RealGM

This trade means both teams fall short in the playoffs...

KNICKS
In:Maxi/Knecht
Out: Robinson/Dadiet

You get a scorer/shooter still on a rookie contract and Maxi... Maxi would be an ideal archetype alongside KAT, although he could be finished, if so (very likely) it's just an expiring contract... that can be hung alongside some SRP to get you Lonzo or Clarkson. In this scenario the Knicks re-sign Achiuwa and a guy like Adams in FA to replace Mitch

LAKERS
In: Robinson/Dadiet
Out:Maxi/Knecht

Robinson gives them the archetype of player they're apparently looking for, a giant who dominates the boards... he has serious availability issues, but the Lakers, with a defense based on mobility and switches, can distribute him and use him in specific matchups. He fulfills the premise of expiring in 2026, so he doesn't deviate the Lakers from their plan of maximum spacing... Dadiet is very raw (compared to Knecht), but an archetype that fits better alongside Luka.

I’m not really sure what this does for the Knicks. It doesn’t help their two biggest needs - rim protection and secondary playmaking - and doesn’t create flexibility below the 2nd apron to use the full taxpayer MLE and resign Precious.

In this kind of trade concept, I’d prefer to see something like:

Mitch to the Lakers
Kleber and Kenecht to Raptors
Ochai Abajai and 2 2nd rd picks from Lakers to Knicks

Abajai is a better fit since he’s a 2-way player (while Toronto gets 2 extra years of rookie control) and NY clears $6mm in salary in the process.

No reason to trust Maxi less than Mitchell Robinson, but when healthy, Knicks should prefer Robinson, Knecht is a better player than Dadiet, but none is really anything to write home about, I think the Knicks will say no to this 1st, but both teams should be looking for more trusted options at positions of need.

R-DAWG wrote:I’m not really sure what this does for the Knicks. It doesn’t help their two biggest needs - rim protection and secondary playmaking - and doesn’t create flexibility below the 2nd apron to use the full taxpayer MLE and resign Precious.

You’ll have full bird rights on Precious this offseason. Yes, he was renounced last year, but you then re signed him and will have completed the season with him (meaning: he won’t have cleared waivers), so bird rights will be re established.

That doesn’t solve keeping salary levels low enough to stay under the 2nd apron for other moves, but does solve the salary tool with which to sign him.

If Pacome doesn't take a step I do expect him to get flipped for a rotation piece, but we need Mitch way more than another guard.

cgf wrote:If Pacome doesn't take a step I do expect him to get flipped for a rotation piece, but we need Mitch way more than another guard.

Unless it's a guard so good that he can step in for Brunson (if the latter gets injured) and hold the fort for several weeks. I.e., as this recent injury has exposed, with Randle gone we really do need a second, high-level play-maker on the team--the drop-off without Brunson is too severe right now.

That said, this trade doesn't improve the play-making situation while (as you note) it makes our defense even worse.

taikibansei wrote:

cgf wrote:If Pacome doesn't take a step I do expect him to get flipped for a rotation piece, but we need Mitch way more than another guard.

Unless it's a guard so good that he can step in for Brunson (if the latter gets injured) and hold the fort for several weeks. I.e., as this recent injury has exposed, with Randle gone we really do need a second, high-level play-maker on the team--the drop-off without Brunson is too severe right now.

That said, this trade doesn't improve the play-making situation while (as you note) it makes our defense even worse.

Fair addendum, and why I lamented there being no way for us to pick Kuzma up as a bench forward with some playmaking chops...but I just don't think there's a realistic path towards us getting that Quickley-replacement, and if there was, we should work out a three way that used our limited assets & capspace to turn that guard into a comparable wing instead. But I'm still not sure that would help more than having Mitch.

I think we just have to hope Karl is ready to mature as a decision-maker so we can run things through him as a playmaking hub in the highpost...like we did with iHart after Juju got hurt last season...that Kolek can become that more dynamic creator off the bench for us by next spring, and that Bridges can continue to scale up his self-creation in the midrange, even if he isn't backfilling much of the creation for others.

Luckily the skills are there all of that to happen; Towns is a much more skilled passer than Randle was, despite not being able to generate open looks for his team-mates as consistently, and (like Hartenstein was) KAT might have better touch & timing on his passes than anyone else on the roster; while drawing way more attention than iHart ever did. So if Thibs can get Karl to slow down as a decision maker, that could replace a lot of the play-making we've lost.

Similarly Kolek has shown impressive craftiness...if he can ever defend at an NBA level...and not just a quality stroke, so there's reason to hope that by next spring he'll be able to give us more than we're currently getting from Payne.

While Bridges has just been a midrange assassin, who can really feast on those Bridges-Hart PnR when centers drop off too much...like poor young Clingan did the other night. Those shots are almost like layups for Mikal, and if teams are going to try to hide more traditional centers on Hart, those shot should be there for us on a lot of possession

Plus Deuce has already developed a lot more offensively than I ever thought he would, and he has some floor-general instincts, so maybe if we do see that evolution from Karl, having Deuce & Hart as secondary playmakers would be enough to keep us afloat when Brunson is out...especially if Kolek is giving that second unit a spark.

Scoot McGroot wrote:

R-DAWG wrote:I’m not really sure what this does for the Knicks. It doesn’t help their two biggest needs - rim protection and secondary playmaking - and doesn’t create flexibility below the 2nd apron to use the full taxpayer MLE and resign Precious.

You’ll have full bird rights on Precious this offseason. Yes, he was renounced last year, but you then re signed him and will have completed the season with him (meaning: he won’t have cleared waivers), so bird rights will be re established.

That doesn’t solve keeping salary levels low enough to stay under the 2nd apron for other moves, but does solve the salary tool with which to sign him.

I'm curious about what cap-shennagins a team can do to minimize the caphit of their last two or three roster spots. Because that could be key to us being able to use the mini-MLE on someone, while retaining Precious on a salary that could be useful in trades if Mitch stays healthy / Hukporti takes a big step, without having to move Dadiet for a pick.

Not saying it would upgrade our A-game enough to beat the top 3 unless KATman & ROBINson lineups take us to a new level once they gel, but adding someone capable with the mini-MLE + a hopefully healthy (to start the season at least) Robinson, while flipping Dadiet for someone who is ready to play now, should help us stay fresher & bring our A-game more often.

Thibs gunna Thibs, but he's using his bench ~20% less than ever before this season, and ~30% less than he did before we started consolidating our depth two years ago.

cgf wrote:

Scoot McGroot wrote:

R-DAWG wrote:I’m not really sure what this does for the Knicks. It doesn’t help their two biggest needs - rim protection and secondary playmaking - and doesn’t create flexibility below the 2nd apron to use the full taxpayer MLE and resign Precious.

You’ll have full bird rights on Precious this offseason. Yes, he was renounced last year, but you then re signed him and will have completed the season with him (meaning: he won’t have cleared waivers), so bird rights will be re established.

That doesn’t solve keeping salary levels low enough to stay under the 2nd apron for other moves, but does solve the salary tool with which to sign him.

I'm curious about what cap-shennagins a team can do to minimize the caphit of their last two or three roster spots. Because that could be key to us being able to use the mini-MLE on someone, while retaining Precious on a salary that could be useful in trades if Mitch stays healthy / Hukporti takes a big step, without having to move Dadiet for a pick.

Not saying it would upgrade our A-game enough to beat the top 3 unless KATman & ROBINson lineups take us to a new level once they gel, but adding someone capable with the mini-MLE + a hopefully healthy (to start the season at least) Robinson, while flipping Dadiet for someone who is ready to play now, should help us stay fresher & bring our A-game more often.

Thibs gunna Thibs, but he's using his bench ~20% less than ever before this season, and ~30% less than he did before we started consolidating our depth two years ago.

In general, draft guys in the 2nd and sign them to deals at league minimum as a rookie or 1 year of service guy. Do the minimum roster spot dance that NY did this year to keep an extra spot or two open as long as possible.

If by Mini-MLE, you mean taxpayer MLE, that would hardcap you at 2nd apron, which you’re already only $11m below for next year with only 10 roster spots filled. I would think it would be EITHER Precious or the taxpayer MLE, definitely not both, as constructed. Mostly, the taxpayer MLE seems unlikely without a Mitchell salary dump?

Scoot McGroot wrote:

cgf wrote:

Scoot McGroot wrote:
You’ll have full bird rights on Precious this offseason. Yes, he was renounced last year, but you then re signed him and will have completed the season with him (meaning: he won’t have cleared waivers), so bird rights will be re established.

That doesn’t solve keeping salary levels low enough to stay under the 2nd apron for other moves, but does solve the salary tool with which to sign him.

I'm curious about what cap-shennagins a team can do to minimize the caphit of their last two or three roster spots. Because that could be key to us being able to use the mini-MLE on someone, while retaining Precious on a salary that could be useful in trades if Mitch stays healthy / Hukporti takes a big step, without having to move Dadiet for a pick.

Not saying it would upgrade our A-game enough to beat the top 3 unless KATman & ROBINson lineups take us to a new level once they gel, but adding someone capable with the mini-MLE + a hopefully healthy (to start the season at least) Robinson, while flipping Dadiet for someone who is ready to play now, should help us stay fresher & bring our A-game more often.

Thibs gunna Thibs, but he's using his bench ~20% less than ever before this season, and ~30% less than he did before we started consolidating our depth two years ago.

In general, draft guys in the 2nd and sign them to deals at league minimum as a rookie or 1 year of service guy. Do the minimum roster spot dance that NY did this year to keep an extra spot or two open as long as possible.

If by Mini-MLE, you mean taxpayer MLE, that would hardcap you at 2nd apron, which you’re already only $11m below for next year with only 10 roster spots filled. I would think it would be EITHER Precious or the taxpayer MLE, definitely not both, as constructed. Mostly, the taxpayer MLE seems unlikely without a Mitchell salary dump?

Yes, I was referring to using the taxpayer MLE & bringing Achiuwa back. Wouldn't the feasibility of that depend on what bringing him back would cost? Or was my assuming that that 11M didn't account for the 2.5M roster penalty spotrac listed, throwing my math off too much for even a discounted Precious-deal to be workable?

Last season he didn't have anyone offering him anything juicy and we arguably overpaid him on a 1-year deal to increase our trade flexibility. So if that's the case again this offseason, would it be unreasonable to expect him to take a paycut to come back on another 1-year deal that retained his bird rights for us to be able to re-sign him in '26...when we're almost certainly going to be a 2nd apron team anyway and so could either give him another inflated short term deal to compensate, or finally take care of him?


I think I read somewhere that unguaranteed deals don't count against the cap until sometime in january. If that was correct I was wondering if there are some games that can be played to fill those final 2-3 roster spots with just pro-rated minimum deals.

cgf wrote:

Scoot McGroot wrote:

cgf wrote:
I'm curious about what cap-shennagins a team can do to minimize the caphit of their last two or three roster spots. Because that could be key to us being able to use the mini-MLE on someone, while retaining Precious on a salary that could be useful in trades if Mitch stays healthy / Hukporti takes a big step, without having to move Dadiet for a pick.

Not saying it would upgrade our A-game enough to beat the top 3 unless KATman & ROBINson lineups take us to a new level once they gel, but adding someone capable with the mini-MLE + a hopefully healthy (to start the season at least) Robinson, while flipping Dadiet for someone who is ready to play now, should help us stay fresher & bring our A-game more often.

Thibs gunna Thibs, but he's using his bench ~20% less than ever before this season, and ~30% less than he did before we started consolidating our depth two years ago.

In general, draft guys in the 2nd and sign them to deals at league minimum as a rookie or 1 year of service guy. Do the minimum roster spot dance that NY did this year to keep an extra spot or two open as long as possible.

If by Mini-MLE, you mean taxpayer MLE, that would hardcap you at 2nd apron, which you’re already only $11m below for next year with only 10 roster spots filled. I would think it would be EITHER Precious or the taxpayer MLE, definitely not both, as constructed. Mostly, the taxpayer MLE seems unlikely without a Mitchell salary dump?

Yes, I was referring to using the taxpayer MLE & bringing Achiuwa back. Wouldn't the feasibility of that depend on what bringing him back would cost? Or was my assuming that that 11M didn't account for the 2.5M roster penalty spotrac listed, throwing my math off too much for even a discounted Precious-deal to be workable?

Last season he didn't have anyone offering him anything juicy and we arguably overpaid him on a 1-year deal to increase our trade flexibility. So if that's the case again this offseason, would it be unreasonable to expect him to take a paycut to come back on another 1-year deal that retained his bird rights for us to be able to re-sign him in '26...when we're almost certainly going to be a 2nd apron team anyway and so could either give him another inflated short term deal to compensate, or finally take care of him?


I think I read somewhere that unguaranteed deals don't count against the cap until sometime in january. If that was correct I was wondering if there are some games that can be played to fill those final 2-3 roster spots with just pro-rated minimum deals.

I just assume precious would get roughly what he got this year. And with only 10 roster spots filled, assumed that would make it tight. If Achiuwa takes a discount and basically signs for the minimum, that opens some flexibility, for sure.

As for as not counting against the cap, it’s exhibit 9 or exhibit 10 non guaranteed contracts, and they start counting against the cap on opening night, I believe. Basically, the league lets you fill out the training camp roster, even if you had no real means to keep them.

Scoot McGroot wrote:

cgf wrote:

Scoot McGroot wrote:
In general, draft guys in the 2nd and sign them to deals at league minimum as a rookie or 1 year of service guy. Do the minimum roster spot dance that NY did this year to keep an extra spot or two open as long as possible.

If by Mini-MLE, you mean taxpayer MLE, that would hardcap you at 2nd apron, which you’re already only $11m below for next year with only 10 roster spots filled. I would think it would be EITHER Precious or the taxpayer MLE, definitely not both, as constructed. Mostly, the taxpayer MLE seems unlikely without a Mitchell salary dump?

Yes, I was referring to using the taxpayer MLE & bringing Achiuwa back. Wouldn't the feasibility of that depend on what bringing him back would cost? Or was my assuming that that 11M didn't account for the 2.5M roster penalty spotrac listed, throwing my math off too much for even a discounted Precious-deal to be workable?

Last season he didn't have anyone offering him anything juicy and we arguably overpaid him on a 1-year deal to increase our trade flexibility. So if that's the case again this offseason, would it be unreasonable to expect him to take a paycut to come back on another 1-year deal that retained his bird rights for us to be able to re-sign him in '26...when we're almost certainly going to be a 2nd apron team anyway and so could either give him another inflated short term deal to compensate, or finally take care of him?


I think I read somewhere that unguaranteed deals don't count against the cap until sometime in january. If that was correct I was wondering if there are some games that can be played to fill those final 2-3 roster spots with just pro-rated minimum deals.

I just assume precious would get roughly what he got this year. And with only 10 roster spots filled, assumed that would make it tight. If Achiuwa takes a discount and basically signs for the minimum, that opens some flexibility, for sure.

As for as not counting against the cap, it’s exhibit 9 or exhibit 10 non guaranteed contracts, and they start counting against the cap on opening night, I believe. Basically, the league lets you fill out the training camp roster, even if you had no real means to keep them.

Ah gotcha.

And I meant more like a 3-4M deal for one year before getting hooked up the next.

cgf wrote:

Scoot McGroot wrote:

cgf wrote:
Yes, I was referring to using the taxpayer MLE & bringing Achiuwa back. Wouldn't the feasibility of that depend on what bringing him back would cost? Or was my assuming that that 11M didn't account for the 2.5M roster penalty spotrac listed, throwing my math off too much for even a discounted Precious-deal to be workable?

Last season he didn't have anyone offering him anything juicy and we arguably overpaid him on a 1-year deal to increase our trade flexibility. So if that's the case again this offseason, would it be unreasonable to expect him to take a paycut to come back on another 1-year deal that retained his bird rights for us to be able to re-sign him in '26...when we're almost certainly going to be a 2nd apron team anyway and so could either give him another inflated short term deal to compensate, or finally take care of him?


I think I read somewhere that unguaranteed deals don't count against the cap until sometime in january. If that was correct I was wondering if there are some games that can be played to fill those final 2-3 roster spots with just pro-rated minimum deals.

I just assume precious would get roughly what he got this year. And with only 10 roster spots filled, assumed that would make it tight. If Achiuwa takes a discount and basically signs for the minimum, that opens some flexibility, for sure.

As for as not counting against the cap, it’s exhibit 9 or exhibit 10 non guaranteed contracts, and they start counting against the cap on opening night, I believe. Basically, the league lets you fill out the training camp roster, even if you had no real means to keep them.

Ah gotcha.

And I meant more like a 3-4M deal for one year before getting hooked up the next.

That'd likely leave you with about $4-6m to use on a taxpayer mle and any possible roster churning?

Scoot McGroot wrote:

cgf wrote:

Scoot McGroot wrote:

I just assume precious would get roughly what he got this year. And with only 10 roster spots filled, assumed that would make it tight. If Achiuwa takes a discount and basically signs for the minimum, that opens some flexibility, for sure.

As for as not counting against the cap, it’s exhibit 9 or exhibit 10 non guaranteed contracts, and they start counting against the cap on opening night, I believe. Basically, the league lets you fill out the training camp roster, even if you had no real means to keep them.

Ah gotcha.

And I meant more like a 3-4M deal for one year before getting hooked up the next.

That'd likely leave you with about $4-6m to use on a taxpayer mle and any possible roster churning?

It will be interesting to see if Dadiet made enough progress to join the rotation next season. I think he's a promising prospect...better defensive instincts than I anticipated and his shot mechanics look solid...but if he doesn't take a step to become a rotation guy, I can see him getting moved for a future pick to create a little more wiggle room:

S: Brunson, Bridges, Hart, Anunoby, Towns
B: Payne*, McBride, MLE, Achiuwa, Robinson
D: Kolek*, Shamet, '25 SRP, Hukporti
2ways: McCullar / Beauchamp / Watson

cgf wrote:

Scoot McGroot wrote:

cgf wrote:
Ah gotcha.

And I meant more like a 3-4M deal for one year before getting hooked up the next.

That'd likely leave you with about $4-6m to use on a taxpayer mle and any possible roster churning?

It will be interesting to see if Dadiet made enough progress to join the rotation next season. I think he's a promising prospect...better defensive instincts than I anticipated and his shot mechanics look solid...but if he doesn't take a step to become a rotation guy, I can see him getting moved for a future pick to create a little more wiggle room:

S: Brunson, Bridges, Hart, Anunoby, Towns
B: Payne*, McBride, MLE, Achiuwa, Robinson
D: Kolek*, Shamet, '25 SRP, Hukporti
2ways: McCullar / Beauchamp / Watson

I can easily see Dadiet for a pick in the 31-35 range on draft night. NY can use that pick on a 4 year college guy who is more ready to contribute right away and save about 650k in the process.

This gives the Knicks the wiggle room to use most of the taxpayer MLE, resign Precious and retain his bird rights ($2.9mm), bring in one vet minimum, and round out the roster with their own 2nd rd pick. They would be dangerously close to the 2nd apron, but it’s workable.

My understanding is that the only way to retain Precious bird rights is to have all 2.9mm count against the hard cap.

R-DAWG wrote:

cgf wrote:

Scoot McGroot wrote:
That'd likely leave you with about $4-6m to use on a taxpayer mle and any possible roster churning?

It will be interesting to see if Dadiet made enough progress to join the rotation next season. I think he's a promising prospect...better defensive instincts than I anticipated and his shot mechanics look solid...but if he doesn't take a step to become a rotation guy, I can see him getting moved for a future pick to create a little more wiggle room:

S: Brunson, Bridges, Hart, Anunoby, Towns
B: Payne*, McBride, MLE, Achiuwa, Robinson
D: Kolek*, Shamet, '25 SRP, Hukporti
2ways: McCullar / Beauchamp / Watson

I can easily see Dadiet for a pick in the 31-35 range on draft night. NY can use that pick on a 4 year college guy who is more ready to contribute right away and save about 650k in the process.

This gives the Knicks the wiggle room to use most of the taxpayer MLE, resign Precious and retain his bird rights ($2.9mm), bring in one vet minimum, and round out the roster with their own 2nd rd pick. They would be dangerously close to the 2nd apron, but it’s workable.

My understanding is that the only way to retain Precious bird rights is to have all 2.9mm count against the hard cap.

I'm thinking more like the DET FRP we traded last summer. A trade asset that won't be on the books but could be interesting in a year or two.