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This happens if the Wolves fall short in the Playoffs.

WOLVES
In:D.Murray/S.Bey
Out:Randle/Conley/Pistons FRP25

The Wolves take advantage of Murray's injury, take the risk and buy low... on the court the fit with Ant is very good. Bey will be back next year...gives them depth on the Wing at a low cost

NOP
In:Smart/Conley/Pistons FRP25
Out:D.Murray

They will choose at the top of a draft loaded with talented guards, this move is a quiet reorganization, where they gain more long-term financial flexibility. and gets 2 highly valuable veterans as mentors to put alongside the young people. An attack dog who plays with all his heart and a veteran like Conley, who should help change that terrible culture and lack of competitiveness that persecutes NOP.. You also get a decent selection.

WIZARDS
In:Randle
Out:Smart/Bey

They get the best player in the deal, in a position of need as a tank general... to increase their value and burst at the next deadline

From the Wiz, I would say no. Randle is the best player but another veteran scorer who doesn't always put in the effort on the defensive end is the last thing this team needs. What Washington needs is more what Smart brings, a guy who can teach the youngsters how to play NBA level defense while leaving them the chance to develop their offensive games.

But we just dealt Kuzma, we don't need another player who is all about getting his touches. Also easier to trade the smaller contracts of Smart and Bey for young players or trash and picks than it is to move Randle for any value as NY and now Minnesota have found. Randle is definitely worth more to a team that needs him and if I thought we could actually get value for him at deadline, then I'd jump at this but I think that would be a hard deal to move.

Yup it would be a No from the Wiz. They got r\id of their empty stat PF thankfully, no reason to reverse course and get another one

I wouldn't call him empty stats, he made those Knick teams competitive for a while as their best player. But the combination of inside scoring and weak defense does not fit the offenses we (and most teams in the league) are trying to build.

He's a more consistent but less talented Zion, a player with similar issues.

daoneandonly wrote:Yup it would be a No from the Wiz. They got r\id of their empty stat PF thankfully, no reason to reverse course and get another one

Looking at it another way...if they can get the performance they got out of Kuzma at the upcoming deadline, that would be a win...(a pick trade + a recently drafted first round prospect)... I mean, isn't this what deep rebuilding teams are supposed to do?

Astaluego wrote:

daoneandonly wrote:Yup it would be a No from the Wiz. They got r\id of their empty stat PF thankfully, no reason to reverse course and get another one

Looking at it another way...if they can get the performance they got out of Kuzma at the upcoming deadline, that would be a win...(a pick trade + a recently drafted first round prospect)... I mean, isn't this what deep rebuilding teams are supposed to do?

But you also need to have good vets who play the game the right way around young impressionable rookies. Kyle Kuzma is a me first empty stats guy, only cares about his. Randle is of the same flock, dont need that around Sarr, Bub, and the upcoming guys

daoneandonly wrote:

Astaluego wrote:

daoneandonly wrote:Yup it would be a No from the Wiz. They got r\id of their empty stat PF thankfully, no reason to reverse course and get another one

Looking at it another way...if they can get the performance they got out of Kuzma at the upcoming deadline, that would be a win...(a pick trade + a recently drafted first round prospect)... I mean, isn't this what deep rebuilding teams are supposed to do?

But you also need to have good vets who play the game the right way around young impressionable rookies. Kyle Kuzma is a me first empty stats guy, only cares about his. Randle is of the same flock, dont need that around Sarr, Bub, and the upcoming guys

If you listen to interviews from/about Randle he’s actually a pretty team first guy. He tries to fit into the needs/role of the team.

Does he pound the ball a bit too much? For my tastes, yeah. But he’s also been fairly efficient with it too.

Not saying he is a huge difference maker but I think Julius is a positive contributor and his current teammates seem to like/respect him.

As for the trade in the OP, I’m not a huge fan of Murray’s fit on the Wolves. I’d probably keep looking or just keep my money free for other moves.

daoneandonly wrote:

Astaluego wrote:

daoneandonly wrote:Yup it would be a No from the Wiz. They got r\id of their empty stat PF thankfully, no reason to reverse course and get another one

Looking at it another way...if they can get the performance they got out of Kuzma at the upcoming deadline, that would be a win...(a pick trade + a recently drafted first round prospect)... I mean, isn't this what deep rebuilding teams are supposed to do?

But you also need to have good vets who play the game the right way around young impressionable rookies. Kyle Kuzma is a me first empty stats guy, only cares about his. Randle is of the same flock, dont need that around Sarr, Bub, and the upcoming guys

I think Randle is a better playmaker for others than Kuzma is. But I still agree that this wouldn't be a good fit for Washington. Randle's defense has been improving this year as its gone on (and he was healthy) but I'd be worried that on a young team not competing for the playoffs that effort would backslide again -- and those arent the lessons you want young guys to learn.

jscott wrote:

daoneandonly wrote:

Astaluego wrote:Looking at it another way...if they can get the performance they got out of Kuzma at the upcoming deadline, that would be a win...(a pick trade + a recently drafted first round prospect)... I mean, isn't this what deep rebuilding teams are supposed to do?

But you also need to have good vets who play the game the right way around young impressionable rookies. Kyle Kuzma is a me first empty stats guy, only cares about his. Randle is of the same flock, dont need that around Sarr, Bub, and the upcoming guys

If you listen to interviews from/about Randle he’s actually a pretty team first guy. He tries to fit into the needs/role of the team.

Does he bound the ball a bit too much? For my tastes? Yeah. But he’s also been fairly efficient with it too.

Not saying he is a huge difference maker but I think Julius is a positive contributor and his current teammates seem to like/respect him.

To add to that, Randle was flourishing the last month in MIN before his injury. He’d always been willing to share the ball, and would get plenty of assists when he’d drive underneath and kick out, and I read a stat somewhere that the three point percentage on his kick outs for catch-and-shoots was over 50%. However in the last month in MIN, Finch asked him to try a new role. He gave him a shorter stint as a starter, then brought him back early with the second unit - Naz, DDV, NAW. He was asked to be point forward with a fast-paced group, and he seemed to love it, and even played with more motivation on the defensive end.

That said, I would be concerned though in WAS that I would be getting “that” Randle. He loves and trusts Finch from their time together in NOP. I don’t know that WAS would even want him in that point forward role, and there certainly could be a regression back to the typical Randle. “Typical Randle” is very good at what he does, and has two “All NBA” awards to show for it, but even “Typical Randle” might not be what WAS wants, or what they’d get.

As other Wiz fans noted, hell no. We finally got rid of Kyle airball me first Kuzma. No need to go back there.

From first impressions, Smart is a great vet to have around who is D first. Bub, Kyshawn, Bilal, Sarr and co have a great defensive mentor to learn from.

Full disclosure, I have always been beating the drum about Dejounte Murray being a relatively low-impact player, so I'm already predisposed to not being crazy about the trade.

With that said, I just don't see why Minnesota would do this trade. While he was averaging 17.5/6.5/7.4, his shooting splits were a horrifying 39.3/29.9/82.3 with neutral to negative defense. Following a torn Achilles tendon, there is no way that he has positive trade value, at this point. New Orleans should be cut out of the deal.

Looking at Marcus Smart and Saddiq Bey for Julius Randle, I think that makes a bit more sense for Minnesota, though I'm not fully convinced. I tend to feel that Julius Randle is underrated, his skill as a facilitator is pretty impressive, particularly on drive and kicks (he has graded out as one of the top-five best in the NBA over the past few years). Mike Conley has declined a lot, but he's also a pretty valuable piece in the lockerroom; I think that he can still contribute as a highly stable backup point-guard.

From a roster balance perspective...

Donte DiVencenzo / Mike Conley / Rob Dillingham
Anthony Edwards / Nickeil Alexander-Walker (FA) / Jaylen Clark
Jaden McDaniels / Terrence Shannon Jr. / Josh Minott (probably waived)
Julius Randle / Naz Reid (FA) /
Rudy Gobert / Leonard Miller / Luka Garza (probably waived)

+Detroit's First

...makes a lot more sense than trading Julius Randle for Marcus Smart, even if Nickeil Alexander-Walker goes to another team in free-agency. Definitely not opposed to making a roster balancing trade, but I think it has to be a real upgrade or offer long-term flexibility.

Yeah, I'd pass.

Randle was coming around before his injury on both ends of the court, to the point where I'd honestly be interested in him sticking around long term if this is the version of him we're getting.

And I'm with Dome regarding Murray. He's had one great season in his entire career to this point and hasn't seemed to contribute to winning anywhere else. Maybe Finch can get more out of him but that's not a gamble that's worth taking, especially with his injury history and high usage play style.

So I think the biggest piece everyone is forgetting regarding Murray is that he blew out his achilles. If he ever becomes a positive player gain, it will be in the 26/27 season. I am super bummed about this because he played well with Zion (plus 8.5 NTG on a team with one of the worst NTGs in the league), and he fits really well with players like Trey and Missi (he can create penetration that can create space for shooters or lob options for bigs), and he's one of the only players Zion has ever played with that can throw a freaking entry pass.

He's a great third option because he can create his onw shot and he's big for his position, so its tough to hide your worst defender on him. Plus, even though he isn't a knock down shooter, he is willing to take the open three. He's not the defender he once was but he can guard his position and he's big enough to switch at least a little bit 1-3.

But having said all of that, he might play post all-star break next year and again he likely wont be 100% til 26-27.

lordjeff05 wrote:But having said all of that, he might play post all-star break next year and again he likely wont be 100% til 26-27.

Do you think the Pels may tank for a season in the tough West?

They own their own pick (and have a swap with MIL), sold Ingram, and will be missing Murray. If so, holding onto Murray seems like the better play.

What do you think?

shrink wrote:

lordjeff05 wrote:But having said all of that, he might play post all-star break next year and again he likely wont be 100% til 26-27.

Do you think the Pels may tank for a season in the tough West?

They own their own pick (and have a swap with MIL), sold Ingram, and will be missing Murray. If so, holding onto Murray seems like the better play.

What do you think?

It's definitely a possibility. I think it will depend a bit on the draft and how healthy Zion is for the rest of the year.

The thing is you have a really solid core, if you wanted to try and be a good team next year. Trey has emerged as second option level scorer, Herb is great and Zion is a top tier scorer (when healthy). You have a large expiring in CJ and all of your own draft capital plus the pick swaps with Milwaukee. In that scenario I could definitely see them make a play for point guard and center and try to compete next year.

On the other end of things, many fans are tired of the merry-go-round in Zion, and replacing both point center are a big deal. Putting assets in to a vet point guard is tough with the cap space taken up by Murray right now, and trying to get a high level center has issues because Missi is promising. But you can't go in to next year with Missi as your starter if you're expecting to be a playoff team, and the same applies if you try and just a get a stop gap point guard until Dejounte comes back.

Again I think Zion's year-end health will dictate the direction. But if they do blow it up, I hope they blow it all the way up, trade Herb and Trey and go all in on the rebuild. Those guys are just a little too old if you're drafting your centerpiece guy this year or next year.

lordjeff05 wrote:

shrink wrote:

lordjeff05 wrote:But having said all of that, he might play post all-star break next year and again he likely wont be 100% til 26-27.

Do you think the Pels may tank for a season in the tough West?

They own their own pick (and have a swap with MIL), sold Ingram, and will be missing Murray. If so, holding onto Murray seems like the better play.

What do you think?

It's definitely a possibility. I think it will depend a bit on the draft and how healthy Zion is for the rest of the year.

The thing is you have a really solid core, if you wanted to try and be a good team next year. Trey has emerged as second option level scorer, Herb is great and Zion is a top tier scorer (when healthy). You have a large expiring in CJ and all of your own draft capital plus the pick swaps with Milwaukee. In that scenario I could definitely see them make a play for point guard and center and try to compete next year.

On the other end of things, many fans are tired of the merry-go-round in Zion, and replacing both point center are a big deal. Putting assets in to a vet point guard is tough with the cap space taken up by Murray right now, and trying to get a high level center has issues because Missi is promising. But you can't go in to next year with Missi as your starter if you're expecting to be a playoff team, and the same applies if you try and just a get a stop gap point guard until Dejounte comes back.

Again I think Zion's year-end health will dictate the direction. But if they do blow it up, I hope they blow it all the way up, trade Herb and Trey and go all in on the rebuild. Those guys are just a little too old if you're drafting your centerpiece guy this year or next year.

I am curious what type of C you would want to pair with Zion? I would imagine you would need a floor spacer to make up for Zion’s lack of range. But I could also see someone dominate down low being an interesting old school 1-2 punch with Zion. What are your thoughts?

I am D.Murray hater and i would gladly do this even if he didnt tore achillies.

winforlose wrote:

lordjeff05 wrote:

shrink wrote:Do you think the Pels may tank for a season in the tough West?

They own their own pick (and have a swap with MIL), sold Ingram, and will be missing Murray. If so, holding onto Murray seems like the better play.

What do you think?

It's definitely a possibility. I think it will depend a bit on the draft and how healthy Zion is for the rest of the year.

The thing is you have a really solid core, if you wanted to try and be a good team next year. Trey has emerged as second option level scorer, Herb is great and Zion is a top tier scorer (when healthy). You have a large expiring in CJ and all of your own draft capital plus the pick swaps with Milwaukee. In that scenario I could definitely see them make a play for point guard and center and try to compete next year.

On the other end of things, many fans are tired of the merry-go-round in Zion, and replacing both point center are a big deal. Putting assets in to a vet point guard is tough with the cap space taken up by Murray right now, and trying to get a high level center has issues because Missi is promising. But you can't go in to next year with Missi as your starter if you're expecting to be a playoff team, and the same applies if you try and just a get a stop gap point guard until Dejounte comes back.

Again I think Zion's year-end health will dictate the direction. But if they do blow it up, I hope they blow it all the way up, trade Herb and Trey and go all in on the rebuild. Those guys are just a little too old if you're drafting your centerpiece guy this year or next year.

I am curious what type of C you would want to pair with Zion? I would imagine you would need a floor spacer to make up for Zion’s lack of range. But I could also see someone dominate down low being an interesting old school 1-2 punch with Zion. What are your thoughts?

I don't think they should, but KP/Zion would be a super fun couple.

winforlose wrote:

lordjeff05 wrote:

shrink wrote:Do you think the Pels may tank for a season in the tough West?

They own their own pick (and have a swap with MIL), sold Ingram, and will be missing Murray. If so, holding onto Murray seems like the better play.

What do you think?

It's definitely a possibility. I think it will depend a bit on the draft and how healthy Zion is for the rest of the year.

The thing is you have a really solid core, if you wanted to try and be a good team next year. Trey has emerged as second option level scorer, Herb is great and Zion is a top tier scorer (when healthy). You have a large expiring in CJ and all of your own draft capital plus the pick swaps with Milwaukee. In that scenario I could definitely see them make a play for point guard and center and try to compete next year.

On the other end of things, many fans are tired of the merry-go-round in Zion, and replacing both point center are a big deal. Putting assets in to a vet point guard is tough with the cap space taken up by Murray right now, and trying to get a high level center has issues because Missi is promising. But you can't go in to next year with Missi as your starter if you're expecting to be a playoff team, and the same applies if you try and just a get a stop gap point guard until Dejounte comes back.

Again I think Zion's year-end health will dictate the direction. But if they do blow it up, I hope they blow it all the way up, trade Herb and Trey and go all in on the rebuild. Those guys are just a little too old if you're drafting your centerpiece guy this year or next year.

I am curious what type of C you would want to pair with Zion? I would imagine you would need a floor spacer to make up for Zion’s lack of range. But I could also see someone dominate down low being an interesting old school 1-2 punch with Zion. What are your thoughts?

I've always wanted to pair Zion with a real floor spacer who can protect the rim. I wanted us to kick the tires on KP back when he was in Dallas and was making Minnesota offers the summer after they traded for Rudy. It's easier said than done because there are only a couple of guys who can play the 5 and you really have to honor their shot at the 5. All of them have their issues, either injury, or too slight to play the 5 all the time, or can't protect the rim or doesn't shoot aggressively enough form 3 or to old.

But that is the prototype. I still would love to bring in Mo Bamba and tell him I want you to do 3 things, shoot threes, block shots and rebound but given his disappointing history I realize that's a stretch.