Challenge: Build a team around Amen Thompson

[HadAnEffectHere]

The Rockets' best player is Amen Thompson, which is somewhat awkward because he's a clone of prime Ben Simmons who actually likes basketball. The Rockets have played well this year, but their complete lack of spacing is starting to badly harm them. Their three best players (Amen, Sengun, and Tari Eason) respectively shoot 27%, 23%, and 35% from three on low volume.

The 76ers never attempted to build a team around Ben Simmons as he was just much worse than Embiid, but we now have a team whose best player is basically Ben Simmons. How would you build around a player as talented and flawed as Amen Thompson?

[ReggiesKnicks]

I mean the problem with Houston isn't spacing, though that doesn't help. They don't have a star scoring player. Sengun isn't an offensive hub yet and green is wildly inconsistent while everyone else is a positive impact player in a vacuum and would be even more impactful if next to a true offensive hub.

They need to add a high-level perimeter shot creator. This is why the Devin Booker trade makes so much sense on so many levels for Houston. Even Durant at his age would help their offensive flow a ton.

There are also some things I disagree with here. "As talented and flawed as Thompson" is such a weird statement. Might as well say everyone but 3 players in the NBA are flawed since no player is perfect.

[HadAnEffectHere]

I mean the problem with Houston isn't spacing, though that doesn't help. They don't have a star scoring player. Sengun isn't an offensive hub yet and green is wildly inconsistent while everyone else is a positive impact player in a vacuum and would be even more impactful if next to a true offensive hub.

They need to add a high-level perimeter shot creator. This is why the Devin Booker trade makes so much sense on so many levels for Houston. Even Durant at his age would help their offensive flow a ton.

There are also some things I disagree with here. "As talented and flawed as Thompson" is such a weird statement. Might as well say everyone but 3 players in the NBA are flawed since no player is perfect.

Amen is the worst shooting starting forward in the league and is a top 3 athlete in the NBA, his strengths and weaknesses are far more extreme than most.

[ReggiesKnicks]

I mean the problem with Houston isn't spacing, though that doesn't help. They don't have a star scoring player. Sengun isn't an offensive hub yet and green is wildly inconsistent while everyone else is a positive impact player in a vacuum and would be even more impactful if next to a true offensive hub.

They need to add a high-level perimeter shot creator. This is why the Devin Booker trade makes so much sense on so many levels for Houston. Even Durant at his age would help their offensive flow a ton.

There are also some things I disagree with here. "As talented and flawed as Thompson" is such a weird statement. Might as well say everyone but 3 players in the NBA are flawed since no player is perfect.

Amen is the worst shooting PF in the league and is a top 3 athlete in the NBA, his strengths and weaknesses are far more extreme than most.

Jokic is a flawed center since he can't defend at a high level at the position requiring the most defense.
Trae Young is a flawed player since he can't defend.
Giannis is a non-shooting PF and only recently developed a shot beyond 3 feet.

I'd say there have been countless players who have had flaws like Amen.

[mcfly1204]

I mean the problem with Houston isn't spacing, though that doesn't help. They don't have a star scoring player. Sengun isn't an offensive hub yet and green is wildly inconsistent while everyone else is a positive impact player in a vacuum and would be even more impactful if next to a true offensive hub.

They need to add a high-level perimeter shot creator. This is why the Devin Booker trade makes so much sense on so many levels for Houston. Even Durant at his age would help their offensive flow a ton.

There are also some things I disagree with here. "As talented and flawed as Thompson" is such a weird statement. Might as well say everyone but 3 players in the NBA are flawed since no player is perfect.

Amen is the worst shooting PF in the league and is a top 3 athlete in the NBA, his strengths and weaknesses are far more extreme than most.

Jokic is a flawed center since he can't defend at a high level at the position requiring the most defense.
Trae Young is a flawed player since he can't defend.
Giannis is a non-shooting PF and only recently developed a shot beyond 3 feet.

I'd say there have been countless players who have had flaws like Amen.

What is Amen currently elite at besides being an athlete? Those other guys all provide something at an elite level, albeit one of them is not as effective/valuable as the others.

[NotACat]

I mean the problem with Houston isn't spacing, though that doesn't help. They don't have a star scoring player. Sengun isn't an offensive hub yet and green is wildly inconsistent while everyone else is a positive impact player in a vacuum and would be even more impactful if next to a true offensive hub.

They need to add a high-level perimeter shot creator. This is why the Devin Booker trade makes so much sense on so many levels for Houston. Even Durant at his age would help their offensive flow a ton.

There are also some things I disagree with here. "As talented and flawed as Thompson" is such a weird statement. Might as well say everyone but 3 players in the NBA are flawed since no player is perfect.

Amen is the worst shooting PF in the league and is a top 3 athlete in the NBA, his strengths and weaknesses are far more extreme than most.

Jokic is a flawed center since he can't defend at a high level at the position requiring the most defense.
Trae Young is a flawed player since he can't defend.
Giannis is a non-shooting PF and only recently developed a shot beyond 3 feet.

I'd say there have been countless players who have had flaws like Amen.

Jokic and Trae can score from anywhere on the court, while Amen is essentially restricted to the paint. This isn't about the defense, just his offensive limitations.

It took Giannis several years to get to where he is now. I think it makes sense for Houston to figure out how to maximize his output, especially early in his career and ideally fast forward his development.

[ReggiesKnicks]

Amen is the worst shooting PF in the league and is a top 3 athlete in the NBA, his strengths and weaknesses are far more extreme than most.

Jokic is a flawed center since he can't defend at a high level at the position requiring the most defense.
Trae Young is a flawed player since he can't defend.
Giannis is a non-shooting PF and only recently developed a shot beyond 3 feet.

I'd say there have been countless players who have had flaws like Amen.

What is Amen currently elite at besides being an athlete? Those other guys all provide something at an elite level, albeit one of them is not as effective/valuable as the others.

Elite defender, for one. Elite finisher around the rim. Elite at getting into the paint and collapsing a defense.

Remember he just turned 22 years old and is in his 2nd season. His ceiling is super high. He is already a Top 25 player by impact metrics.

I think the point I am trying to make is players who have superb athleticism, superb basketball skills and superb basketball IQ tend to be highly impacted, irregardless of what preconceived notions we have about players ability or skill or roll.

Is Amen ever going to be a Top 3 player like Giannis or Jokic? Probably not. But the list of players as good as he is in year 2 is incredible short.

[Astaluego]

I think Harden (even the current one) would be a blessing for this Houston team.. He's still an elite playmaker and I'm sorry (I'm probably not to blame for anything negative, but I'd trade Sengun for a Center who can protect the rim and doesn't need the ball)..

[Saints14]

The idea of Reed Sheppard is a perfect fit. They just need to hope he’s got more talent than he’s shown so far. I really liked him coming out of UK but it’s been a rough rookie year

[mcfly1204]

Jokic is a flawed center since he can't defend at a high level at the position requiring the most defense.
Trae Young is a flawed player since he can't defend.
Giannis is a non-shooting PF and only recently developed a shot beyond 3 feet.

I'd say there have been countless players who have had flaws like Amen.

What is Amen currently elite at besides being an athlete? Those other guys all provide something at an elite level, albeit one of them is not as effective/valuable as the others.

Elite defender, for one. Elite finisher around the rim. Elite at getting into the paint and collapsing a defense.

Remember he just turned 22 years old and is in his 2nd season. His ceiling is super high. He is already a Top 25 player by impact metrics.

I think the point I am trying to make is players who have superb athleticism, superb basketball skills and superb basketball IQ tend to be highly impacted, irregardless of what preconceived notions we have about players ability or skill or roll.

Is Amen ever going to be a Top 3 player like Giannis or Jokic? Probably not. But the list of players as good as he is in year 2 is incredible short.

The problem is that I have superb athleticism at the bottom of that list:

Superb basketball skills
Superb basketball IQ
...
Superb athleticism

I'm not trying to put a cap on Amen or anything, but is he capable of anchoring Houston's defense? Is he currently more than a 3rd or 4th option on offense? Can he be a central hub on offense? Promising young player, but he has a ways to go.

[babyjax13]

Just thinking about ideal pairings, I'd want a center who can stretch the floor and still provide some defensive resistance (think KP/Turner/Ware, Smith is a nice pairing too, but someone with more rim-deterrance) and a point guard with a lot of off-ball gravity but who can also run some PnR with Thompson (...I kinda like Trae for them? Sheppard could be this). For wings, someone who can interchange between the 3/4 pretty easily (Eason is honestly perfect) and then a shooting guard who can create his own shot that also has a lot of off-ball gravity and preferably some size.

Ware
Thompson
Eason
Booker
Young

Might be something that could maximize Thompson as he is now? I'm obviously not thinking about assets ATM and what it would take to create a similar team, but I think they could get some of these guys (Ware is probably the hardest).

[ReggiesKnicks]

Just thinking about ideal pairings, I'd want a center who can stretch the floor and still provide some defensive resistance (think KP/Turner/Ware, Smith is a nice pairing too, but someone with more rim-deterrance) and a point guard with a lot of off-ball gravity but who can also run some PnR with Thompson (...I kinda like Trae for them? Sheppard could be this). For wings, someone who can interchange between the 3/4 pretty easily (Eason is honestly perfect) and then a shooting guard who can create his own shot that also has a lot of off-ball gravity and preferably some size.

Ware
Thompson
Eason
Booker
Young

Might be something that could maximize Thompson as he is now? I'm obviously not thinking about assets ATM and what it would take to create a similar team, but I think they could get some of these guys (Ware is probably the hardest).

The other type of Center who historically has been good with players with incredibly high IQ and feel are lob threats like Capella (Harden), Lively/Gafford (Luka) and let's not forget LeBron making guys like Chris "Birdman" Andersen looking like an all-star.

Looking at the Giannis approach, Brook Lopez makes sense and Amen is enough of a help-side rim deterrent where he can cover any mobility issues (As Giannis did with Lopez during their overlapping primes).

Another approach is my Pacers with pace and space to make the game about transition and finding mismatches without a set defense and optimizing the shot clock to generate positive looks. This requires multiple ball handlers (Hali/Siakam/Nembhard/McConnell/Mathurin) offensively and defensively is all about increasing tempo and making the game speed up.

There are numerous ways to utilize Amen Thompson. The whole premise that he is in some box just means people aren't thinking beyond their own limited heuristics of NBA basketball.

[HadAnEffectHere]

What is Amen currently elite at besides being an athlete? Those other guys all provide something at an elite level, albeit one of them is not as effective/valuable as the others.

Elite defender, for one. Elite finisher around the rim. Elite at getting into the paint and collapsing a defense.

Remember he just turned 22 years old and is in his 2nd season. His ceiling is super high. He is already a Top 25 player by impact metrics.

I think the point I am trying to make is players who have superb athleticism, superb basketball skills and superb basketball IQ tend to be highly impacted, irregardless of what preconceived notions we have about players ability or skill or roll.

Is Amen ever going to be a Top 3 player like Giannis or Jokic? Probably not. But the list of players as good as he is in year 2 is incredible short.

The problem is that I have superb athleticism at the bottom of that list:

Superb basketball skills
Superb basketball IQ
...
Superb athleticism

I'm not trying to put a cap on Amen or anything, but is he capable of anchoring Houston's defense? Is he currently more than a 3rd or 4th option on offense? Can he be a central hub on offense? Promising young player, but he has a ways to go.

???

Amen's BBIQ and intangibles are elite. The issues are that his handle is so-so and his jumper is horrendous.

[mcfly1204]

Elite defender, for one. Elite finisher around the rim. Elite at getting into the paint and collapsing a defense.

Remember he just turned 22 years old and is in his 2nd season. His ceiling is super high. He is already a Top 25 player by impact metrics.

I think the point I am trying to make is players who have superb athleticism, superb basketball skills and superb basketball IQ tend to be highly impacted, irregardless of what preconceived notions we have about players ability or skill or roll.

Is Amen ever going to be a Top 3 player like Giannis or Jokic? Probably not. But the list of players as good as he is in year 2 is incredible short.

The problem is that I have superb athleticism at the bottom of that list:

Superb basketball skills
Superb basketball IQ
...
Superb athleticism

I'm not trying to put a cap on Amen or anything, but is he capable of anchoring Houston's defense? Is he currently more than a 3rd or 4th option on offense? Can he be a central hub on offense? Promising young player, but he has a ways to go.

???

Amen's BBIQ and intangibles are elite. The issues are that his handle is so-so and his jumper is horrendous.

Last I checked, one needs elite basketball skills... to be elite at basketball. He can't stretch the floor, so you need to surround him with shooters. He can't run your offense, so you need a facilitator who can also shoot. He's not a rim protector, so you need a defensive anchor... who can also shoot.

[HadAnEffectHere]

The problem is that I have superb athleticism at the bottom of that list:

Superb basketball skills
Superb basketball IQ
...
Superb athleticism

I'm not trying to put a cap on Amen or anything, but is he capable of anchoring Houston's defense? Is he currently more than a 3rd or 4th option on offense? Can he be a central hub on offense? Promising young player, but he has a ways to go.

???

Amen's BBIQ and intangibles are elite. The issues are that his handle is so-so and his jumper is horrendous.

Last I checked, one needs elite basketball skills... to be elite at basketball. He can't stretch the floor, so you need to surround him with shooters. He can't run your offense, so you need a facilitator who can also shoot. He's not a rim protector, so you need a defensive anchor... who can also shoot.

Yes, he's a clone of prime Ben Simmons with a higher motor, making him a very tricky player to build around.

[GeorgeMarcus]

Could have gone in different directions here, but came up with this:

Myles Turner
John Collins
Amen Thompson
Zach LaVine
Immanuel Quickley

The front court allows a nice blend of transition lob threats (where Amen feasts) and half court spacing to mitigate his lack thereof. Turner's rim protection gives leeway to defend more aggressively both on ball and in the passing lanes. LaVine ensures a volume scoring threat that can be relied on when the offense stagnates, and would be fun to watch playing off of Amen's dynamism. Quickley is a well-rounded PG who plays comfortably on or off ball, allowing more variety in point of attack.

[tmorgan]

Detroit’s dealing with the same issue, since we have basically the same player — Amen’s gotten more experience because of Ausar’s blood clot earlier, and Amen has more reps as a lead ball handler for OTE, but they share the same extreme strengths and weaknesses.

The difference right now is in the teams. Houston has considerably more B/B+ prospects that don’t have the ceiling of Amen, along with one unusual guy in Sengun that’s more than that but is also challenging to build around. Detroit has their alpha in Cade, who has a very different play style than Ausar, but they work well together for the most part.

We don’t have to “build around Ausar” because of Cade, and frankly, I don’t think Houston should either. Both guys can get some limited minutes as a wing-sized PG, pushing pace and so on, but you need a bunch of shooters for that to work, something Houston is apparently a bit short on right now. In the majority of minutes, Amen can play off-ball as a cutter and from the dunker’s spot, which again is most effective with a lot of shooting. Both teams are praying their guy becomes a passable shooter eventually. I know Ausar is pretty good at this crazy running, hanging short middie while dribbling across the free throw line, I dunno if Amen does that or not.

TLDR: I don’t know if you can really “build around” a guy like Amen right now. You can maximize his effectiveness on offense as above, and he’s certainly a terror on defense, but I think that may be it unless he becomes a legit ball-handler and passable shooter.

[mcfly1204]

???

Amen's BBIQ and intangibles are elite. The issues are that his handle is so-so and his jumper is horrendous.

Last I checked, one needs elite basketball skills... to be elite at basketball. He can't stretch the floor, so you need to surround him with shooters. He can't run your offense, so you need a facilitator who can also shoot. He's not a rim protector, so you need a defensive anchor... who can also shoot.

Yes, he's a clone of prime Ben Simmons with a higher motor, making him a very tricky player to build around.

Pump the brakes there a minute, Simons could legitimately run an offense.

[76thBearCub]

Challenge, is the correct word.

[ReggiesKnicks]

Last I checked, one needs elite basketball skills... to be elite at basketball. He can't stretch the floor, so you need to surround him with shooters. He can't run your offense, so you need a facilitator who can also shoot. He's not a rim protector, so you need a defensive anchor... who can also shoot.

Yes, he's a clone of prime Ben Simmons with a higher motor, making him a very tricky player to build around.

Pump the brakes there a minute, Simons could legitimately run an offense.

Anfernee Simons can't run an offense.