Boston Paraplegics

[hugepatsfan]

MIL gives: Dame Lillard
MIL gets: Paul George

Why? Last ditch effort to keep Giannis. PG might be a bad contract, but unlike Dame he can at least suit up next year. They take on an extra contract year as part of an effort to build a team Giannis will give another shot.

PHI gives: Paul George, #3
PHI gets: Jaylen Brown

Why? Use the #3 to turn what looks like a dead weight contract to a guy with still prime years left.

BOS gives: Brown
BOS gets: Dame, #3 pick

Why? Get Tatum a rehab buddy so they can tank for a year. Trade Holiday for expiring salary like in the other thread I posted. They can be a fun tanking team for a year with Pritchard/White/Bailey (#3 pick)/Hauser/Scheierman running and gunning from 3 around whatever big man they end up with (Porzingis or someone via trade). Next year, with Porzingis and the expiring filler they'd get back, they can look to package the high pick they get from tanking with Dame's then-expiring deal for a co-star to run alongside Tatum with White still there.

[Godaddycurse]

boston need to dump a lot of salary to make this legal. dame makes more than brown

[facothomas22]

The 76ers only would entertain this trade if the 76ers medical know with full clarity that Emiid will be get relatively healthy at some point next season. Even then, I would hope the 76ers aim higher than Jaylen Brown if they're moving the 3rd pick.

[hugepatsfan]

boston need to dump a lot of salary to make this legal. dame makes more than brown

AH, missed that detail. BOS might have to just keep PG then instead of swapping for Dame to shed a year of committment.

That said, obviously this would be part of a Tatum-less teardown. As of right now, assuming they pick at #28/#32 and guarantee the deals of JD Davison/Jordan Walsh, they'll be at 14 players signed and $24,050,441 over the 2nd apron.

The Jrue trade I referenced in my post was this: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2458550

That netted BOS Kleber/Vincent/Eubanks for Jrue. I imagine using #28 and #32 could dump the expiring deals of Kleber/Vincent and future 2nd would clear Eubanks. If BOS layered those salary dumps into this deal, I think the math would work where they send less than they take back and end below the 2nd apron so all would work out.

[Godaddycurse]

boston need to dump a lot of salary to make this legal. dame makes more than brown

AH, missed that detail. BOS might have to just keep PG then instead of swapping for Dame to shed a year of committment.

That said, obviously this would be part of a Tatum-less teardown. As of right now, assuming they pick at #28/#32 and guarantee the deals of JD Davison/Jordan Walsh, they'll be at 14 players signed and $24,050,441 over the 2nd apron.

The Jrue trade I referenced in my post was this: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2458550

That netted BOS Kleber/Vincent/Eubanks for Jrue. I imagine using #28 and #32 could dump the expiring deals of Kleber/Vincent and future 2nd would clear Eubanks. If BOS layered those salary dumps into this deal, I think the math would work where they send less than they take back and end below the 2nd apron so all would work out.

sending less than you take back = 1st apron hard cap

easy fix to attach a vet min w/ brown to get dame though

[LightTheBeam]

Is Boston really going to move Brown?

I'd have them tearing down to Brown, Tatum, White. Spending a year fighting for 45 wins, and then re-tool around those 3 guys in a year.

[Larry_Russell]

Is Boston really going to move Brown?

I'd have them tearing down to Brown, Tatum, White. Spending a year fighting for 45 wins, and then re-tool around those 3 guys in a year.

This is most likely what happens.

It all depends on Tatum truthfully and how bad it is.


Jrue and KP are the obvious trade away pieces and add a young bigman who can take care of the middle.

[Chinook]

Gross title.

Everyone should stand pat. Boston needs to save money. Milwaukee shouldn't get an even worse contract. Philly needs to go ahead and draft to build around their young guys.

[ReggiesKnicks]

Is Boston really going to move Brown?

I'd have them tearing down to Brown, Tatum, White. Spending a year fighting for 45 wins, and then re-tool around those 3 guys in a year.

Tatum will be lucky to return as an All-NBA player but I think All-star is a realistic outcome.

Is Boston winning with an older Brown/White, All-star level Tatum and little cap flexibility?

[LightTheBeam]

Is Boston really going to move Brown?

I'd have them tearing down to Brown, Tatum, White. Spending a year fighting for 45 wins, and then re-tool around those 3 guys in a year.

Tatum will be lucky to return as an All-NBA player but I think All-star is a realistic outcome.

Is Boston winning with an older Brown/White, All-star level Tatum and little cap flexibility?

I mean Tatum is 27, Brown is 28, and White is 30. Technically all these guys are early in their primes. Older Jaylen Brown at 29-30 years old just rings false to me. He should be peak prime at that age. Maybe you could argue 32 year old White will be starting to slow down, but the other 2? It's going to rely on how Tatum comes back. Modern medicine is such that I have no idea if he will be a superstar, all-star or completely washed.

But it's Boston, and so far they've been able to maneuver in ways others haven't. They could easily decide to strip down to Brown/Tatum while heavily tanking, getting a top 5 pick to play with next off-season, and being right back at the top 24 months from now.

[ReggiesKnicks]

Is Boston really going to move Brown?

I'd have them tearing down to Brown, Tatum, White. Spending a year fighting for 45 wins, and then re-tool around those 3 guys in a year.

Tatum will be lucky to return as an All-NBA player but I think All-star is a realistic outcome.

Is Boston winning with an older Brown/White, All-star level Tatum and little cap flexibility?

I mean Tatum is 27, Brown is 28, and White is 30. Technically all these guys are early in their primes. Older Jaylen Brown at 29-30 years old just rings false to me. He should be peak prime at that age. Maybe you could argue 32 year old White will be starting to slow down, but the other 2? It's going to rely on how Tatum comes back. Modern medicine is such that I have no idea if he will be a superstar, all-star or completely washed.

But it's Boston, and so far they've been able to maneuver in ways others haven't. They could easily decide to strip down to Brown/Tatum while heavily tanking, getting a top 5 pick to play with next off-season, and being right back at the top 24 months from now.

It's a lot easier said (what you are saying) than done. I'm just trying to be realistic here.

[LightTheBeam]

Tatum will be lucky to return as an All-NBA player but I think All-star is a realistic outcome.

Is Boston winning with an older Brown/White, All-star level Tatum and little cap flexibility?

I mean Tatum is 27, Brown is 28, and White is 30. Technically all these guys are early in their primes. Older Jaylen Brown at 29-30 years old just rings false to me. He should be peak prime at that age. Maybe you could argue 32 year old White will be starting to slow down, but the other 2? It's going to rely on how Tatum comes back. Modern medicine is such that I have no idea if he will be a superstar, all-star or completely washed.

But it's Boston, and so far they've been able to maneuver in ways others haven't. They could easily decide to strip down to Brown/Tatum while heavily tanking, getting a top 5 pick to play with next off-season, and being right back at the top 24 months from now.

It's a lot easier said (what you are saying) than done. I'm just trying to be realistic here.

They have 2 franchise superstars. Replacing Holiday and KP won't be too difficult. They won a title without KP basically. Again this team boils down to Tatum's recovery. If that works out well, they will be contenders again (especially in the east), if it doesn't then it won't matter anyways. But you don't blow it up until you know that answer IMO. Nobody in the east is running the show the next 10 years that they can't get back to where they were.

[theBigLip]

Celts should trade Brown if they can. He’s good, but not worth that contract. Getting paid the max should mean you can be the #1 guy on a championship team. He clearly is not that.

[jayjaysee]

I think Boston needs to pay Milwaukee? Dame is hurt, but PG is owed a lot more money and looked really off this season. No idea how to feel about that.

I think it’s interesting for Boston if Tatum is out for the season. A one year tank, with VJ or Bailey already on the roster, means Boston maybe pulls off the GSW two time line dream..

Philly should probably just keep the youth movement going, but Brown is a really good fit between Joel/Maxey if they do think Joel can get right again.

[ReggiesKnicks]

I mean Tatum is 27, Brown is 28, and White is 30. Technically all these guys are early in their primes. Older Jaylen Brown at 29-30 years old just rings false to me. He should be peak prime at that age. Maybe you could argue 32 year old White will be starting to slow down, but the other 2? It's going to rely on how Tatum comes back. Modern medicine is such that I have no idea if he will be a superstar, all-star or completely washed.

But it's Boston, and so far they've been able to maneuver in ways others haven't. They could easily decide to strip down to Brown/Tatum while heavily tanking, getting a top 5 pick to play with next off-season, and being right back at the top 24 months from now.

It's a lot easier said (what you are saying) than done. I'm just trying to be realistic here.

They have 2 franchise superstars. Replacing Holiday and KP won't be too difficult. They won a title without KP basically. Again this team boils down to Tatum's recovery. If that works out well, they will be contenders again (especially in the east), if it doesn't then it won't matter anyways. But you don't blow it up until you know that answer IMO. Nobody in the east is running the show the next 10 years that they can't get back to where they were.

I guess I don't consider Brown a superstar and consider his status boosted by the depth and overall talent on the Boston roster. That's sort of my point in analysing Boston in the future. Brown is worse than SGA, Jokic, ANT, Haliburton, Mitchell, Brunson and Curry (The best players on the other 7 teams remaining in the post-season). He is probably worse or equivalent to Randle, Mobley, Siakam, Butler, Murray, and KAT. It is really hard to build a team around a player like Randle, Mobley, Siakam, Butler, Murray, KAT or Brown as being your best player and expect to be any better than your Sacramento Kings in 2023 and 2024 or the Knicks Pre-Brunson or the Timberwolves pre-Gobert or the Raptors post-Kawhi.

Due to the 2nd Apron, teams can't keep older (think post-rookie scale contracts) rosters together or intact. The talent level of the 2024 Boston Celtics, which was incredibly high, is not a talent level Boston can realistically achieve or uphold in 2026-2027 and beyond.

[brackdan70]

Is Boston really going to move Brown?

I'd have them tearing down to Brown, Tatum, White. Spending a year fighting for 45 wins, and then re-tool around those 3 guys in a year.

This seems more likely but you never know…

[hugepatsfan]

I think Boston needs to pay Milwaukee? Dame is hurt, but PG is owed a lot more money and looked really off this season. No idea how to feel about that.

I think it’s interesting for Boston if Tatum is out for the season. A one year tank, with VJ or Bailey already on the roster, means Boston maybe pulls off the GSW two time line dream..

Philly should probably just keep the youth movement going, but Brown is a really good fit between Joel/Maxey if they do think Joel can get right again.

I looked at the MIL side through the lenses of the Giannis situation. He seems on the verge of saying that he can't win in MIL and wanting out. Dame is going to miss next season with the Achilles and considering age/injury you'd expect him to probably not be that good when he's back. PG may be overpaid, but at least he can play and contribute. MIL doesn't have the assets to move an inactive Dame for anything else most likely.

Dame is a bloated salary for 2 years where you only get one year of (likely poor) on court value. PG is a bloated salary for 3 years but no immediate sign of not being able to at least contribute somewhat. I think for a team trying to get Giannis to stave off a trade request for one year, someone who can do SOMETHING on the court for them is worth the extra year. But if Giannis wants out either way or is willing to stay even with getting nothing out of that salary slot then probably not. This would only make any sense if Giannis stays.

[jayjaysee]

I think Boston needs to pay Milwaukee? Dame is hurt, but PG is owed a lot more money and looked really off this season. No idea how to feel about that.

I think it’s interesting for Boston if Tatum is out for the season. A one year tank, with VJ or Bailey already on the roster, means Boston maybe pulls off the GSW two time line dream..

Philly should probably just keep the youth movement going, but Brown is a really good fit between Joel/Maxey if they do think Joel can get right again.

I looked at the MIL side through the lenses of the Giannis situation. He seems on the verge of saying that he can't win in MIL and wanting out. Dame is going to miss next season with the Achilles and considering age/injury you'd expect him to probably not be that good when he's back. PG may be overpaid, but at least he can play and contribute. MIL doesn't have the assets to move an inactive Dame for anything else most likely.

Dame is a bloated salary for 2 years where you only get one year of (likely poor) on court value. PG is a bloated salary for 3 years but no immediate sign of not being able to at least contribute somewhat. I think for a team trying to get Giannis to stave off a trade request for one year, someone who can do SOMETHING on the court for them is worth the extra year. But if Giannis wants out either way or is willing to stay even with getting nothing out of that salary slot then probably not. This would only make any sense if Giannis stays.

Yeah, I just don’t know if what we saw last of Paul George is going to convince Giannis to do anything. He does help more than Dame for one year. But then you’re stuck with that contract and player when you might be able to retool around Giannis if he does stick around.. I would want some value back there..

My spin.. If Boston is selling everything, what does Milwaukee owe Boston if the deal became Porzingis and PG for Dame and Kuzma (with Connaughton dropped on some 4th team, should be enough to make it legal for Mil though I didn’t check)

Kuzma can lead the tank and then be traded as an expiring next offseason..

[hugepatsfan]

I think Boston needs to pay Milwaukee? Dame is hurt, but PG is owed a lot more money and looked really off this season. No idea how to feel about that.

I think it’s interesting for Boston if Tatum is out for the season. A one year tank, with VJ or Bailey already on the roster, means Boston maybe pulls off the GSW two time line dream..

Philly should probably just keep the youth movement going, but Brown is a really good fit between Joel/Maxey if they do think Joel can get right again.

I looked at the MIL side through the lenses of the Giannis situation. He seems on the verge of saying that he can't win in MIL and wanting out. Dame is going to miss next season with the Achilles and considering age/injury you'd expect him to probably not be that good when he's back. PG may be overpaid, but at least he can play and contribute. MIL doesn't have the assets to move an inactive Dame for anything else most likely.

Dame is a bloated salary for 2 years where you only get one year of (likely poor) on court value. PG is a bloated salary for 3 years but no immediate sign of not being able to at least contribute somewhat. I think for a team trying to get Giannis to stave off a trade request for one year, someone who can do SOMETHING on the court for them is worth the extra year. But if Giannis wants out either way or is willing to stay even with getting nothing out of that salary slot then probably not. This would only make any sense if Giannis stays.

Yeah, I just don’t know if what we saw last of Paul George is going to convince Giannis to do anything. He does help more than Dame for one year. But then you’re stuck with that contract and player when you might be able to retool around Giannis if he does stick around.. I would want some value back there..

My spin.. If Boston is selling everything, what does Milwaukee owe Boston if the deal became Porzingis and PG for Dame and Kuzma (with Connaughton dropped on some 4th team, should be enough to make it legal for Mil though I didn’t check)

Kuzma can lead the tank and then be traded as an expiring next offseason..

I don't see BOS interested in expanding the deal to that in this scenario. They need the relief of an expiring Porzingis vs. having Kuzma to trade. As of right now, for 26-27, Celtics are about $7.8M over the projected tax line with:

White / Pritchard
Holiday / Scheierman
Brown / Hauser / Walsh
Tatum
Queta
+ the players they would take with the #28 and #32 pick this year and the projected #28 pick next year

With Tatum out, my assumption of #28 I've been using in my projections is likely way too late for their 26 pick projection so need to add some salary for that (too lazy to come up with a better projection right now and look up the rookie scale). This deal also swaps Brown for the slightly larger deal of Dame and adds the #3 pick this year which would be I think like another $12M on the books. So they're probably ending up a good $20-25M here over the tax line for 26-27.

It's CRUCIAL that BOS gets under the tax in 26-27 to reset the repeater rates. Just adding Kuzma's salary to the books here makes that impossible. The key would be for them to do this Brown for #3 type trade with Dame or PG as the filler and then also make a deal of Holiday for expiring salary. I suggested a 3-way with the LA teams where they get Vincent/Kleber/Eubanks. That means you wipe Jrue's salary out from the calcs above and now they're able to get below the tax with Tatum, the young guys, most of their future picks and the bloated salary of Dame or PG to use as salary ballast in a trade if a star is available.

Swapping PG for Dame would be preferrable for BOS since they really have no need for any on court contributions next year and having his expiring salary vs. 2 for PG plays better into those trade scenarios. But if MIL refuses, then they just keep PG and try that vs. expanding to take on more salary and blow up their tax reset.

[jayjaysee]

I looked at the MIL side through the lenses of the Giannis situation. He seems on the verge of saying that he can't win in MIL and wanting out. Dame is going to miss next season with the Achilles and considering age/injury you'd expect him to probably not be that good when he's back. PG may be overpaid, but at least he can play and contribute. MIL doesn't have the assets to move an inactive Dame for anything else most likely.

Dame is a bloated salary for 2 years where you only get one year of (likely poor) on court value. PG is a bloated salary for 3 years but no immediate sign of not being able to at least contribute somewhat. I think for a team trying to get Giannis to stave off a trade request for one year, someone who can do SOMETHING on the court for them is worth the extra year. But if Giannis wants out either way or is willing to stay even with getting nothing out of that salary slot then probably not. This would only make any sense if Giannis stays.

Yeah, I just don’t know if what we saw last of Paul George is going to convince Giannis to do anything. He does help more than Dame for one year. But then you’re stuck with that contract and player when you might be able to retool around Giannis if he does stick around.. I would want some value back there..

My spin.. If Boston is selling everything, what does Milwaukee owe Boston if the deal became Porzingis and PG for Dame and Kuzma (with Connaughton dropped on some 4th team, should be enough to make it legal for Mil though I didn’t check)

Kuzma can lead the tank and then be traded as an expiring next offseason..

I don't see BOS interested in expanding the deal to that in this scenario. They need the relief of an expiring Porzingis vs. having Kuzma to trade. As of right now, for 26-27, Celtics are about $7.8M over the projected tax line with:

White / Pritchard
Holiday / Scheierman
Brown / Hauser / Walsh
Tatum
Queta
+ the players they would take with the #28 and #32 pick this year and the projected #28 pick next year

With Tatum out, my assumption of #28 is likely way too late for their 26 pick projection so need to add some salary for that. This deal also swaps Brown for the slightly larger deal of Dame and adds the #3 pick this year which would be I think like another $12M on the books.

It's CRUCIAL that BOS gets under the tax in 26-27 to reset the repeater rates. Just adding Kuzma's salary to the books here makes that impossible. The key would be for them to do this Brown for #3 type trade with Dame or PG as the filler and then also make a deal of Holiday for expiring salary. I suggested a 3-way with the LA teams where they get Vincent/Kleber/Eubanks. That means you wipe Jrue's salary out from the calcs above and now they're more comfortably below the tax with Tatum, the young guys, most of their future picks and the bloated salary of Dame or PG to use as salary ballast in a trade if a star is available.

Swapping PG for Dame would be preferrable for BOS since they really have no need for any on court contributions next year and having his expiring salary vs. 2 for PG plays better into those trade scenarios. But if MIL refuses, then they just keep PG and try that vs. expanding to take on more salary and blow up their tax reset.

So in order to get KP in that type of idea, Milwaukee would need to be send Boston a much smaller expiring? Like convince Chicago to do Huerter or Collins for Kuzma? Or Scary Terry reunion.. or some other eh?

But maybe actual Milwaukee fans like the OP as is and I’m completely off.