RealGM

KINGS
In:Jrue/Jazquez
Out:DDR/Ellis

They get the guard and defensive leader they need and depth on the wing.

HEAT
In:DDR
Out: Rozier/Jazquez

Get the score you need and even save a few million.

BOSTON
In: Rozier/Ellis
Out:Jrue

With a roster that's financially unsustainable, they're opting out of Jrue's contract. Could they even use some of their FRP to send Rozier to the NETS to save more money or trade him due to Smart's expiration?

From the Celtics POV I don’t mind it. I like Keon Ellis and It clears enough money to reset the repeater clock in 2026/27 easily.
I don’t like a second go at Scary Terry. It would be great if he could be shipped to a 4th team with a minor asset to make it worth their while.
I think this is good for the Kings, though If I like Ellis they probably do as well.
I wonder about it for Miami. Do they view DDR as a positive and giving up Jaquez worth getting off Roziers expiring?

No interest in DDR

Id never forgive the Kings if we traded 24 year old Keon for 35 year old jrue holiday. We aren't going anywhere after this trade (or before). Keon is a fan favorite and the guy who works harder than anyone, id give a 1st before him. Let kings fans at least enjoy something lol

All these trades treating Keon like a throw-in for the Kings, are misguided. He’s 25, making only $2m, and ascending as a 3&D guard. The Kings wouldn’t trade him even if the value was fair. They would only trade him if it as a drastic overpay where they couldn’t refuse. This wouldn’t get it done. Jrue is the complete wrong type of player to add. We already tried adding an older player in DeRozan and it didn’t work. They’re not going to double down and add somebody even older than him. They’ll focus on getting younger.

Sactown33 wrote:All these trades treating Keon like a throw-in for the Kings, are misguided. He’s 25, making only $2m, and ascending as a 3&D guard. The Kings wouldn’t trade him even if the value was fair. They would only trade him if it as a drastic overpay where they couldn’t refuse. This wouldn’t get it done. Jrue is the complete wrong type of player to add. We already tried adding an older player in DeRozan and it didn’t work. They’re not going to double down and add somebody even older than him. They’ll focus on getting younger.

I don't think the DDR issue was, inherently, his age. If they were trying to rebuild than that would be an issue but that's very clearly and obviously not their organizational direction. They are a team trying to make the playoffs, whether you agree or disagree. The issue with DDR, in that context, is simply the style and caliber of player he is. He is a ball dominant iso scorer who isn't good enough to win much as a ball dominant iso scorer. It's a bad mix. Jrue is older, but stylistically he is a perfect fit for them. Exactly the type of PG you want next to LaVine.

There's definitely some value to iron out here. Is JJJ valued off his promising rookie season or his very disappointing last year with those two rookie contract years left? Jrue has an extra year on his deal compared to DDR and is more expensive so how does that close or eclipse the gap in on court value for them. And then, once you sort those two out, how does the combined value of JJJ and the DDR/Holiday net out compare to Ellis on an expiring deal before UFA or possibly a decline team option and extend candidate?

My guess is that SAC can accomplish something like this in a more fiscally prudent manner while holding on to Ellis. Probably takes attaching picks though, which may or may not be more determinantal to their future than losing a nice but limited player in Ellis.

hugepatsfan wrote:

Sactown33 wrote:All these trades treating Keon like a throw-in for the Kings, are misguided. He’s 25, making only $2m, and ascending as a 3&D guard. The Kings wouldn’t trade him even if the value was fair. They would only trade him if it as a drastic overpay where they couldn’t refuse. This wouldn’t get it done. Jrue is the complete wrong type of player to add. We already tried adding an older player in DeRozan and it didn’t work. They’re not going to double down and add somebody even older than him. They’ll focus on getting younger.

I don't think the DDR issue was, inherently, his age. If they were trying to rebuild than that would be an issue but that's very clearly and obviously not their organizational direction. They are a team trying to make the playoffs, whether you agree or disagree. The issue with DDR, in that context, is simply the style and caliber of player he is. He is a ball dominant iso scorer who isn't good enough to win much as a ball dominant iso scorer. It's a bad mix. Jrue is older, but stylistically he is a perfect fit for them. Exactly the type of PG you want next to LaVine.

There's definitely some value to iron out here. Is JJJ valued off his promising rookie season or his very disappointing last year with those two rookie contract years left? Jrue has an extra year on his deal compared to DDR and is more expensive so how does that close or eclipse the gap in on court value for them. And then, once you sort those two out, how does the combined value of JJJ and the DDR/Holiday net out compare to Ellis on an expiring deal before UFA or possibly a decline team option and extend candidate?

My guess is that SAC can accomplish something like this in a more fiscally prudent manner while holding on to Ellis. Probably takes attaching picks though, which may or may not be more determinantal to their future than losing a nice but limited player in Ellis.

I'm fine with this. I don't think Jrue is a bad target. Ownership/Management are terrible and have a winning mandate. Holiday is the type of player that helps us get to the playoffs. In an ideal world, I'd take 2 Holidays while giving up LaVine and Demar. but the 1st thing Sac should do this off-season is extend Keon, I'd have that as the mandate.

I personally think a Demar + cap savings for Jrue. Boston is going to be focused on getting out of a financial bind, so getting a guy who makes 8 million less + can be a 6th man -sounds like the right mix. Id suggest adding in a team like Dallas + a random 4th team

Boston out: Jrue
Boston in: Demar
Boston saves 8 million, promotes Horford or Pritchard to starter.

Kings out: Demar, Monk, 2 2nds
Kings in: Jrue, Marshall, Hardy
Jrue - LaVine - Marshall - Keegan - Sabonis
Carter - Keon - LaRavia* - JVal
Add 2 defenders to the roster, much better fits.

Dallas out: Hardy, Naji
Dallas in: Monk
Sacrifice some wing depth for a guard who can fill in for Kyrie. Monk/AD pick and roll would actually be really good.

4th team in: Powell + 2nd(s)
4th team out: Fake 2nd

LightTheBeam wrote:

hugepatsfan wrote:

Sactown33 wrote:All these trades treating Keon like a throw-in for the Kings, are misguided. He’s 25, making only $2m, and ascending as a 3&D guard. The Kings wouldn’t trade him even if the value was fair. They would only trade him if it as a drastic overpay where they couldn’t refuse. This wouldn’t get it done. Jrue is the complete wrong type of player to add. We already tried adding an older player in DeRozan and it didn’t work. They’re not going to double down and add somebody even older than him. They’ll focus on getting younger.

I don't think the DDR issue was, inherently, his age. If they were trying to rebuild than that would be an issue but that's very clearly and obviously not their organizational direction. They are a team trying to make the playoffs, whether you agree or disagree. The issue with DDR, in that context, is simply the style and caliber of player he is. He is a ball dominant iso scorer who isn't good enough to win much as a ball dominant iso scorer. It's a bad mix. Jrue is older, but stylistically he is a perfect fit for them. Exactly the type of PG you want next to LaVine.

There's definitely some value to iron out here. Is JJJ valued off his promising rookie season or his very disappointing last year with those two rookie contract years left? Jrue has an extra year on his deal compared to DDR and is more expensive so how does that close or eclipse the gap in on court value for them. And then, once you sort those two out, how does the combined value of JJJ and the DDR/Holiday net out compare to Ellis on an expiring deal before UFA or possibly a decline team option and extend candidate?

My guess is that SAC can accomplish something like this in a more fiscally prudent manner while holding on to Ellis. Probably takes attaching picks though, which may or may not be more determinantal to their future than losing a nice but limited player in Ellis.

I'm fine with this. I don't think Jrue is a bad target. Ownership/Management are terrible and have a winning mandate. Holiday is the type of player that helps us get to the playoffs. In an ideal world, I'd take 2 Holidays while giving up LaVine and Demar. but the 1st thing Sac should do this off-season is extend Keon, I'd have that as the mandate.

I personally think a Demar + cap savings for Jrue. Boston is going to be focused on getting out of a financial bind, so getting a guy who makes 8 million less + can be a 6th man -sounds like the right mix. Id suggest adding in a team like Dallas + a random 4th team

Boston out: Jrue
Boston in: Demar
Boston saves 8 million, promotes Horford or Pritchard to starter.

Kings out: Demar, Monk, 2 2nds
Kings in: Jrue, Marshall, Hardy
Jrue - LaVine - Marshall - Keegan - Sabonis
Carter - Keon - LaRavia* - JVal
Add 2 defenders to the roster, much better fits.

Dallas out: Hardy, Naji
Dallas in: Monk
Sacrifice some wing depth for a guard who can fill in for Kyrie. Monk/AD pick and roll would actually be really good.

4th team in: Powell + 2nd(s)
4th team out: Fake 2nd

BOS won't want anything to do with DDR. Still leaves them deep in the 2nd apron this year and still over the luxury tax for 2026-27. If they move Jrue it's going to be a deal that allows them to avoid the luxury tax in 2026-27 and reset their repeater rates, IMO. That's more important for their long term financial stability than next year's tax bill. Jrue for DDR doesn't fix the long term for them and just makes them way worse next year because they go from a perfect fitting piece to a trash fit.

hugepatsfan wrote:

LightTheBeam wrote:

hugepatsfan wrote:
I don't think the DDR issue was, inherently, his age. If they were trying to rebuild than that would be an issue but that's very clearly and obviously not their organizational direction. They are a team trying to make the playoffs, whether you agree or disagree. The issue with DDR, in that context, is simply the style and caliber of player he is. He is a ball dominant iso scorer who isn't good enough to win much as a ball dominant iso scorer. It's a bad mix. Jrue is older, but stylistically he is a perfect fit for them. Exactly the type of PG you want next to LaVine.

There's definitely some value to iron out here. Is JJJ valued off his promising rookie season or his very disappointing last year with those two rookie contract years left? Jrue has an extra year on his deal compared to DDR and is more expensive so how does that close or eclipse the gap in on court value for them. And then, once you sort those two out, how does the combined value of JJJ and the DDR/Holiday net out compare to Ellis on an expiring deal before UFA or possibly a decline team option and extend candidate?

My guess is that SAC can accomplish something like this in a more fiscally prudent manner while holding on to Ellis. Probably takes attaching picks though, which may or may not be more determinantal to their future than losing a nice but limited player in Ellis.

I'm fine with this. I don't think Jrue is a bad target. Ownership/Management are terrible and have a winning mandate. Holiday is the type of player that helps us get to the playoffs. In an ideal world, I'd take 2 Holidays while giving up LaVine and Demar. but the 1st thing Sac should do this off-season is extend Keon, I'd have that as the mandate.

I personally think a Demar + cap savings for Jrue. Boston is going to be focused on getting out of a financial bind, so getting a guy who makes 8 million less + can be a 6th man -sounds like the right mix. Id suggest adding in a team like Dallas + a random 4th team

Boston out: Jrue
Boston in: Demar
Boston saves 8 million, promotes Horford or Pritchard to starter.

Kings out: Demar, Monk, 2 2nds
Kings in: Jrue, Marshall, Hardy
Jrue - LaVine - Marshall - Keegan - Sabonis
Carter - Keon - LaRavia* - JVal
Add 2 defenders to the roster, much better fits.

Dallas out: Hardy, Naji
Dallas in: Monk
Sacrifice some wing depth for a guard who can fill in for Kyrie. Monk/AD pick and roll would actually be really good.

4th team in: Powell + 2nd(s)
4th team out: Fake 2nd

BOS won't want anything to do with DDR. Still leaves them deep in the 2nd apron this year and still over the luxury tax for 2026-27. If they move Jrue it's going to be a deal that allows them to avoid the luxury tax in 2026-27 and reset their repeater rates, IMO. That's more important for their long term financial stability than next year's tax bill. Jrue for DDR doesn't fix the long term for them and just makes them way worse next year because they go from a perfect fitting piece to a trash fit.

It seems almost impossible for them to accomplish all that in 1 year. The only team with cap space is Brooklyn. Maybe Brooklyn makes a play for Giannis and he wants Jrue? Otherwise I'm struggling to see them do that.

LightTheBeam wrote:

hugepatsfan wrote:

LightTheBeam wrote:
I'm fine with this. I don't think Jrue is a bad target. Ownership/Management are terrible and have a winning mandate. Holiday is the type of player that helps us get to the playoffs. In an ideal world, I'd take 2 Holidays while giving up LaVine and Demar. but the 1st thing Sac should do this off-season is extend Keon, I'd have that as the mandate.

I personally think a Demar + cap savings for Jrue. Boston is going to be focused on getting out of a financial bind, so getting a guy who makes 8 million less + can be a 6th man -sounds like the right mix. Id suggest adding in a team like Dallas + a random 4th team

Boston out: Jrue
Boston in: Demar
Boston saves 8 million, promotes Horford or Pritchard to starter.

Kings out: Demar, Monk, 2 2nds
Kings in: Jrue, Marshall, Hardy
Jrue - LaVine - Marshall - Keegan - Sabonis
Carter - Keon - LaRavia* - JVal
Add 2 defenders to the roster, much better fits.

Dallas out: Hardy, Naji
Dallas in: Monk
Sacrifice some wing depth for a guard who can fill in for Kyrie. Monk/AD pick and roll would actually be really good.

4th team in: Powell + 2nd(s)
4th team out: Fake 2nd

BOS won't want anything to do with DDR. Still leaves them deep in the 2nd apron this year and still over the luxury tax for 2026-27. If they move Jrue it's going to be a deal that allows them to avoid the luxury tax in 2026-27 and reset their repeater rates, IMO. That's more important for their long term financial stability than next year's tax bill. Jrue for DDR doesn't fix the long term for them and just makes them way worse next year because they go from a perfect fitting piece to a trash fit.

It seems almost impossible for them to accomplish all that in 1 year. The only team with cap space is Brooklyn. Maybe Brooklyn makes a play for Giannis and he wants Jrue? Otherwise I'm struggling to see them do that.

I don't think they trade Jrue into cap space. They trade him for two contracts making similar money total. One of them is either expiring or they separately pay to dump it. Probably lowers tax this year by a bit but then when the expiring or dumped half falls off next year they reset the tax.

Think something like Jrue to LAC for Bogi/Eubanks/small filler salaries. That's all expiring money back. LAC gets upgrade for basically a salary dump. BOS uses 2nds to dump the ancillary pieces (Eubanks, others) and reduce their tax next year and then maybe attaches a 1st or two to Bogi to turn him into a longer term piece for that salary slot.

hugepatsfan wrote:

LightTheBeam wrote:

hugepatsfan wrote:
I don't think the DDR issue was, inherently, his age. If they were trying to rebuild than that would be an issue but that's very clearly and obviously not their organizational direction. They are a team trying to make the playoffs, whether you agree or disagree. The issue with DDR, in that context, is simply the style and caliber of player he is. He is a ball dominant iso scorer who isn't good enough to win much as a ball dominant iso scorer. It's a bad mix. Jrue is older, but stylistically he is a perfect fit for them. Exactly the type of PG you want next to LaVine.

There's definitely some value to iron out here. Is JJJ valued off his promising rookie season or his very disappointing last year with those two rookie contract years left? Jrue has an extra year on his deal compared to DDR and is more expensive so how does that close or eclipse the gap in on court value for them. And then, once you sort those two out, how does the combined value of JJJ and the DDR/Holiday net out compare to Ellis on an expiring deal before UFA or possibly a decline team option and extend candidate?

My guess is that SAC can accomplish something like this in a more fiscally prudent manner while holding on to Ellis. Probably takes attaching picks though, which may or may not be more determinantal to their future than losing a nice but limited player in Ellis.

I'm fine with this. I don't think Jrue is a bad target. Ownership/Management are terrible and have a winning mandate. Holiday is the type of player that helps us get to the playoffs. In an ideal world, I'd take 2 Holidays while giving up LaVine and Demar. but the 1st thing Sac should do this off-season is extend Keon, I'd have that as the mandate.

I personally think a Demar + cap savings for Jrue. Boston is going to be focused on getting out of a financial bind, so getting a guy who makes 8 million less + can be a 6th man -sounds like the right mix. Id suggest adding in a team like Dallas + a random 4th team

Boston out: Jrue
Boston in: Demar
Boston saves 8 million, promotes Horford or Pritchard to starter.

Kings out: Demar, Monk, 2 2nds
Kings in: Jrue, Marshall, Hardy
Jrue - LaVine - Marshall - Keegan - Sabonis
Carter - Keon - LaRavia* - JVal
Add 2 defenders to the roster, much better fits.

Dallas out: Hardy, Naji
Dallas in: Monk
Sacrifice some wing depth for a guard who can fill in for Kyrie. Monk/AD pick and roll would actually be really good.

4th team in: Powell + 2nd(s)
4th team out: Fake 2nd

BOS won't want anything to do with DDR. Still leaves them deep in the 2nd apron this year and still over the luxury tax for 2026-27. If they move Jrue it's going to be a deal that allows them to avoid the luxury tax in 2026-27 and reset their repeater rates, IMO. That's more important for their long term financial stability than next year's tax bill. Jrue for DDR doesn't fix the long term for them and just makes them way worse next year because they go from a perfect fitting piece to a trash fit.

Exactly. A Jrue trade needs to include some salary savings for 2025/26 and at least 10million, likely a bit more for 2026/27. Otherwise it’s a non starter. The OP without Ellis included would be better. But then it seems way to good for Sac…and maybe they are taking on too much Salary to be legal?

hugepatsfan wrote:

LightTheBeam wrote:

hugepatsfan wrote:
BOS won't want anything to do with DDR. Still leaves them deep in the 2nd apron this year and still over the luxury tax for 2026-27. If they move Jrue it's going to be a deal that allows them to avoid the luxury tax in 2026-27 and reset their repeater rates, IMO. That's more important for their long term financial stability than next year's tax bill. Jrue for DDR doesn't fix the long term for them and just makes them way worse next year because they go from a perfect fitting piece to a trash fit.

It seems almost impossible for them to accomplish all that in 1 year. The only team with cap space is Brooklyn. Maybe Brooklyn makes a play for Giannis and he wants Jrue? Otherwise I'm struggling to see them do that.

I don't think they trade Jrue into cap space. They trade him for two contracts making similar money total. One of them is either expiring or they separately pay to dump it. Probably lowers tax this year by a bit but then when the expiring or dumped half falls off next year they reset the tax.

Think something like Jrue to LAC for Bogi/Eubanks/small filler salaries. That's all expiring money back. LAC gets upgrade for basically a salary dump. BOS uses 2nds to dump the ancillary pieces (Eubanks, others) and reduce their tax next year and then maybe attaches a 1st or two to Bogi to turn him into a longer term piece for that salary slot.

I think that is going to be harder than said. Just in that specific example, Bogi/Eubanks count for 20 million, so Clippers need to make up 10-12 million, that's basically asking them to include DJJ.

I'm sure that was a rough example, and maybe there are other teams you can get to do that. Mavs directly could make sense with something like Martin, Klay, Hardy, where Boston ships Martin to a 3rd team into a TPE or MLE?

But again you are asking teams to give a solid player + better salaries for 35-37 year old Jrue who has 3/105 left on his contract. I think hes still a good player, I just don't know if that's going to get you exactly what you want.

LightTheBeam wrote:

hugepatsfan wrote:

LightTheBeam wrote:
It seems almost impossible for them to accomplish all that in 1 year. The only team with cap space is Brooklyn. Maybe Brooklyn makes a play for Giannis and he wants Jrue? Otherwise I'm struggling to see them do that.

I don't think they trade Jrue into cap space. They trade him for two contracts making similar money total. One of them is either expiring or they separately pay to dump it. Probably lowers tax this year by a bit but then when the expiring or dumped half falls off next year they reset the tax.

Think something like Jrue to LAC for Bogi/Eubanks/small filler salaries. That's all expiring money back. LAC gets upgrade for basically a salary dump. BOS uses 2nds to dump the ancillary pieces (Eubanks, others) and reduce their tax next year and then maybe attaches a 1st or two to Bogi to turn him into a longer term piece for that salary slot.

I think that is going to be harder than said. Just in that specific example, Bogi/Eubanks count for 20 million, so Clippers need to make up 10-12 million, that's basically asking them to include DJJ.

I'm sure that was a rough example, and maybe there are other teams you can get to do that. Mavs directly could make sense with something like Martin, Klay, Hardy, where Boston ships Martin to a 3rd team into a TPE or MLE?

But again you are asking teams to give a solid player + better salaries for 35-37 year old Jrue who has 3/105 left on his contract. I think hes still a good player, I just don't know if that's going to get you exactly what you want.

Clippers are $23.1M below the apron.

Jrue makes $32.4M. Bogi/Eubanks/Kobe Brown/Jordan Miller make a combined $25.6M. That $6.8M is within salary matching range and doesn't put LAC in a tone of apron danger because they'd have a rotation pretty much all signed:

Harden / Dunn
Jrue / Christie
Powell / DJJ
Kawhi / Batum
Zubac

They can sign one guy for the full MLE (or close to it and then fill out with minimums).

hugepatsfan wrote:

LightTheBeam wrote:

hugepatsfan wrote:
I don't think they trade Jrue into cap space. They trade him for two contracts making similar money total. One of them is either expiring or they separately pay to dump it. Probably lowers tax this year by a bit but then when the expiring or dumped half falls off next year they reset the tax.

Think something like Jrue to LAC for Bogi/Eubanks/small filler salaries. That's all expiring money back. LAC gets upgrade for basically a salary dump. BOS uses 2nds to dump the ancillary pieces (Eubanks, others) and reduce their tax next year and then maybe attaches a 1st or two to Bogi to turn him into a longer term piece for that salary slot.

I think that is going to be harder than said. Just in that specific example, Bogi/Eubanks count for 20 million, so Clippers need to make up 10-12 million, that's basically asking them to include DJJ.

I'm sure that was a rough example, and maybe there are other teams you can get to do that. Mavs directly could make sense with something like Martin, Klay, Hardy, where Boston ships Martin to a 3rd team into a TPE or MLE?

But again you are asking teams to give a solid player + better salaries for 35-37 year old Jrue who has 3/105 left on his contract. I think hes still a good player, I just don't know if that's going to get you exactly what you want.

Clippers are $23.1M below the apron.

Jrue makes $32.4M. Bogi/Eubanks/Kobe Brown/Jordan Miller make a combined $25.6M. That $6.8M is within salary matching range and doesn't put LAC in a tone of apron danger because they'd have a rotation pretty much all signed:

Harden / Dunn
Jrue / Christie
Powell / DJJ
Kawhi / Batum
Zubac

They can sign one guy for the full MLE (or close to it and then fill out with minimums).

I'm not a clippers fan so can't speak for them.. But the convo i've seen from their fan base seems to be that Bogi was awesome for them, and Powell is the guy to move. Also the owner seems like he has taken a step back from overpaying for older guys. That team on paper looks like a very good 8 man rotation, maybe they think Jrue is the missing piece.

Wonder if swapping Powell for Bogi/Kobe/Miller makes more sense.

LightTheBeam wrote:

hugepatsfan wrote:

LightTheBeam wrote:
I think that is going to be harder than said. Just in that specific example, Bogi/Eubanks count for 20 million, so Clippers need to make up 10-12 million, that's basically asking them to include DJJ.

I'm sure that was a rough example, and maybe there are other teams you can get to do that. Mavs directly could make sense with something like Martin, Klay, Hardy, where Boston ships Martin to a 3rd team into a TPE or MLE?

But again you are asking teams to give a solid player + better salaries for 35-37 year old Jrue who has 3/105 left on his contract. I think hes still a good player, I just don't know if that's going to get you exactly what you want.

Clippers are $23.1M below the apron.

Jrue makes $32.4M. Bogi/Eubanks/Kobe Brown/Jordan Miller make a combined $25.6M. That $6.8M is within salary matching range and doesn't put LAC in a tone of apron danger because they'd have a rotation pretty much all signed:

Harden / Dunn
Jrue / Christie
Powell / DJJ
Kawhi / Batum
Zubac

They can sign one guy for the full MLE (or close to it and then fill out with minimums).

I'm not a clippers fan so can't speak for them.. But the convo i've seen from their fan base seems to be that Bogi was awesome for them, and Powell is the guy to move. Also the owner seems like he has taken a step back from overpaying for older guys. That team on paper looks like a very good 8 man rotation, maybe they think Jrue is the missing piece.

Wonder if swapping Powell for Bogi/Kobe/Miller makes more sense.

That makes sense to use Powell instead. He's $20M expiring vs. $16M for Bogi. Gives LAC more room to use the full MLE under the apron.

That's actually probably better for BOS too. The extra salary of Powell vs. Bogi allows LAC to keep one or both of the minimum type salaries. That gives BOS one less player to dump. And whether it's Bogi or Powell, I'd expect BOS to use them as expiring filler and trade for a front court player with a pick attached anyway, so Powell's larger salary might possibly open up some more options since BOS still needs to abide by 2nd apron rules.