RealGM

So I've thought about the trade I posted for Garland for Suggs & picks a week ago: https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2458158&hilit=Garland+Suggs

I've taken some of the feedback and merits of it, and came up with this trade to build off of the weaknesses of the previous trade that I saw as legitimate. Particularly the PG situation in Cleveland if the Garland to Suggs trade happened.

CLE Sends: Hunter, Allen, Okoro, Garland, Tyson
CLE Gets: LeBron, Suggs, Knetch, Bronny, 2025 Orlando pick from Den (#25), 2027 Unprotected Orlando 1st, 2031 Lakers Unprotected 1st, 2028 Lakers 1st Round Pick Swap

LAL Sends: LeBron, Knetch, Bronny, 2031 1st Unprotected, 2028 1st Pick Swap
LAL Gets: Allen, Hunter, Okoro, Tyson, Jett

ORL Sends: Suggs, Jett, 2025 Den 1st, 2027 1st Unprotected
ORL Gets: Garland

This trade can be done in 2 separate trades, just combined them for discourse sake

Cleveland gets to take advantage of the wide open East with this revamp of the team. Mobley moved to the 5, LeBron at the 4 and the defacto PG, moves on from their rougher contracts and gets 3 1st to have the flexibility to make moves as needed to shore up their depth

Lakers get the center they've been looking for to pair with Luka whose better than Mark Williams, swallows some cap space at the cost of that

Magic get the PG they need dearly, move on from the heart & soul of their team, might be moving too many picks in the trade but I tend to be a bit too generous when it comes to these convos and I'm the fan of the team in the trade lol

Thoughts?

lakers owe 2027 and 2029 1sts to other teams. they cant trade their 2028 1st

Where’s Jett going? (Not that it matters too much, but assume the Lakers since the Cavs can’t take him.)

The Cavs don’t get far enough under the 2nd apron to fill out their roster with rookie minimums. I’m not sure whether that’s legal, but it absolutely requires another salary dump before the regular season, and it requires losing Jerome and Merrill in free agency.

Both of yall made some good catches, just made the edits to make the trade able to happen

Godaddycurse wrote:lakers owe 2027 and 2029 1sts to other teams. they cant trade their 2028 1st

Would the Lakers be able to trade a 2028 1st Round Pick Swap in this scenario or no?

toooskies wrote:Where’s Jett going? (Not that it matters too much, but assume the Lakers since the Cavs can’t take him.)

The Cavs don’t get far enough under the 2nd apron to fill out their roster with rookie minimums. I’m not sure whether that’s legal, but it absolutely requires another salary dump before the regular season, and it requires losing Jerome and Merrill in free agency.

Their cap space situation is really dire, my guess would be them moving whoever else they have on their (Strus &/or Wade) with a 1st for better depth on the team with some flexibility for future years

Suggs contract is huge for the Cavs because its descending also, this upcoming year its 35 mil but by his last 2 seasons it'll be $27 mil.

The Cavs books might be rough depth wise this season, although I think they can do something with moving a pick or 2 but moving forward it'll be greener pastures

I like this trade for all involved. Nice one.

Cleveland wouldn’t do this.

With Giannis trade and Tatum injury, Cavs should run it back...

The Cavs are not trading for a 41 year old LBJ making $50+M.

No one is trading for Suggs until, at a minimum, he can pass a physical. I suspect most potential trade partners will want to see him take the court after that surgery.

ogmagicfan wrote:

toooskies wrote:Where’s Jett going? (Not that it matters too much, but assume the Lakers since the Cavs can’t take him.)

The Cavs don’t get far enough under the 2nd apron to fill out their roster with rookie minimums. I’m not sure whether that’s legal, but it absolutely requires another salary dump before the regular season, and it requires losing Jerome and Merrill in free agency.

Their cap space situation is really dire, my guess would be them moving whoever else they have on their (Strus &/or Wade) with a 1st for better depth on the team with some flexibility for future years

Suggs contract is huge for the Cavs because its descending also, this upcoming year its 35 mil but by his last 2 seasons it'll be $27 mil.

The Cavs books might be rough depth wise this season, although I think they can do something with moving a pick or 2 but moving forward it'll be greener pastures

You can go two years over the 2nd apron without losing picks, and the Cavs have a diversity of contracts for trades at most salary requirements. As long as their owner can stomach the tax bill they’re not in that bad of a spot for whatever they need.

The question is whether they have doubts about the core of a 64-win team or if they just need more experience.

To be honest, I'd consider it from Cavs end, since everyone else is intent on Garland being the problem over Mitchell. I'm higher on Knecht and Suggs than most, Lebron hopefully reins in Mitchell-ball a bit, and we regain some of our lost draft capital. Draft Raynaud or Zikarsky at 25 to back up Mobley at 5, and can even move Mobley back down to the 4 for stretches to go bigger again. Or Rasheer Fleming to slot in at the 4 next to Mobley if he falls in the draft.

slap a reasonable catastrophic protection on the ORL pick (Top 3 or 5) and I'm in...but not sure LAL needs to be attaching so much draft equity with LBJ coming back (even if he's 50). Allen is great, but not tremendous value to LAL beyond that. Hunter had a good year but he was historically a negative value, Okoro too...not down on them, just questioning the draft equity. I don't think LAL moves off LBJ unless he asks.

axeman23 wrote:...Lebron hopefully reins in Mitchell-ball a bit...

by replacing it with LeBron-ball?, lol.

wouldn't do it if i'm CLE.
1) LeBron doesn't want to be here.
2) The defense is absolutely atrocious.
3) Completely gutting the depth.
4) Eliminates the ball movement that actually makes the team both special and fun to watch.
5) Unless I'm missing something, the ceiling is basically the LeBron/AD Lakers now with even older LeBron.

Negative percent chance the Lakers are attaching Knecht, an unprotected pick AND a pick swap to facilitate LeBron to Cleveland when Jarrett Allen is coming in return. This is borderline lockable.

Dont think cleveland should mess this much with their team tbh

Silly trade for Cleveland. How you can be confident in LBJ and Suggs being more impactful than Garland, Allen, and Hunter? Sure, there are some picks there, but at least the one is nullified by Tyson being included.

tidho wrote:

axeman23 wrote:...Lebron hopefully reins in Mitchell-ball a bit...

by replacing it with LeBron-ball?, lol.

wouldn't do it if i'm CLE.
1) LeBron doesn't want to be here.
2) The defense is absolutely atrocious.
3) Completely gutting the depth.
4) Eliminates the ball movement that actually makes the team both special and fun to watch.
5) Unless I'm missing something, the ceiling is basically the LeBron/AD Lakers now with even older LeBron.

TBH, I didn't see Hunter's name at the start. Okoro and Tyson are clearly expendable for now, and it seems like most Cavs fans are happy enough to dump Garland and Allen to keep Mitchell. I'd prefer to move Mitchell and keep the other 2 (Allen and Garland), or move Allen in a seperate deal (maybe for a more reliable 3/4, to slide Mobley to the 5.) Also with Suggs' money going down as the cap goes up, and (I'm assuming) Lebron taking a paycut for a year or 2 to finish off where things started, it would seem to leave a bit more room around the edges for tinkering.

As for your points:

1. I guess it would be something to be discussed before making the deal, right? If he then stated he didn't want to be here, the deal is OBVIOUSLY a non-starter.

2. The guard defense would improve trading Garland for Suggs, Okoro is pretty much a regular season innings-eater, Tyson hardly played, and like I said, I didn't see Hunter's name in the OP.

3. As above, didn't see Hunters name, and you'd still be getting 2 starters for 2 starters, with Knecht being an able enough, although downgraded, 6th man.

4. WHAT ball movement, in the PLAYOFFS, where it MATTERS? Mitchell to himself off the backboard? The guards playing keep-away from Mobley and Allen to launch ONE stupid 3 after ANOTHER??? Game 5 where we were eliminated, Mitchell had 25 shots (NOT including the attempts where he was sent to the line...), with ONE friggin ASSIST! It's like watching "Honey, I shrunk the Kobe!". After the 1st quarter, JA was 3/3, Mobley was 3/5, Garland/Strus/Mitch combined 4/13. Now, I'm no MATHS WIZ, but it would SEEM like getting the ball to the big men was working, no? Second quarter: 1/1 from Mobley, 1/2 from Allen, 1 of EIGHT from the guards! So after that first half where we had Allen shooting at 80%, Mobley shooting at 67%, and our guards combining to shoot 25%, WHAT shall we do in the 2nd half? "Oh, more of those 25% shooters, please!" Allen got 1 more shot the rest of the GAME, Mobley got 6 (which he managed to hit at 67% again...), while again being outshot handily by our guards (Garland 7 attempts, Strus 8, with zero makes, and Mitchell taking 15??? Oh, but don't worry, Mitchell upped his game in the 2nd half to the GLORIOUS % of... 36%??? You switch Mobley and Mitchell's attempts, we likely win the game. You switch Allens attempts with Garland or Strus', we likely win the game. So, yes, it seems the was "ball-movement" there, as LONG as you weren't over 6'8 and embarrassing the others with your shooting.

5. Suggs if healthy is an All-Defensive guard. Knecht, if nothing else. Is a 3 point threat with more height and length than Garland on the defensive end. Lebron in Cleveland could concieveably be a third option distributor/defender which he was actually starting to turn into on the Lakers with Luka/Reaves taking on more of the offensive load. I'd definately lessen his minutes, though. And Mobley by the end of the season will be a 2-time All Defensive 1st team from 4 years. With all due respect to AD, I take Mobley, and the gap widens almost daily as AD's body (unfortunately) breaks down... Also the fact we're in the pick situation that resembles the Lakers is again, the Mitchell trade. I wanted to keep going with the pre-Mitchell team myself (DEFINATELY swapping out Sexton for a longer 3nD guard/swingman), but what's done is done now. I'd also be willing to run it back again also and hope for better health/a bargain signing or 2, but again, the reason we're fishing around in the bargain is, again, the Mitchell trade. ALL we had to do was let the Knicks or Nets blow their assets on him: just do NOTHING. How hard could it have been to NOT pick up the phone?

axeman23 wrote:Mitchell had 25 shots (NOT including the attempts where he was sent to the line...), with ONE friggin ASSIST! It's like watching "Honey, I shrunk the Kobe!".

Idk if you made that up but

axeman23 wrote:

tidho wrote:

axeman23 wrote:...Lebron hopefully reins in Mitchell-ball a bit...

by replacing it with LeBron-ball?, lol.

wouldn't do it if i'm CLE.
1) LeBron doesn't want to be here.
2) The defense is absolutely atrocious.
3) Completely gutting the depth.
4) Eliminates the ball movement that actually makes the team both special and fun to watch.
5) Unless I'm missing something, the ceiling is basically the LeBron/AD Lakers now with even older LeBron.

TBH, I didn't see Hunter's name at the start. Okoro and Tyson are clearly expendable for now, and it seems like most Cavs fans are happy enough to dump Garland and Allen to keep Mitchell. I'd prefer to move Mitchell and keep the other 2 (Allen and Garland), or move Allen in a seperate deal (maybe for a more reliable 3/4, to slide Mobley to the 5.) Also with Suggs' money going down as the cap goes up, and (I'm assuming) Lebron taking a paycut for a year or 2 to finish off where things started, it would seem to leave a bit more room around the edges for tinkering.

As for your points:

1. I guess it would be something to be discussed before making the deal, right? If he then stated he didn't want to be here, the deal is OBVIOUSLY a non-starter.

2. The guard defense would improve trading Garland for Suggs, Okoro is pretty much a regular season innings-eater, Tyson hardly played, and like I said, I didn't see Hunter's name in the OP.

3. As above, didn't see Hunters name, and you'd still be getting 2 starters for 2 starters, with Knecht being an able enough, although downgraded, 6th man.

4. WHAT ball movement, in the PLAYOFFS, where it MATTERS? Mitchell to himself off the backboard? The guards playing keep-away from Mobley and Allen to launch ONE stupid 3 after ANOTHER??? Game 5 where we were eliminated, Mitchell had 25 shots (NOT including the attempts where he was sent to the line...), with ONE friggin ASSIST! It's like watching "Honey, I shrunk the Kobe!". After the 1st quarter, JA was 3/3, Mobley was 3/5, Garland/Strus/Mitch combined 4/13. Now, I'm no MATHS WIZ, but it would SEEM like getting the ball to the big men was working, no? Second quarter: 1/1 from Mobley, 1/2 from Allen, 1 of EIGHT from the guards! So after that first half where we had Allen shooting at 80%, Mobley shooting at 67%, and our guards combining to shoot 25%, WHAT shall we do in the 2nd half? "Oh, more of those 25% shooters, please!" Allen got 1 more shot the rest of the GAME, Mobley got 6 (which he managed to hit at 67% again...), while again being outshot handily by our guards (Garland 7 attempts, Strus 8, with zero makes, and Mitchell taking 15??? Oh, but don't worry, Mitchell upped his game in the 2nd half to the GLORIOUS % of... 36%??? You switch Mobley and Mitchell's attempts, we likely win the game. You switch Allens attempts with Garland or Strus', we likely win the game. So, yes, it seems the was "ball-movement" there, as LONG as you weren't over 6'8 and embarrassing the others with your shooting.

5. Suggs if healthy is an All-Defensive guard. Knecht, if nothing else. Is a 3 point threat with more height and length than Garland on the defensive end. Lebron in Cleveland could concieveably be a third option distributor/defender which he was actually starting to turn into on the Lakers with Luka/Reaves taking on more of the offensive load. I'd definately lessen his minutes, though. And Mobley by the end of the season will be a 2-time All Defensive 1st team from 4 years. With all due respect to AD, I take Mobley, and the gap widens almost daily as AD's body (unfortunately) breaks down... Also the fact we're in the pick situation that resembles the Lakers is again, the Mitchell trade. I wanted to keep going with the pre-Mitchell team myself (DEFINATELY swapping out Sexton for a longer 3nD guard/swingman), but what's done is done now. I'd also be willing to run it back again also and hope for better health/a bargain signing or 2, but again, the reason we're fishing around in the bargain is, again, the Mitchell trade. ALL we had to do was let the Knicks or Nets blow their assets on him: just do NOTHING. How hard could it have been to NOT pick up the phone?

Can you tell me what Garland's career playoff numbers are? Can you tell me what Garland's playoff numbers were this year? Can you please explain to me in what world Garland on the perimeter is leading this team better than Mitchell?

Cleveland's playoff problems begin with Garland, not Mitchell. Garland has not come through. He needs to be better.