RealGM

Toronto trade: Dick, 7th pick
Dallas trade: Lively, 13th pick

Why for Dallas: Trade up with Lively to nab PGOF (KJ or Fears?) and maybe future Klay replacement
Why for Toronto: Clear up SG glut and add a more nba ready back up C/future starter. Trades back to draft a big instead of reaching for one early on.

This is a pretty easy yes from Toronto. They have a good scouting department that'll get a good talent at 14th and solve their balance problem.

Poeltl / Lively / Chomche
Barnes / Mogbo / Bryant (13th)
Ingram / Agbaji
Barrett / Walter / Battle
Quickley / Shead / Proctor (40th)

I would be very happy with the talent and depth coming in next season.

Houston offers up pick (10-14) for Lively.

I like this for Toronto from the perspective of the building around Barnes/Ingram/RJ/Quickley and utilizing a "sum-of-the-parts" offense. However, from an outsider's view, I would prefer Toronto drafting a player with shot-creation and offensive upside at #7 rather than trading it for a player who doesn't provide the skill set.

Being comfortable with Toronto's on-ball creation makes this trade palpable for them. Doubting their upside makes this trade less interesting.

I don't think you'll find Lively level player at #7, but injury concern do play a factor in valuation.
The deal is off for the current Mavs who (wrongly) think they can compete.
If they decide to rebuild, and want to start from the PG position, Lively for #7 is a maybe for me, but I'd also hesitate.

Mavrelous wrote:I don't think you'll find Lively level player at #7, but injury concern do play a factor in valuation.
The deal is off for the current Mavs who (wrongly) think they can compete.
If they decide to rebuild, and want to start from the PG position, Lively for #7 is a maybe for me, but I'd also hesitate.

I think someone like fears would help mavs compete now and in the future more so than lively if they are keeping AD. I like that more than paying for someone like Sexton or Simons whom you have to pay a new contract to soon.

I wouldn't do it for the Mavs.. I'm also convinced that Fears/Johnson will be off the board at 7 and I like the fit of Jase Richardson who I assume will be in our range.

Astaluego wrote:I wouldn't do it for the Mavs.. I'm also convinced that Fears/Johnson will be off the board at 7 and I like the fit of Jase Richardson who I assume will be in our range.

think after the top 4 the next tier includes queen/KJ/Malauch/Fears/Johnson. There's a good chance at 7 that one of the guards you like will still be there

Hate to lose Dick as I still have faith, but this makes sense to me.

Godaddycurse wrote:

Mavrelous wrote:I don't think you'll find Lively level player at #7, but injury concern do play a factor in valuation.
The deal is off for the current Mavs who (wrongly) think they can compete.
If they decide to rebuild, and want to start from the PG position, Lively for #7 is a maybe for me, but I'd also hesitate.

I think someone like fears would help mavs compete now and in the future more so than lively if they are keeping AD. I like that more than paying for someone like Sexton or Simons whom you have to pay a new contract to soon.

There's a draft guru from Dallas that pushed for Fears b4 he shot up the boards, but Lively is a steep price to pay.

I think as a queen archetype she would fit better in Toronto and has a higher ceiling.

I get the logic for Dallas. Value is probably about right, though I don't think Dick holds as much value to Dallas as other teams with Klay/Christie locked up through his rookie deal and he shouldn't be sharing the court with either of them.

Not sure how else the Raps replace his value though. They won't want to include a future pick and 7 is too much to pay for Lively and Dallas isn't going to want to add a future pick either...

If there was a way to turn Dick into a young player with clearer opportunity or there was a team who liked him enough still to give a lotto protected first likely to actually convey and there was a player Dallas loved at 7, then okay sure.

Wouldn't do it in a vacuum though. Would absolutely be dependent on a specific player being on the board when Toronto picked. Not doing it for "prospect on tier X". Lively has demonstrated he can play well on the biggest stages. The only reason this would be considered is his injury concerns and the presence of AD/Gafford leaving Dallas in solid shape at center.

Texas Chuck wrote:I get the logic for Dallas. Value is probably about right, though I don't think Dick holds as much value to Dallas as other teams with Klay/Christie locked up through his rookie deal and he shouldn't be sharing the court with either of them.

Not sure how else the Raps replace his value though. They won't want to include a future pick and 7 is too much to pay for Lively and Dallas isn't going to want to add a future pick either...

If there was a way to turn Dick into a young player with clearer opportunity or there was a team who liked him enough still to give a lotto protected first likely to actually convey and there was a player Dallas loved at 7, then okay sure.

Wouldn't do it in a vacuum though. Would absolutely be dependent on a specific player being on the board when Toronto picked. Not doing it for "prospect on tier X". Lively has demonstrated he can play well on the biggest stages. The only reason this would be considered is his injury concerns and the presence of AD/Gafford leaving Dallas in solid shape at center.

Say the Phoenix pick lands anywhere from 9-12, would you trade Lively straight up for any of those selections?

I'm with the other DAL posters. Would say no to OP because we alredy have our Klay replacement in Christie.


Would TOR do 7 for Lively + O-Max (obviously depending on who's on the board at #7)?

aguiar95 wrote:I'm with the other DAL posters. Would say no to OP because we alredy have our Klay replacement in Christie.


Would TOR do 7 for Lively + O-Max (obviously depending on who's on the board at #7)?

No lively is not worth 7 and Omax is not meaningful incentive/is worth 2nds only.

I have lively worth closer to late lotto/mid 1st. Houston fans' offer is the upper end of what he would fetch.

Godaddycurse wrote:

aguiar95 wrote:I'm with the other DAL posters. Would say no to OP because we alredy have our Klay replacement in Christie.


Would TOR do 7 for Lively + O-Max (obviously depending on who's on the board at #7)?

No lively is not worth 7 and Omax is not meaningful incentive/is worth 2nds only.

I have lively worth closer to late lotto/mid 1st. Houston fans' offer is the upper end of what he would fetch.

Most players on rookie deals aren’t worth the pick that used to draft them. In this particular case I do think Lively is worth roughly the 10th pick, but I agree 7 is a stretch. I don’t think Dick gets you a lotto pick for example. Maybe he’s worth a pick in the 20-25 range, so your proposed trade is like the 10 + 13 for 7 + 22. It’s probably slightly in Toronto’s favor but it’s close. Good idea honestly.

What's about a base of

Gafford
Lively
Omax
13

For

Poeltl
Dick

Johnston wrote:What's about a base of

Gafford
Lively
Omax
13

For

Poeltl
Dick

Seems amazing for Toronto. No idea why Dallas would do this. Poeltl isn't worth Gafford/Lively and Dick isn't worth 13. Value seems pretty tilted to Toronto.

I think this is pretty fair value. Lively without Luka hasn't shown to be worth a top 10 pick (small sample size though), he's coming off a significant injury and Luka has a Chris Paul effect with bigs. He's gonna be on a minutes restriction so I don't know how much we'd be able to evaluate him on this new Mavs team next to AD

I think Lively is better than Gradey but not enough to be worth a lottery pick on its own, maybe if we had one out of the lottery itd be more enticing to do it straight up.

I think Dick and Christie is an intriguing future backcourt. Dick has size but has the build of a sg and Christie is a little of the opposite and can guard wings a fair bit. He would be coming off the bench to start as the Thompson replacement. At 7 they could also replace Lively with Queen or Khaman or go for a pg in Fears/Kasp/Jase who one will be available (and I doubt it at 13). In any case, the pick would be more ready to play if thats what they want and that would benefit Dallas who should be looking for low cost ready to play guys to compliment their older star players. At 13 you're getting another prospect, which is fine but doesn't fit their goals for next season.

Toronto gets a bench C who they can take their time getting back from the ankle injury without needing him to play in big games. Probably take a shot at Egor or Esssengue at 13 to round out the bench. I think if Toronto had sense they'd realize Walter should have Gradey's spot and would make a move like this to capitalize on his value before his next extension

I don't get why Lively's name keeps coming up...he's the only affordable, high-upside piece on DAL. I would think it'd have to be a really big get for them to even consider moving him. They did score big by obtaining Gafford but I'd only take calls on him if DAL believes they have an abundance of quality bigs.

Lively's upside is really high, imo