RealGM

The premise is that Zion is not motivated to play in NOP.

SPURS
In:Zion
Out: Castle/Barnes+ Hawks 25 FRP

Spurs bring together 2 generational stars, under 25 years old (in addition to Fox/Vassell) who fit like a glove

NOP
In: Castle/Barnes/Hawks FRP
Out:Zion

Season after season, derailed by injuries and seemingly little motivation from Zion to be in New Orleans, they take advantage of a strong end to the season to trade Zion and do a little restructuring. They get this season's most promising prospect and a lottery pick (to add to their own).

IMO this is a significant value overpay for Zion.

I also feel that Zion is a terrible target for the Spurs. You don't want a bunch of good Wemby seasons derailed by having a max contract guy in street clothes for the playoffs.

Zion is a better fit on teams that can just be bad on the years where he isn't helping.

giberish wrote:IMO this is a significant value overpay for Zion.

I also feel that Zion is a terrible target for the Spurs. You don't want a bunch of good Wemby seasons derailed by having a max contract guy in street clothes for the playoffs.

Zion is a better fit on teams that can just be bad on the years where he isn't helping.

Zion's injuries are not chronic at all and seem to be event-related... man on the court that duo is unstoppable, they are 2 potentially top 10 players in the league (being very modest) they could win the championship as early as next year

Zion is just not Spurs type of a player IMO, but the fit of Zion next to Wemby is lethal...

Astaluego wrote:

giberish wrote:IMO this is a significant value overpay for Zion.

I also feel that Zion is a terrible target for the Spurs. You don't want a bunch of good Wemby seasons derailed by having a max contract guy in street clothes for the playoffs.

Zion is a better fit on teams that can just be bad on the years where he isn't helping.

Zion's injuries are not chronic at all and seem to be event-related... man on the court that duo is unstoppable, they are 2 potentially top 10 players in the league (being very modest) they could win the championship as early as next year

I think they are weight related and will continue. I would be 100% against this for Spurs. I wouldn’t do Castle straight up for him, let alone adding another starter and a 1st. Zion is one of the riskier contracts in the league.

Zion is not worth a recent lotto pick.

Astaluego wrote:The premise is that Zion is not motivated to play in NOP.

SPURS
In:Zion
Out: Castle/Barnes+ Hawks 25 FRP

Spurs bring together 2 generational stars, under 25 years old (in addition to Fox/Vassell) who fit like a glove

NOP
In: Castle/Barnes/Hawks FRP
Out:Zion

Season after season, derailed by injuries and seemingly little motivation from Zion to be in New Orleans, they take advantage of a strong end to the season to trade Zion and do a little restructuring. They get this season's most promising prospect and a lottery pick (to add to their own).

Agree with the other feedback seems unlikely that NO could get that kind of return.

In the abstract though a Zion/Wemby combo where they are both fit and healthy is a kind of crazy awesome fit I'd never heard mentioned before so kudos on that piece.

As a Wemby fan this would be the worst possible outcome. A non-shooting forward who isn't an elite playmaker or ball handler doesn't seem like a good fit. How much can Zion play off ball. He's not going to space the floor so he's gotta have the ball in his hands.

Even if you ignore the health concerns I don't think the Spurs would do this

surprised by the answers, so Castle is more valuable than Zion???? I understand that he has missed many games, but that is the sole and exclusive reason why you have the opportunity to get a generational talent for this price... also the injury history invites to think that it is something that in a highly demanding and winning environment could be greatly alleviated... I see 2 scenarios, it doesn't work, for some reason he continues with his bad habits and wastes the opportunity for greatness and continues to get injured continuously (his contract is covered against injuries) you cut him and you wasted Castle and a selection... now imagine the other scenario...
Zion motivated and in shape along with Wemby has to be one of the most potent combos in history and they are 24 and 21 years old!!

Astaluego wrote:

giberish wrote:IMO this is a significant value overpay for Zion.

I also feel that Zion is a terrible target for the Spurs. You don't want a bunch of good Wemby seasons derailed by having a max contract guy in street clothes for the playoffs.

Zion is a better fit on teams that can just be bad on the years where he isn't helping.

Zion's injuries are not chronic at all and seem to be event-related... man on the court that duo is unstoppable, they are 2 potentially top 10 players in the league (being very modest) they could win the championship as early as next year

To the extent the event that triggers the injuries is *playing basketball,* that's a distinction without a difference. The Spurs are high on Castle (higher than warranted IMO). I can't see them including him.

jbk1234 wrote:

Astaluego wrote:

giberish wrote:IMO this is a significant value overpay for Zion.

I also feel that Zion is a terrible target for the Spurs. You don't want a bunch of good Wemby seasons derailed by having a max contract guy in street clothes for the playoffs.

Zion is a better fit on teams that can just be bad on the years where he isn't helping.

Zion's injuries are not chronic at all and seem to be event-related... man on the court that duo is unstoppable, they are 2 potentially top 10 players in the league (being very modest) they could win the championship as early as next year

To the extent the event that triggers the injuries is *playing basketball,* that's a distinction without a difference. The Spurs are high on Castle (higher than warranted IMO). I can't see them including him.

Also seems disingenuous to fail to mention that his “event related” injuries are exacerbated by him being chronically overweight

Astaluego wrote:surprised by the answers, so Castle is more valuable than Zion???? I understand that he has missed many games, but that is the sole and exclusive reason why you have the opportunity to get a generational talent for this price... also the injury history invites to think that it is something that in a highly demanding and winning environment could be greatly alleviated... I see 2 scenarios, it doesn't work, for some reason he continues with his bad habits and wastes the opportunity for greatness and continues to get injured continuously (his contract is covered against injuries) you cut him and you wasted Castle and a selection... now imagine the other scenario...
Zion motivated and in shape along with Wemby has to be one of the most potent combos in history and they are 24 and 21 years old!!

This proposal is downright insane. We have a 5 year track record of Zion missing half his games, never being available when it matters, struggling with weight, being dettached from the team as per his teammates, and being paid a max. I'd hesitate to even take him as a salary dump, I might because supposedly his contract has some stipulations that would allow the team to cut him, but this is a horrendous, horrendous idea, let alone moving Castle with him, who is just 20 and has shown a lot of promise... and se send a starter + a lottery pick as well? . You've proposed some reasonable trades in the past, this isn't one of them. Sorry.

gswhoops wrote:

jbk1234 wrote:

Astaluego wrote:Zion's injuries are not chronic at all and seem to be event-related... man on the court that duo is unstoppable, they are 2 potentially top 10 players in the league (being very modest) they could win the championship as early as next year

To the extent the event that triggers the injuries is *playing basketball,* that's a distinction without a difference. The Spurs are high on Castle (higher than warranted IMO). I can't see them including him.

Also seems disingenuous to fail to mention that his “event related” injuries are exacerbated by him being chronically overweight

The event that he's a lazy, fat ass bum.

wemby wrote:

Astaluego wrote:surprised by the answers, so Castle is more valuable than Zion???? I understand that he has missed many games, but that is the sole and exclusive reason why you have the opportunity to get a generational talent for this price... also the injury history invites to think that it is something that in a highly demanding and winning environment could be greatly alleviated... I see 2 scenarios, it doesn't work, for some reason he continues with his bad habits and wastes the opportunity for greatness and continues to get injured continuously (his contract is covered against injuries) you cut him and you wasted Castle and a selection... now imagine the other scenario...
Zion motivated and in shape along with Wemby has to be one of the most potent combos in history and they are 24 and 21 years old!!

This proposal is downright insane. We have a 5 year track record of Zion missing half his games, never being available when it matters, struggling with weight, being dettached from the team as per his teammates, and being paid a max. I'd hesitate to even take him as a salary dump, I might because supposedly his contract has some stipulations that would allow the team to cut him, but this is a horrendous, horrendous idea, let alone moving Castle with him, who is just 20 and has shown a lot of promise... and se send a starter + a lottery pick as well? . You've proposed some reasonable trades in the past, this isn't one of them. Sorry.

At the end of the day, Castle isnt as valuable as Zion. Maybe you dont want to include this year's pick (you should if it isnt top 3 imo) but withdrawing Castle from a Zion trade, I dont understand it. Now the Spurs probably dont share that sentiment but the larger point is that i dont think Zion is going to be had for pocket change. Say anything you want about him, but hes still 24, the talent is undeniable and you're omitting the fact that he's currently in the best shape of his NBA career. Saying you value him as a salary dump, I guarantee thats not how teams view him.

MossbergSwerve wrote:As a Wemby fan this would be the worst possible outcome. A non-shooting forward who isn't an elite playmaker or ball handler doesn't seem like a good fit. How much can Zion play off ball. He's not going to space the floor so he's gotta have the ball in his hands.

Even if you ignore the health concerns I don't think the Spurs would do this

Zion isnt an elite playmaker or ball handler? In what world? Zion fits perfectly with Wemby lol

I have more reasons to doubt Zion than to have faith in him, and I wouldn’t trade assets who appear to be a more sure thing than him.

Whenever Zion does get moved, he's gonna go for far less than the favorite for RoY on a rookie scale contract for 3 more seasons.

Funcrusher wrote:At the end of the day, Castle isnt as valuable as Zion. Maybe you dont want to include this year's pick (you should if it isnt top 3 imo) but Withdrawing Castle from a Zion trade, I dont understand it. Say anything you want about him, but the talent is undeniable and you're omitting the fact that he's currently in the best shape of his NBA career. Saying you value him as a salary dump is ridiculous, RealGM is so ass backwards on this topic.

What Zion? The one that is playing well today, or the one that has not played a meaningful game in years? I get it that you want to prop your guy but, for the Spurs, yeah, Castle is ABSOLUTELY more valuable than Zion because 1) you can count on him 2) he's 4 and a half years younger 3) he's under team control for 2 contracts (rookie + extension) 4) his ceiling is super high, but his floor is also high.

Again, leave Castle aside... Zion by himself may not even be worth the missed opportunities by taking in his salary. Maybe some team with difficulties attracting talent could take a chance on him, but the Spurs aren't it.

Funcrusher wrote:

MossbergSwerve wrote:As a Wemby fan this would be the worst possible outcome. A non-shooting forward who isn't an elite playmaker or ball handler doesn't seem like a good fit. How much can Zion play off ball. He's not going to space the floor so he's gotta have the ball in his hands.

Even if you ignore the health concerns I don't think the Spurs would do this

Zion isnt an elite playmaker or ball handler? In what world? Zion fits perfectly with Wemby lol

In the basketball world? Maybe there's a disconnect in the word "elite" here?

He's a non-shooting rim runner. He has literally 1 move and it's run at the opponent as hard as possible and dunk on them. It's really easy to stop in the playoffs.

He's a terrible fit next to Wemby. He can go put up 30 points a game for 1/4 seasons in Charlotte or something, or really anywhere that's not the Spurs. The Spurs are looking to compete for titles, not the lottery.

wemby wrote:

Funcrusher wrote:At the end of the day, Castle isnt as valuable as Zion. Maybe you dont want to include this year's pick (you should if it isnt top 3 imo) but Withdrawing Castle from a Zion trade, I dont understand it. Say anything you want about him, but the talent is undeniable and you're omitting the fact that he's currently in the best shape of his NBA career. Saying you value him as a salary dump is ridiculous, RealGM is so ass backwards on this topic.

What Zion? The one that is playing well today, or the one that has not play a meaningful game in years? I get it that you want to prop your guy, but for the Spurs yeah, Castle is ABSOLUTELY more valuable than Zion because 1) you can count on him 2) he's 4 and a half years younger 3) he's under team control for 2 contracts (rookie + extension) 4) his ceiling is super high, but his floor is also high.

Again, leave Castle aside... Zion by himself may not even be worth the missed opportunities by taking in his salary. Maybe some team with difficulties attracting talent could take a chance on him, but the Spurs aren't it.

Im not as high on Castle as you seem to be but fair enough. My larger point is that the Pels will not trade Zion if they dont get what they feel is a reasonable return (prospects/starters and 2-3 first round picks) If teams dont value him beyond a salary dump (which i dont think is true, although they probably dont value him as much as the pelicans do) then he isnt getting traded.