ellis or at least Devin Carter back (preferably Ellis). If Kings get Castle, they'd surely prioritize him over those 2 guys and if Spurs do roll with a Fox/Vassell backcourt, they'd need a guard defender off the bench. Personally I'm VERY HIGH on Keon Ellis, super underrated so if Spurs can add him to deal I'd consider Castle.
So trade would be something like:
Castle
Sochan
Zach Collins or Keldon Johnson
Picks
For
Fox
Ellis
(Len or McCLaughin or McDermott)
Spurs would still kind of be missing some forward punch so I'd also look to deal Tre Jones, Barnes, Champagne, Picks for some legit forward like Cam Johnson or make a play for a better 4' to balance out roster. But guard lineup of Fox, Vassell, and Ellis is very intriguing for the next 5 years.