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Trying it again. Probably terrible?.. And this needs KD to be interested in Sac obviously*

Sac: Monk, Demar, Isaac Jones, 42nd, 2027 SAS first
Sac: KD

After this, Sac goes and finds a PG in free agency (one of the Jones) or use their TPE on one in a trade. Or trusts in Carter if you want that. But Sabonis/KD/Murray is worth putting together and trying out before the team chooses to blow it up?

Dallas: Gafford, Hardy, 2029 LAL first
Dallas: Monk and 29th

Dallas adds a guard that plays some defense and provides some playmaking. Felt like Gafford inclusion instead of Martin+? deserves some value back?

Phoenix: KD, 29th
Phoenix: Demar, Gafford, Hardy, Isaac Jones, 2027 SAS first, 2029 LAL first, 42nd

Phoenix gets two unprotected firsts and two guys that will start for KD? Once Beal opens up his trade destination list, maybe you look to bring in a star to pair with Book. Or you trade Booker to Houston at that point and try and open a 2 year window to rebuild.. picks that haven’t conveyed yet will help either of those goals?

Obviously this is mainly about does KD want Sacramento. If we say sure because its essential then:

Feels like great value for the Kings. Not sure about the defense, but that offense should be tough.
I'm just not sold on Monk for Dallas. I know Luka protects it, but I hate trading unprotected picks that far out for this level of a player.
Seems about as good as the Suns could hope for. 2 useful players and 2 picks with upside variance.

Texas Chuck wrote:Obviously this is mainly about does KD want Sacramento. If we say sure because its essential then:

Feels like great value for the Kings. Not sure about the defense, but that offense should be tough.
I'm just not sold on Monk for Dallas. I know Luka protects it, but I hate trading unprotected picks that far out for this level of a player.
Seems about as good as the Suns could hope for. 2 useful players and 2 picks with upside variance.

Yeah, I wanted to put minimal protection on it (roll it over to 2030 Dallas first) but was afraid of hearing how that protection killed the deal for Phoenix..

Maybe could’ve used 11th, but felt like an overpay with Gafford in there.

And I am probably wrong on Monk.

jayjaysee wrote:

Texas Chuck wrote:Obviously this is mainly about does KD want Sacramento. If we say sure because its essential then:

Feels like great value for the Kings. Not sure about the defense, but that offense should be tough.
I'm just not sold on Monk for Dallas. I know Luka protects it, but I hate trading unprotected picks that far out for this level of a player.
Seems about as good as the Suns could hope for. 2 useful players and 2 picks with upside variance.

Yeah, I wanted to put minimal protection on it (roll it over to 2030 Dallas first) but was afraid of hearing how that protection killed the deal for Phoenix..

Maybe could’ve used 11th, but felt like an overpay with Gafford in there.

And I am probably wrong on Monk.

Make it 11 instead with a klay for allen swap? Or phx send 29 back?

Godaddycurse wrote:

jayjaysee wrote:

Texas Chuck wrote:Obviously this is mainly about does KD want Sacramento. If we say sure because its essential then:

Feels like great value for the Kings. Not sure about the defense, but that offense should be tough.
I'm just not sold on Monk for Dallas. I know Luka protects it, but I hate trading unprotected picks that far out for this level of a player.
Seems about as good as the Suns could hope for. 2 useful players and 2 picks with upside variance.

Yeah, I wanted to put minimal protection on it (roll it over to 2030 Dallas first) but was afraid of hearing how that protection killed the deal for Phoenix..

Maybe could’ve used 11th, but felt like an overpay with Gafford in there.

And I am probably wrong on Monk.

Make it 11 instead with a klay for allen swap? Or phx send 29 back?

Was already taking 29 from Phoenix in OP.

Klay For Allen swap added would be worth making the OP 11 to me. Probably never results in Dallas winning a playoff series, but it’s a balanced roster through the pick debt.

There is zero chance KD wants to go to SacTown, so this is dead on arrival.

There is a gulf between rebuilding and contending for a title now

A 37 year old KD is meant for a team with a window now..

I will say though, this is one of the more realistic in terms of value I've seen for KD

Suns say no with extreme prejudice!
This trade ( aside from Gafford) makes absolutely no sense for the suns, and the value is no where near what they'd accept in a trade for KD whether people convince themselves of it or not. DeRozan makes no sense as a midrange shooter that can't space the floor. So more redundancy yet again.

And then Hardy who the suns wouldn't have any interest in when they need size, athleticism and defense. And Isaac Jones? And undrafted prospect averaging 3 points a game, when they could pick up a player like him easily from the undrafted pool. And the two firsts are likely to be mid to late teens to twenties at best. Yeah, thanks for the creativity, but no thanks.

The only real value in this trade to the suns would be Gafford. The rest is just other teams garbage and contracts they want to dump. And two mediocre 1sts. The suns will have numerous better offers from the multiple teams pursuing KD this summer.

BoogieTime wrote:There is a gulf between rebuilding and contending for a title now

A 37 year old KD is meant for a team with a window now..

I will say though, this is one of the more realistic in terms of value I've seen for KD

Of course a kings fan is gonna say they think it's realistic, because it significantly benefits the Kings while lowballing the suns for KD. Propose that same offer on the suns board to see how it's recieved. Ishbia would rather extend KD and just run things back than accept a low value return like the op.

And honestly, the whole age/ contract argument is so tired and played out considering KD at 37 is still putting up near triple double production on elite efficiency, and offering elite impact too. Not to mention he's just finished playing the most minutes he has in years too ( with respect to his age).

If the value threshold isn't met, the Suns will just look elsewhere or extend him and target 27 free agency when BOTH KD and Beal would come off the books giving the Suns well over 120+ million towards free agency.

But they won't be taking back other teams unwanted contracts, end of bench fillers/ two way undrafted players and 2 mediocre picks for KD no Matt how much team's Dan's want to convince themselves of such an outcome.

Ghost of Kleine wrote:

BoogieTime wrote:There is a gulf between rebuilding and contending for a title now

A 37 year old KD is meant for a team with a window now..

I will say though, this is one of the more realistic in terms of value I've seen for KD

Of course a kings fan is gonna say they think it's realistic, because it significantly benefits the Kings while lowballing the suns for KD. Propose that same offer on the suns board to see how it's recieved. Ishbia would rather extend KD and just run things back than accept a low value return like the op.

And honestly, the whole age/ contract argument is so tired and played out considering KD at 37 is still putting up near triple double production on elite efficiency, and offering elite impact too. Not to mention he's just finished playing the most minutes he has in years too ( with respect to his age).

If the value threshold isn't met, the Suns will just look elsewhere or extend him and target 27 free agency when BOTH KD and Beal would come off the books giving the Suns well over 120+ million towards free agency.

But they won't be taking back other teams unwanted contracts, end of bench fillers/ two way undrafted players and 2 mediocre picks for KD no Matt how much team's Dan's want to convince themselves of such an outcome.

Nothing is guaranteed after age 37. We’re lucky to be in the age of LeBron/Curry where it’s normalcy to see players performing at advanced ages, but at this age he can stop playing functional positive ball at anytime. Especially those with injury history

It’s a long term risk many have different reactions to, but I’d have to stop and think if I wanted to give up players with a lot of future ahead of them for such a gamble, but the gamble is for a contender

As a Dallas fan that wants the team to extend Gafford and trade Lively (some days.) .. Gafford is the third most valuable piece that Phoenix gets? The two picks are unprotected. Phoenix fans should know how that can vary.

Hardy and Jones are nonfactors meant for the end of the bench. They are needed in the trade to make it legal because the 37 year old KD makes so much. But they aren’t valued at anything, at all.

The OP fills 3 extra roster spot next season while trimming over 8 million dollars from total payroll for Phoenix. Wouldn’t focus too hard on the fact that they end up with new end of bench pieces.

BoogieTime wrote:

Ghost of Kleine wrote:

BoogieTime wrote:There is a gulf between rebuilding and contending for a title now

A 37 year old KD is meant for a team with a window now..

I will say though, this is one of the more realistic in terms of value I've seen for KD

Of course a kings fan is gonna say they think it's realistic, because it significantly benefits the Kings while lowballing the suns for KD. Propose that same offer on the suns board to see how it's recieved. Ishbia would rather extend KD and just run things back than accept a low value return like the op.

And honestly, the whole age/ contract argument is so tired and played out considering KD at 37 is still putting up near triple double production on elite efficiency, and offering elite impact too. Not to mention he's just finished playing the most minutes he has in years too ( with respect to his age).

If the value threshold isn't met, the Suns will just look elsewhere or extend him and target 27 free agency when BOTH KD and Beal would come off the books giving the Suns well over 120+ million towards free agency.

But they won't be taking back other teams unwanted contracts, end of bench fillers/ two way undrafted players and 2 mediocre picks for KD no Matt how much team's Dan's want to convince themselves of such an outcome.

Nothing is guaranteed after age 37. We’re lucky to be in the age of LeBron/Curry where it’s normalcy to see players performing at advanced ages, but at this age he can stop playing functional positive ball at anytime. Especially those with injury history

It’s a long term risk many have different reactions to, but I’d have to stop and think if I wanted to give up players with a lot of future ahead of them for such a gamble, but the gamble is for a contender

I understand your argument that you're trying to make. And under normal conditions that would logically heavily apply to most players his age. But the reason KD is still able to put up near MVP numbers on elite efficiency is because his game at this stage isn't predicated upon factors such as athleticism, physical dominance, speed, strength, etc.

His game is predicated on his elite skill and versatility and is relatively low impact in comparison to the majority of others players age related concerns. Durant leans into the finesse skill dominant aspects of his abilities with age slower and lose their effects at a much slower rate than the means attributed to the bulk of the rest of the players in the league.

If this were not so, then decline would have hit him much more rapidly and aggressively than what everyone is seeing now. In fairness, he may only have 2-3 years left, as father time is undefeated. And implied risks are a valid leverage point in lost every negotiation of potential value exchange.

But the implied risks are also mitigated by the same argument of KD only having one yr left as he'd not require a long term investment if he could no longer be impactful and put up the amazing production and efficiency that he currently is still doing.

So basically if he falls off a clif, then he doesn't have to be resigned. If he doesn't though and continues to show this remarkable production ( as he has so far), then thevrecieving team can negotiate a fair and amenable extension with whatever protections both parties deem fair.

But in terms of value exchange for this summer, he's shown nothing that doesn't indicate his still carrying premium value. And this is well substantiated by his production/ impact regardless of his age and given the very unbeneficial conditions he has played in due to our poor roster construction and short sighted lack of vision and overall negligence by our front office.

KD is still a superstar and putting up elite production/ efficiency and offering elite impact despite his age. And any arguments made to the contrary are really just strategic tactics by potential recieving teams to suppress his value and get a historically great talent for pennies on the dollar at the expense of Phoenixs' clown show front office.

And this is the very problem with having an arrogantly delusional compulsive owner and negligent front office is that it promotes a view of everyone being able to steamroll this franchise out of value while giving up only a fraction of equitable value in return. But that's not even negotiating in good faith, but rather just trying to glean assets and value from an unknowing or inexperienced front office.

But fortunately, Phoenix doesn't have to just give up KD for a pennies on the dollar return in a trade. KD has openly stated that he wants to stay here and loves playing with Booker. So they could and should just resign/ extend him rather than taking a significant value loss just to facilitate other teams interests in getting better. If the value thresholds are not met for the exchange, Phoenix will just look elsewhere or resign him and explore other mechanisms for improvement.

And those teams can also look elsewhere for their potential improvements. But Phoenix won't just take a significant value loss to move KD and won't pay ( by giving up it's very last remaining assets either) just to move KD because KD is not a negative value contract and is still a premium talent. And even our dimwitted compulsive owner recognizes this and has gone on record making this known.

If the equitable value isn't there, those teams just won't be getting KD then. So the value in the majority of these lowball trades being offered up at the expense of Phoenix will either improve dramatically or Phoenix will look elsewhere and some other team will land him or Phoenix will just keep him and let him retire here.

jayjaysee wrote:As a Dallas fan that wants the team to extend Gafford and trade Lively (some days.) .. Gafford is the third most valuable piece that Phoenix gets? The two picks are unprotected. Phoenix fans should know how that can vary.

Hardy and Jones are nonfactors meant for the end of the bench. They are needed in the trade to make it legal because the 37 year old KD makes so much. But they aren’t valued at anything, at all.

The OP fills 3 extra roster spot next season while trimming over 8 million dollars from total payroll for Phoenix. Wouldn’t focus too hard on the fact that they end up with new end of bench pieces.

The thing is though, Gafford isn't a centerpiece player in any trade. He's solid, but has nowhere near the value that KD has even at 37 yrs old. And he'd at best be an medial supplemental piece. Phoenix would view Lively as a higher value inclusion due to his age/ growth potential with our core.

Those two picks are very likely to at best be maybe in the late teens to 20s' barring some anomalous outcomes for the Lakers even in 29 because the leaguealelways ensures it'sflagship franchise and biggest market's competiyive viability, so they'll still very likely be a top 6 playoff team at worst.

And for San Antonio, Wemby will be back, still young, but just entering his prime alongside of Castle and they've just added Fox, have two very solid to great picks, are loaded with cap space and draft picks for the future, and one of those being a top 10 pick in a very good draft too.

They also have one of the best front office's in the entire NBA. So they have everything needed to build and sustain themselves at a very competitive level for the foreseeable future. So at worst by the time that pick actually hits, it'll likely also be at best a pick in the late teens to mid twenties.

Also, with regards to saving $8 million dollars in the trade, anyone who is familiar with our new owner should know that he doesn't care about the monetary aspect of trades and saving 8 million dollars really means nothing to him. Also, we can fall below the 2nd apron by just declining Milicics' team option and declining Cody Martin's expiring deal.

And could also get further under by virtue of trading Allen and O'neale for lesser contracts or expirings and buying those out or simply trading them for future draft assets or even draft assets in general.

KD is the best asset in the trade and honestly the crux value of the entire trade, yet Phoenix is getting back the lowest value of all three teams, getting other teams leftovers and/ or end of the bench unwanted contracts or minimal production/ fringe rotation end of bench players and two very mediocre outcome 1sts.

Everyone benefits from this trade EXCEPT PHOENIX!! The suns get worse overall giving up KD, and you have us giving up one of our few remaining draft picks ( 29) just to give up the best asset in the trade while downgrading significantly to the 42nd pick??

- Gafford.
Just isn't a centerpiece inclusion and not really anything more than a mid rotation level player and a salary filler type supplemental piece.

- DeRozan.
Phoenix wouldn't want because he's redundant to Booker and can't hit threes and space the floor and his value is questionable currently as is. Hes at best a big salary filler that wouldn't fit what Phoenix is trying to transition to competitively.

Hardy and Jones.
Hardy is young, and might have some potential, but he's a minimum end of the bench SG with an archetype/ skillset that any team can find in the 2nd round of the draft or even in the undrafted ranges if they choose to.

So his value is minimal at best. And Jones although an intriguing post player and potential defensive presence at 6'8- 6'9 (with a 7'3 wingspan) and good athleticism and mobility is still just potential and an end of bench minimum contract option in current established value. So two end of the bench unproven prospects.

LAL 29' 1st, SAS 27' 1st and 42nd pick ( CHI 25' 2nd via the Kings).
Again, The Lakers pick is very likely to end up in the late teens to mid twenties at best with their core of Luka, Knecht, Reeves, etc all entering their primes and along with their other pieces too. In addition to any more enormously and ridiculously beneficially engineered lopsided trades that miraculously happen for them in ths coming years that sustain the league's flagship franchise.

And similarly with the San Antonio 27' 1st with Wemby, Castle, Vassell, Sochan, etc all just barely entering their primes and also having Fox, a treasure trove of draft picks over the next decade and a ton of cap space to sign free agents and make even more trades. So at best, that San Antonio 1st is likely to be a pick in the late teens to mid twenties.

Ultimately every other team is getting premium value while Phoenix walks away with two pretty mid players with questionable value, two end of bench garbage time minimum salary young but still unproven prospects, and two very mediocre late 1sts. And Phoenix is giving up the best value in the trade and paying one of their few remaining assets just for the privilege of helping these other teams get better while they get worse.

Phoenix will be looking for 1-2 premium young athletic core players with intriguing upside potential to grow with their core, quality established vets with strong defensive, two way abilities/ toughness and tenacity (towards fostering a culture shift), salary fillers, and 2-3 solid 1sts ( not late 1sts). Solid like late lottery to 15 or 16 range.

Now I know that KD won't likely return all of those conditions. But at the very least, a few of those better threshbolds must be met) otherwise they won't trade him. And they'll shop him elsewhere.