RealGM

SAS
Out: Vassell, Keldon, Sochan, #14
In: Durant

ORL
Out: KCP, A. Black
In: Vassell

PHX:
Out: Durant
In: A. Black, Sochan, KCP, Keldon, #14

Spurs clear backcourt spot for Harper and add near-term star power and shooting to the frontcourt, while keeping long-term core and future draft capital. See how the roster gels as a likely contender with aging Durant for a year while Harper and Castle develop in support of Fox in the backcourt and potentially get deep playoff experience. Go into next offseason with only rookie deals and Champagnie on the books + option to run it back with Fox / Durant / Barnes on frontloaded contracts or go after other FAs and trade targets.

Orlando uses Black's upside to turn KCP into a younger, better version of himself on a reasonable long-term deal. Even if Black pans out, he looks like an awkward fit in Orlando at this point. Suggs / Vassell / Wagner / Banchero / Carter plus a deep bench could make it out of the East next year and for years to come.

Phoenix can't go full tank with Booker on the roster and none of their own picks for years, so turning Durant into young players with upside is probably their best bet vs. getting a future pick package. Black and Sochan are both just 21 years old - former top 10 picks who have shown they belong in an NBA rotation at a minimum, with potential for more. Both guys have yet to earn a big second deal, but are the type of players who could provide a ton of value in their early primes on reasonable long-term contracts.

vassell is not worth this.

I would definitely do this from the Spurs perspective. I don't think Phoenix would because I would assume they want more than 1 pick in return (regardless of how likely that ask is). I'm not sure from Orlando's side either. They would have to really like Vassell, though he is still young and a solid three point shooter which they definitely need

Orlando doesn't need to get off KCP money that badly and I'd rather use Black in a bigger deal with Isaac to go after a bigger fish if it becomes available.

Last I checked, Barnes, Johnson and Sochan were enough to match Durant. So if Devin isn't adding value, the Suns are welcome to shop the others to try to squeeze out some more assets while the Spurs hold onto Devin. Unlike with Giannis, Durant's age means the Spurs don't have the same mid-term salary issues after acquiring KD.

So Spurs get to dump both unwanted contracts and only give up 14 to walk away with KD? Yeah I can't see that as great as it would be for the Spurs to upgrade and clear future money.

Not sure why we spend time on these lowball offers. Just make a real offer if you think KD makes sense and if you'd only take him if given to you, probably just accept that's very unlikely.

And then roping in a 3rd team only here to provide extra value to hide how bad the offer is? 3rd teams should only be introduced if their presence makes sense not to just help one team get something cheaper.

Spurs going for a max kind of guy IMO requires that Vassell be included, because Vassell on top of Fox + new guy (Giannis, KD, whomever) would make it difficult to build a contending roster in terms of the cap (or would be suboptimal, lets say). I'm not saying any team should take Vassell if they value him as a negative, but what I AM saying is that it's going to be difficult to make any deal with a team that views him (and Keldon, and Sochan) as such, which is not the way Spurs fans see them. Personally I think they were put in a miserable position by the franchise, which is difficult to understand unless you actually watch edthe past few Spurs seasons, and they would do better in a more favorable context (not tank caliber coaching, better spacing, better playmaking, rim protection in the second unit). If Spurs can't find that around the league, might as well roll with these guys with the new draftees and FA signings, maybe a smaller trade, and have them build up their value by the trade deadline, especially Vassell.

Texas Chuck wrote:So Spurs get to dump both unwanted contracts and only give up 14 to walk away with KD? Yeah I can't see that as great as it would be for the Spurs to upgrade and clear future money.

Not sure why we spend time on these lowball offers. Just make a real offer if you think KD makes sense and if you'd only take him if given to you, probably just accept that's very unlikely.

And then roping in a 3rd team only here to provide extra value to hide how bad the offer is? 3rd teams should only be introduced if their presence makes sense not to just help one team get something cheaper.

We don't know what a real offer for Durant looks like, especially if he turns down a team like Memphis. That doesn't mean teams should low-ball and expect it to work. But it does mean it might be one or two teams working with the Suns and Durant to secure a deal. That might mean the team pays more. It might mean they pay less. But there's no consensus baseline nor any real sense of where Durant wants to go.

Vassell isn’t worth what you think he’s worth.

Chinook wrote:

Texas Chuck wrote:So Spurs get to dump both unwanted contracts and only give up 14 to walk away with KD? Yeah I can't see that as great as it would be for the Spurs to upgrade and clear future money.

Not sure why we spend time on these lowball offers. Just make a real offer if you think KD makes sense and if you'd only take him if given to you, probably just accept that's very unlikely.

And then roping in a 3rd team only here to provide extra value to hide how bad the offer is? 3rd teams should only be introduced if their presence makes sense not to just help one team get something cheaper.

We don't know what a real offer for Durant looks like, especially if he turns down a team like Memphis. That doesn't mean teams should low-ball and expect it to work. But it does mean it might be one or two teams working with the Suns and Durant to secure a deal. That might mean the team pays more. It might mean they pay less. But there's no consensus baseline nor any real sense of where Durant wants to go.

I agree. But in the absence of information, we should try and structure deals that seem to make sense for every team in them not just one. Spurs have more attractive matching, so why not just use it? Or if they feel like they want to extend Durant(which they probably would right?) and thus insist on using Keldon and Vassell that's cool too, but add the value to account for that. But here Vassell isn't an upgrade on KCP and has a worse deal but Orlando gets to chip in value for the Spurs? No.

That's all I'm asking. Just add some more picks, cut out Orlando and then if Phoenix doesn't want those players(and I don't think they would, they could turn them into something else, or just deal Booker too and ride out the contracts and keep the assets.

But right now those are two negative contracts, so lets account for it.

Texas Chuck wrote:So Spurs get to dump both unwanted contracts and only give up 14 to walk away with KD? Yeah I can't see that as great as it would be for the Spurs to upgrade and clear future money.

Not sure why we spend time on these lowball offers. Just make a real offer if you think KD makes sense and if you'd only take him if given to you, probably just accept that's very unlikely.

And then roping in a 3rd team only here to provide extra value to hide how bad the offer is? 3rd teams should only be introduced if their presence makes sense not to just help one team get something cheaper.

Dump which two unwanted contracts? Keldon I guess, but he's pretty decent and that deal isn't terrible in terms of money or length. Not Vassell, even after a bit of a down year coming off injury. 24, good defender, good shooter, good tertiary scorer, reasonable long-term deal... would gladly have him on the C's if we had the assets / $.

It's not just 14, Sochan is in there too, and think Vassell has value. Package is for a player who will be 37 next year on a huge one-year deal, so not sure what you consider a real offer. Castle or Harper?

No it doesn't require Harper or Castle. But Vassell is not the positive value you want to sell him as. He and Keldon are both negative. The fix is easy though, take out Orlando unless they want to do KCP/Vassell straight up for some reason ,and add in future picks from the Spurs. Doesn't have to be a premium asset as expiring KD doesn't warrant that. But it can't be bad money and one mid 1st. And Sochan has maybe 2 2nds value at best? Spurs have shown us there is no offensive role for him and he's not good enough defensively to overcome that and he's a free agent so if the Suns could somehow unlock him, then he becomes expensive. We've seen better pending RFA's move dirt cheap.

If Sochan doesn't have value, then two of Branham, Wesley and Champagnie can also make up the salary difference. The Spurs are lacking in forwards after this deal and would likely love to keep Jeremy to platoon in the front court. And how wide is the gap? Is SAS29 enough to make up the difference? Feels like the picks with swaps built in would be overkill.

Chinook wrote:If Sochan doesn't have value, then two of Branham, Wesley and Champagnie can also make up the salary difference. The Spurs are lacking in forwards after this deal and would likely love to keep Jeremy to platoon in the front court. And how wide is the gap? Is SAS29 enough to make up the difference? Feels like the picks with swaps built in would be overkill.

Oh yeah sub in different money for sure if you want to keep Sochan. I don't know exactly what the value is, but its at least one more first round pick and depending on which one, I'd say two more.

Texas Chuck wrote:No it doesn't require Harper or Castle. But Vassell is not the positive value you want to sell him as. He and Keldon are both negative. The fix is easy though, take out Orlando unless they want to do KCP/Vassell straight up for some reason ,and add in future picks from the Spurs. Doesn't have to be a premium asset as expiring KD doesn't warrant that. But it can't be bad money and one mid 1st. And Sochan has maybe 2 2nds value at best? Spurs have shown us there is no offensive role for him and he's not good enough defensively to overcome that and he's a free agent so if the Suns could somehow unlock him, then he becomes expensive. We've seen better pending RFA's move dirt cheap.

I guess I'm just a weirdo who thinks Vassell and Sochan are good

Sochan... I mean dude is 21 coming off a season where he averaged 16.5/9.5/3.5 per 36 on good efficiency with good defense, despite being banged up with minor injuries most of the year...

Avdija, for example, had a worse third year, at an older age, fully healthy. Signed an extension that seemed kind of crazy at the time, then had a better year and got dealt for 2 1sts and 2 2nds.

Who are some better year before RFA's that moved dirt cheap?

williambh3 wrote:SAS
Out: Vassell, Keldon, Sochan, #14
In: Durant

ORL
Out: KCP, A. Black
In: Vassell

PHX:
Out: Durant
In: A. Black, Sochan, KCP, Keldon, #14

Spurs clear backcourt spot for Harper and add near-term star power and shooting to the frontcourt, while keeping long-term core and future draft capital. See how the roster gels as a likely contender with aging Durant for a year while Harper and Castle develop in support of Fox in the backcourt and potentially get deep playoff experience. Go into next offseason with only rookie deals and Champagnie on the books + option to run it back with Fox / Durant / Barnes on frontloaded contracts or go after other FAs and trade targets.

Orlando uses Black's upside to turn KCP into a younger, better version of himself on a reasonable long-term deal. Even if Black pans out, he looks like an awkward fit in Orlando at this point. Suggs / Vassell / Wagner / Banchero / Carter plus a deep bench could make it out of the East next year and for years to come.

Phoenix can't go full tank with Booker on the roster and none of their own picks for years, so turning Durant into young players with upside is probably their best bet vs. getting a future pick package. Black and Sochan are both just 21 years old - former top 10 picks who have shown they belong in an NBA rotation at a minimum, with potential for more. Both guys have yet to earn a big second deal, but are the type of players who could provide a ton of value in their early primes on reasonable long-term contracts.

It's an overpay for a 37 year old when you factor in that the Spurs are not ready to win a title yet.

Also I assume the OP is a Magic fan? Why exactly do they get Vassell here? Why does any team want Anthony Black? He can't shoot.