Minor trade Wolves/Pels

[winforlose]

This must be done as two separate moves. They are a pair so please consider them as such.

Trade 1
Wolves out: Leonard Miller
Wolves in: Daniel Theis

Trade 2
Wolves out Josh Minott
Wolves in: Jose Alverado

Why for the Wolves: We need another PG, preferably a cheap one. Alverado fits that bill. This also fills basic need for a backup C. Clears some roster space for next season as well


Why for the Pels: Miller is a 2nd year player who has some interesting skill sets that could fit well behind Missi, but needs minutes to develop. Minott is already playing positive minutes but with limited stints and a coach that doesn’t give him nearly enough room. Pels get two young players to develop at low cost.

[balsamic_ducks]

The pels would do the 1st trade but I doubt they’d do the 2nd. They love Jose and the pels also need him to be their backup PG

[winforlose]

The pels would do the 1st trade but I doubt they’d do the 2nd. They love Jose and the pels also need him to be their backup PG

The whole point is Jose. We give two young players they have time to develop, and we get Jose and expiring passable C.

[psman2]

I think Miller likely still has enough intrigue around him for NOP to maybe pull the trigger here. I just don't know if NOP is going to see next year as a rebuilding year or not, losing your young cheap backup PG is not something most teams trying to win want to do.

[Godaddycurse]

Miller makes less than theis.. thats illegal isnt it

[winforlose]

Miller makes less than theis.. thats illegal isnt it

Each team has TPEs if necessary. Just checked, Theis via TPE, Miller just gets traded for space technically, but in reality it is one for one.

[psman2]

Miller makes less than theis.. thats illegal isnt it

Each team has TPEs if necessary. Just checked, Theis via TPE, Miller just gets traded for space technically, but in reality it is one for one.

Don't think Minny can use TPE over the 2nd apron.

[winforlose]

I think Miller likely still has enough intrigue around him for NOP to maybe pull the trigger here. I just don't know if NOP is going to see next year as a rebuilding year or not, losing your young cheap backup PG is not something most teams trying to win want to do.

True, but they are also getting Minott who has flashed potential as well. 21 year old 6’8 high motor player with 6’9 wingspan has value as well. Two cheap players to develop or move as they see fit.

[winforlose]

Miller makes less than theis.. thats illegal isnt it

Each team has TPEs if necessary. Just checked, Theis via TPE, Miller just gets traded for space technically, but in reality it is one for one.

Don't think Minny can use TPE over the 2nd apron.

Sorry this is incorrect. They can only use TPE’s created this year. Plus Spotrac says yes. It specifically found a TPE for both 2.5 and 4.7 million. Not sure why to be honest, though I assume it somehow relates to the KAT or Kyle trades.

[Texas Chuck]

I wouldn't give up Alvarado for those players, but maybe New Orleans sees something Minny and I don't? But I would think they could get 2nd rounders for him to pick their own prospects if they wanted to move him.

[MoneyTalks41890]

If Jose goes on the block I think he can get a late 1st. PG agitators are worth it imo.

[jayjaysee]

I think Jose is worth more than this. Especially as he’s signed cheap next season. Think it calls for the Utah 2nd? Maybe get a future 2nd back since the Utah second will be really good.

For making it legal, seems easy enough to dump Ingles on a 3rd team..

I think it’s something like have NOP pay cash to dump Ingles and make the trade Ingles/Minott/Utah 2nd for Theis/Alvarado.. Probably enough to get under tax, while they take a look at a lower end prospect with a good 2nd?

[winforlose]

I think Jose is worth more than this. Especially as he’s signed cheap next season. Think it calls for the Utah 2nd? Maybe get a future 2nd back since the Utah second will be really good.

For making it legal, seems easy enough to dump Ingles on a 3rd team..

I think it’s something like have NOP pay cash to dump Ingles and make the trade Ingles/Minott/Utah 2nd for Theis/Alvarado.. Probably enough to get under tax, while they take a look at a lower end prospect with a good 2nd?

That seems awfully steep for a player with an option in 26/27.

[jayjaysee]

I think Jose is worth more than this. Especially as he’s signed cheap next season. Think it calls for the Utah 2nd? Maybe get a future 2nd back since the Utah second will be really good.

For making it legal, seems easy enough to dump Ingles on a 3rd team..

I think it’s something like have NOP pay cash to dump Ingles and make the trade Ingles/Minott/Utah 2nd for Theis/Alvarado.. Probably enough to get under tax, while they take a look at a lower end prospect with a good 2nd?

That seems awfully steep for a player with an option in 26/27.

Yeah, the player option isn’t for next year? You get 1.5 years of dirt cheap play of a guy you’re comfortable playing 20+ mpg. He’s worth more than Minott by a decent amount imo.

And I think Theis can return a pretty meh/late second.

So it’s an early second and I don’t see Minnesota really having the value to make it work without it?

Maybe you can keep Minott and make the value work without him though if he’s the hold up. Send out Garza and Ingles..

[winforlose]

I think Jose is worth more than this. Especially as he’s signed cheap next season. Think it calls for the Utah 2nd? Maybe get a future 2nd back since the Utah second will be really good.

For making it legal, seems easy enough to dump Ingles on a 3rd team..

I think it’s something like have NOP pay cash to dump Ingles and make the trade Ingles/Minott/Utah 2nd for Theis/Alvarado.. Probably enough to get under tax, while they take a look at a lower end prospect with a good 2nd?

That seems awfully steep for a player with an option in 26/27.

Yeah, the player option isn’t for next year? You get 1.5 years of dirt cheap play of a guy you’re comfortable playing 20+ mpg. He’s worth more than Minott by a decent amount imo.

And I think Theis can return a pretty meh/late second.

So it’s an early second and I don’t see Minnesota really having the value to make it work without it?

Maybe you can keep Minott and make the value work without him though if he’s the hold up. Send out Garza and Ingles..

I just reread your post and got what I was missing before. Yeah I think the Wolves pass if they need the Utah 2nd out. I think Minott is a potential rotation players for the Pels. With Herb out and the tank on, Minott can play 30+ games with real minutes and develop. Losing a 7th or 8th man in Jose, for 7th or 8th man in Miller and an 8th or 9th in Minott seems fair. If you want a 2nd swap for next year against one of owned picks that might be something to consider.

[jayjaysee]

That seems awfully steep for a player with an option in 26/27.

Yeah, the player option isn’t for next year? You get 1.5 years of dirt cheap play of a guy you’re comfortable playing 20+ mpg. He’s worth more than Minott by a decent amount imo.

And I think Theis can return a pretty meh/late second.

So it’s an early second and I don’t see Minnesota really having the value to make it work without it?

Maybe you can keep Minott and make the value work without him though if he’s the hold up. Send out Garza and Ingles..

You forgot Miller. Miller is a perfect companion for both Messi and Zion as he is a floor spacing big with rebounding and speed. It is two prospects for 1.5 years of Jose. Now you want a high 2nd as well, I don’t think you are valuing the incoming players enough. Theis might get you a very late 2nd, but to what end? How many late 2nds are worth anything in actual NBA rotations. At best he is a two way, and again Minott and Miller are both potential rotation players next year for the Pels.

I didn’t include Miller because I don’t think he holds the value being assigned. So keep him. He’s an interesting prospect, but until he shows more I don’t think the value will match. He’s really young, but it’s his 2nd year and he has played 15 minutes and beat up the g-league.

If he’d be a good fit with Missi/Zion he’d be a good fit with Rudy/Naz long term assuming Randle walks this offseason..

The Utah 2nd is probably close to fair for Jose, close enough at least that I think the Theis/Minott swap makes it up.

Like I said. If the prospects are that valued, why not just try to pay with the Utah 2nd?

[winforlose]

Yeah, the player option isn’t for next year? You get 1.5 years of dirt cheap play of a guy you’re comfortable playing 20+ mpg. He’s worth more than Minott by a decent amount imo.

And I think Theis can return a pretty meh/late second.

So it’s an early second and I don’t see Minnesota really having the value to make it work without it?

Maybe you can keep Minott and make the value work without him though if he’s the hold up. Send out Garza and Ingles..

You forgot Miller. Miller is a perfect companion for both Messi and Zion as he is a floor spacing big with rebounding and speed. It is two prospects for 1.5 years of Jose. Now you want a high 2nd as well, I don’t think you are valuing the incoming players enough. Theis might get you a very late 2nd, but to what end? How many late 2nds are worth anything in actual NBA rotations. At best he is a two way, and again Minott and Miller are both potential rotation players next year for the Pels.

I didn’t include Miller because I don’t think he holds the value being assigned. So keep him. He’s an interesting prospect, but until he shows more I don’t think the value will match. He’s really young, but it’s his 2nd year and he has played 15 minutes. Understand, Minnesota has some really great bigs..

If he’d be a good fit with Missi/Zion he’d be a good fit with Rudy/Naz long term assuming Randle walks this offseason..

The Utah 2nd is probably close to fair for Jose, close enough at least that I think the Theis/Minott swap makes it up.

Like I said. If the prospects are that valued, why not just try to pay with the Utah 2nd?

I just edited my post before seeing this. I really like Jose, but the deeper I dive into him, he isn’t a 6th man. He can give you some decent pest defense and some decent PG play, but there is a reason he is cheap. If we had 3 years of control at a discount I would give you a 31-34 2nd pick. But with 1.5 years of control, I just don’t feel he is worth more than Minott and Miller. Each by themselves is probably worth a mid second or better.

[balsamic_ducks]

That seems awfully steep for a player with an option in 26/27.

Yeah, the player option isn’t for next year? You get 1.5 years of dirt cheap play of a guy you’re comfortable playing 20+ mpg. He’s worth more than Minott by a decent amount imo.

And I think Theis can return a pretty meh/late second.

So it’s an early second and I don’t see Minnesota really having the value to make it work without it?

Maybe you can keep Minott and make the value work without him though if he’s the hold up. Send out Garza and Ingles..

I just reread your post and got what I was missing before. Yeah I think the Wolves pass if they need the Utah 2nd out. I think Minott is a potential rotation players for the Pels. With Herb out and the tank on, Minott can play 30+ games with real minutes and develop. Losing a 7th or 8th man in Jose, for 7th or 8th man in Miller and an 8th or 9th in Minott seems fair. If you want a 2nd swap for next year against one of owned picks that might be something to consider.

Except Minott and Miller haven’t proven they are a 7th-9th man. Jose has. They’re nothing more than fliers right now

[jayjaysee]

You forgot Miller. Miller is a perfect companion for both Messi and Zion as he is a floor spacing big with rebounding and speed. It is two prospects for 1.5 years of Jose. Now you want a high 2nd as well, I don’t think you are valuing the incoming players enough. Theis might get you a very late 2nd, but to what end? How many late 2nds are worth anything in actual NBA rotations. At best he is a two way, and again Minott and Miller are both potential rotation players next year for the Pels.

I didn’t include Miller because I don’t think he holds the value being assigned. So keep him. He’s an interesting prospect, but until he shows more I don’t think the value will match. He’s really young, but it’s his 2nd year and he has played 15 minutes. Understand, Minnesota has some really great bigs..

If he’d be a good fit with Missi/Zion he’d be a good fit with Rudy/Naz long term assuming Randle walks this offseason..

The Utah 2nd is probably close to fair for Jose, close enough at least that I think the Theis/Minott swap makes it up.

Like I said. If the prospects are that valued, why not just try to pay with the Utah 2nd?

I just edited my post before seeing this. I really like Jose, but the deeper I dive into him, he isn’t a 6th man. He can give you some decent pest defense and some decent PG play, but there is a reason he is cheap. If we had 3 years of control at a discount I would give you a 31-34 2nd pick. But with 1.5 years of control, I just don’t feel he is worth more than Minott and Miller. Each by themselves is probably worth a mid second or better.

I don’t understand why if those prospects are seen that way, why not just keep them and send the early 2nd?

I don’t think they will be valued as that until they have proven to be closer to that.

[winforlose]

Yeah, the player option isn’t for next year? You get 1.5 years of dirt cheap play of a guy you’re comfortable playing 20+ mpg. He’s worth more than Minott by a decent amount imo.

And I think Theis can return a pretty meh/late second.

So it’s an early second and I don’t see Minnesota really having the value to make it work without it?


Maybe you can keep Minott and make the value work without him though if he’s the hold up. Send out Garza and Ingles..

I just reread your post and got what I was missing before. Yeah I think the Wolves pass if they need the Utah 2nd out. I think Minott is a potential rotation players for the Pels. With Herb out and the tank on, Minott can play 30+ games with real minutes and develop. Losing a 7th or 8th man in Jose, for 7th or 8th man in Miller and an 8th or 9th in Minott seems fair. If you want a 2nd swap for next year against one of owned picks that might be something to consider.

Except Minott and Miller haven’t proven they are a 7th-9th man. Jose has. They’re nothing more than fliers right now

Minott has played in the 8.5 role for 20+ games (30 total but some had garbage time.) Overall he has shown flashes of rebounding, driving, and strong individual defense. The biggest knock against him is team defense. His 3 point shot has been inconsistent this season, but that is a function of not getting enough run. In both summer league and preseason he showed he can shoot.

Miller is dominant in Summer league but that doesn’t always translate. His size and speed are things that cannot be taught.

End of the day it is a role player and expiring for 2 prospects. If the Pels FO think the prospects have potential and fit with their needs it is a good low cost move to acquire two potentially rotation worthy players. If not, then the Pels likely pass. I don’t think that Jose is worth those 2 plus more, and certainly not in the order of a high 2nd. Replacing the players and giving the high 2nd might make sense, but then the question is what do the Wolves do next season when roster space is an issue. Part of this trade’s function was to clear space for draft picks. Instead we just replace the 2nd with Jose. I think the Wolves probably value the pick over him, but I personally probably take the opposite view.