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esvl wrote:Jaden McDaniels
2nd 2025 (via Utah)

for

Marcus Smart
Vince Williams

Minnesota would add some solid playmaking skillset and two elite defenders in exchange for one. Vince looks like a good POA/PG next to Dillingham and Edwards long-term-wise. Smart can help right.

Memphis would leverage the rise of Wells and exchange their two elite POA/PGs for an elite young forward on a reasonable contract whose size allows to defend big wings.

winforlose wrote:This trade is so bad it is in lock it territory.

Texas Chuck wrote:As to the trade, I don't know that Memphis can afford to pay a guy as limited as McDaniels that much money. Maybe they owe a bit of value here, but probably not much. But I don't think they should invest the money in that specific player. For all the hype, his offense has never grown. And you can find limited offense defenders making much less money annually.

psman2 wrote:Jaden has turned a corner it looks like and would require quite a bit more value. Smart has lost most of his value and VWill is going to be undervalued since he hasn't played this season or played well for a winning team yet. Minny would need to really believe in a bounceback for both Smart and VWill and get more value here.

edit: Drop the 2nd and add Memphis 2025. That is likely closer here.

esvl wrote:

psman2 wrote:Jaden has turned a corner it looks like and would require quite a bit more value. Smart has lost most of his value and VWill is going to be undervalued since he hasn't played this season or played well for a winning team yet. Minny would need to really believe in a bounceback for both Smart and VWill and get more value here.

edit: Drop the 2nd and add Memphis 2025. That is likely closer here.

I am removing SRP from the MIN package

psman2 wrote:

esvl wrote:

psman2 wrote:Jaden has turned a corner it looks like and would require quite a bit more value. Smart has lost most of his value and VWill is going to be undervalued since he hasn't played this season or played well for a winning team yet. Minny would need to really believe in a bounceback for both Smart and VWill and get more value here.

edit: Drop the 2nd and add Memphis 2025. That is likely closer here.

I am removing SRP from the MIN package

Minny fans are going to not love it, they have placed a lot of faith in Jaden being much better than he has shown and really need to have him fulfil some of potential soon for them to have a chance going forward. Objectively VWill run last year as a starter was as impressive as anything Jaden has done so far in his career, but it was done on tanking team so he is going to be discredited/devalued until he shows it again while helping us win. And while VWill is a very good defender, he just doesn't have the size of Jaden to guard the bigger wings.

I don't think Jaden would fetch a lot more in trade than this if we were to add our 1st but Minny rather hold the course here still.

esvl wrote:

psman2 wrote:

esvl wrote:
I am removing SRP from the MIN package

Minny fans are going to not love it, they have placed a lot of faith in Jaden being much better than he has shown and really need to have him fulfil some of potential soon for them to have a chance going forward. Objectively VWill run last year as a starter was as impressive as anything Jaden has done so far in his career, but it was done on tanking team so he is going to be discredited/devalued until he shows it again while helping us win. And while VWill is a very good defender, he just doesn't have the size of Jaden to guard the bigger wings.

I don't think Jaden would fetch a lot more in trade than this if we were to add our 1st but Minny rather hold the course here still.

I can see that. From MIN’s perspective, I thought about playmaking skills that both of our guys could bring. While Jaden M. is a better size defender and more established player (compare to Vince), the combined effect of Smart and Vince was intended to give MIN more on the top of what they have in Conley/DiVin - namely shot creation and ball handling. Smart would take a leadership role for 1,5 seasons to give Dillingham and Vince time for development. I genuinely believe that the MIN starting line with Smart would not be worse than the one with Jalen.

psman2 wrote:

esvl wrote:

psman2 wrote:
Minny fans are going to not love it, they have placed a lot of faith in Jaden being much better than he has shown and really need to have him fulfil some of potential soon for them to have a chance going forward. Objectively VWill run last year as a starter was as impressive as anything Jaden has done so far in his career, but it was done on tanking team so he is going to be discredited/devalued until he shows it again while helping us win. And while VWill is a very good defender, he just doesn't have the size of Jaden to guard the bigger wings.

I don't think Jaden would fetch a lot more in trade than this if we were to add our 1st but Minny rather hold the course here still.

I can see that. From MIN’s perspective, I thought about playmaking skills that both of our guys could bring. While Jaden M. is a better size defender and more established player (compare to Vince), the combined effect of Smart and Vince was intended to give MIN more on the top of what they have in Conley/DiVin - namely shot creation and ball handling. Smart would take a leadership role for 1,5 seasons to give Dillingham and Vince time for development. I genuinely believe that the MIN starting line with Smart would not be worse than the one with Jalen.

I can see if for Minny too if Smart rebounds and VWill plays up to those 33 starts then Minny is likely a better team going forward. Vwill as a starting combo guard next to Ant could be a really good pairing. But those two players are still a big question marks. If Smart or VWill don't pan out for us then we just move on from Smart and flip him as an expiring next year and let the next man pass up VWill like Wells.... but Minny doesn't have the assets or depth to to really recover as well if those guys don't pan out.

Texas Chuck wrote:As to the trade, I don't know that Memphis can afford to pay a guy as limited as McDaniels that much money. Maybe they owe a bit of value here, but probably not much. But I don't think they should invest the money in that specific player. For all the hype, his offense has never grown. And you can find limited offense defenders making much less money annually.

Ethomasp31 wrote:

Texas Chuck wrote:As to the trade, I don't know that Memphis can afford to pay a guy as limited as McDaniels that much money. Maybe they owe a bit of value here, but probably not much. But I don't think they should invest the money in that specific player. For all the hype, his offense has never grown. And you can find limited offense defenders making much less money annually.

As a Wolves fan I think Winforlose overvalues Wolves players in trades often, but in this case I agree with him....there is no chance the Wolves trade McDaniels for that package. I don't think the Wolves will trade any core players unless they make a huge trade which would take a lot of maneuvering. Besides OKC, there isn't anyone in the West who I wouldn't like our chances against.

psman2 wrote:

esvl wrote:

psman2 wrote:Jaden has turned a corner it looks like and would require quite a bit more value. Smart has lost most of his value and VWill is going to be undervalued since he hasn't played this season or played well for a winning team yet. Minny would need to really believe in a bounceback for both Smart and VWill and get more value here.

edit: Drop the 2nd and add Memphis 2025. That is likely closer here.

I am removing SRP from the MIN package

Minny fans are going to not love it, they have placed a lot of faith in Jaden being much better than he has shown and really need to have him fulfil some of potential soon for them to have a chance going forward. Objectively VWill run last year as a starter was as impressive as anything Jaden has done so far in his career, but it was done on tanking team so he is going to be discredited/devalued until he shows it again while helping us win. And while VWill is a very good defender, he just doesn't have the size of Jaden to guard the bigger wings.

I don't think Jaden would fetch a lot more in trade than this if we were to add our 1st but Minny rather hold the course here still.

timeaftertime wrote:Not sure what the appeal would be for the Timberwolves. They give up one of the best on-ball and POA defenders in the league for an off-the-bench role player that can't stay healthy and a 24-year old development guy when they actually have a hard time getting minutes for their own development guys (Jaylen Clark and Terrance Shannon Jr, in particular, are both of the same ilk and younger).

They also have a pretty solid stable of guards, so I'm not sure how many minutes they even have for Smart between Conly, DiVincenzo, Dillingham, Ant, and NAW. I don't know that at this point in his career, Smart is a worthy addition to that rotation. Sure, he's almost certainly better than a guy like Dillingham at this point in his career, but Dillingham is a project that they're developing as a top ten prospect. He's better than Conley, but Conley is the team's emotional leader.

I could maybe see it if Smart was a better three point shooter, because the Wolves lack scoring, but Smart's shot is clearly behind all five rotation guards. This move also significantly hurts their defensive versatility. Smart can't guard bigger wings at this point in his career and if they have to slide Ant over that significantly hurts the Wolves for key playoff matchups like OKC.

McDaniels is also six years younger and the move doesn't represent any significant financial savings for the Wolves. The Wolves would save approximately $4 million this season and next. Then for the 26-27 season, they would be forced to either pay an aging Marcus Smart or have McDaniels, whose salary cap percentage will actually drop over the final three years of his deal due to the expected cap spike due to the new media deal. The final season of his deal, 2028-29 season, will see him playing for $30 million, but if we adjust that for "inflation" that's the equivalent of a $22 million deal this year, less than he's currently making.

shrink wrote:I would add that Connelly sees Jaden as a core piece, he’s quite close with Ant, and he really wants to be in Minnesota on this team, which is pretty important here.

zimpy27 wrote:

shrink wrote:I would add that Connelly sees Jaden as a core piece, he’s quite close with Ant, and he really wants to be in Minnesota on this team, which is pretty important here.

Didn't we hear the same.things about KAT?