Page 1 of 3
Bucks Fans: What Do You Want/Need From a Giannis Trade?
Posted: Fri May 23, 2025 11:47 pm
by NYG
Flat out, Bucks fans... If Giannis were to get traded what do you need to get in return?
I think defining the goal will help us out.
Re: Bucks Fans: What Do You Want/Need From a Giannis Trade?
Posted: Sat May 24, 2025 12:49 am
by One_and_Done
The Bucks fans aren't going to be happy if Giannis is traded period, and I wouldn't be in their shoes either, so until he demands a trade this question isn't going to yield helpful inputs. You probably need to include the proviso that he asks for a trade to team X. That will help get the asks to the right baseline.
As a non-Bucks fan, who thinks he won't ask out, my hunch would be a trade to the Spurs for Castle, filler, and 5-7 picks (none of which are the #2 this year). You'd assume the picks would include the #14, the 27 Hawks pick, some swaps (SA has some tasty swaps they can utilise, including with the Hawks & Kings), etc. Which picks would affect how many.
Re: Bucks Fans: What Do You Want/Need From a Giannis Trade?
Posted: Sat May 24, 2025 1:15 am
by mcfly1204
The World? In all seriousness, I would expect most fans to hold out hope until after the fact/it's too late.
Re: Bucks Fans: What Do You Want/Need From a Giannis Trade?
Posted: Sat May 24, 2025 1:21 am
by wemby
Trades have more to do with the circumstances and the urgencies of the teams involved than with the player himself, that's why you sometimes see crazy overpays and others, incomprehensible gifts. So if a team wants to pry Giannis from an unwilling Bucks, you'll see the package some of their fans are expecting. If it is Giannis who asks out and it is to a specific team, then you will still see a nice return but nowhere near the haul some are expecting. So this question may get answers, but they won´t be helpful without proper context.
Re: Bucks Fans: What Do You Want/Need From a Giannis Trade?
Posted: Sat May 24, 2025 1:24 am
by Devilanche
They should be asking for everything . Until he clearly ask out , he’s not available.
Re: Bucks Fans: What Do You Want/Need From a Giannis Trade?
Posted: Sat May 24, 2025 1:36 am
by Chinook
mcfly1204 wrote:The World? In all seriousness, I would expect most fans to hold out hope until after the fact/it's too late.
It's like, "If you're not in a place to emotionally consider a hypothetical Giannis trade, then a forum that is 90 percent hypothetical trades probably isn't the healthiest place for you to be." Playing the game of this forum doesn't affect the chances of Giannis being dealt. I know that's obvious, but from experience I know that opening your mind to the idea of trades can feel like giving up on your star player, and at some point you have to internalize that this forum doesn't even rise to the level of fantasy basketball or 2K when it comes to real-life impact and that you may as well give a good show if you're going to be here.
Re: Bucks Fans: What Do You Want/Need From a Giannis Trade?
Posted: Sat May 24, 2025 12:25 pm
by NYG
Chinook wrote:mcfly1204 wrote:The World? In all seriousness, I would expect most fans to hold out hope until after the fact/it's too late.
It's like, "If you're not in a place to emotionally consider a hypothetical Giannis trade, then a forum that is 90 percent hypothetical trades probably isn't the healthiest place for you to be." Playing the game of this forum doesn't affect the chances of Giannis being dealt. I know that's obvious, but from experience I know that opening your mind to the idea of trades can feel like giving up on your star player, and at some point you have to internalize that this forum doesn't even rise to the level of fantasy basketball or 2K when it comes to real-life impact and that you may as well give a good show if you're going to be here.
Yeah this is a trade discussion forum and I don't think the idea that Giannis requests a trade is outrageous. If it's just Bucks fans denying any trade concept then what's the point of this forum?
I figure we need to at least know what they would expect under the premise that he asks out to avoid every Giannis thread being pointless otherwise what's the point of a hypothetical trade forum?
Re: Bucks Fans: What Do You Want/Need From a Giannis Trade?
Posted: Sat May 24, 2025 12:37 pm
by Texas Chuck
Chinook wrote:It's like, "If you're not in a place to emotionally consider a hypothetical Giannis trade, then a forum that is 90 percent hypothetical trades probably isn't the healthiest place for you to be." Playing the game of this forum doesn't affect the chances of Giannis being dealt.
Chinook wrote:How many threads does this make where third-party fans propose a Giannis-to-SA trade that neither Spurs fans nor Bucks fans want? yet we're in here spending our finite time on this planet arguing over which side shouldn't want it the most.
.
Re: Bucks Fans: What Do You Want/Need From a Giannis Trade?
Posted: Sat May 24, 2025 1:11 pm
by Chinook
Texas Chuck wrote:Chinook wrote:It's like, "If you're not in a place to emotionally consider a hypothetical Giannis trade, then a forum that is 90 percent hypothetical trades probably isn't the healthiest place for you to be." Playing the game of this forum doesn't affect the chances of Giannis being dealt.
Chinook wrote:How many threads does this make where third-party fans propose a Giannis-to-SA trade that neither Spurs fans nor Bucks fans want? yet we're in here spending our finite time on this planet arguing over which side shouldn't want it the most.
.
Yes, my point is that there's all this fighting that comes from these threads. A fan will make a thread saying, "The Spurs should trade for Giannis", and then a fight will break out between Spurs fans and Bucks fans about which side is being delusional about their proposed price when in reality we can both just not like it and move on.
My annoyance with Giannis-to-SA trades is that they're basically all the same, and the arguments against them are the same. Like sure, I don't like the trades, but I'm basically going to just say that and move on. But for all the talk about how "28 teams would be that offer", we don't see the creative energies of RGM come up with offers from most teams. It's as if there's reporting that the Spurs are interested rather than folks "reckoning" they should be with reasoning I've pushed against.
So yeah, saying no to the same deal over and over isn't a problem. It's the infighting that happens between two groups which fundamentally agree on the question that is weird.
Re: Bucks Fans: What Do You Want/Need From a Giannis Trade?
Posted: Sat May 24, 2025 1:29 pm
by esvl
I expect the Bucks fans to demand elite assets back for their elite asset.
Re: Bucks Fans: What Do You Want/Need From a Giannis Trade?
Posted: Sat May 24, 2025 1:34 pm
by NYG
So excluding Luka... the most recent real life star being traded on Giannis' level I can think of being traded is Kevin Durant
If you count the Mikal Bridges follow-up deal to NY... you're looking at...
Cam Johnson
Filler
9 1sts (8 unprotected)
2 swaps (both unprotected)
3 2nds
So basically any Giannis offer would need to offer in the ball park of a useful younger downgrade at the same position (Cam Johnson in the KD example), 9 1sts with 8 unprotected, 2 unprotected swaps and 3 second rounders.
How many teams could even offer or create via multi-team deal that kind of value outside of OKC?
Re: Bucks Fans: What Do You Want/Need From a Giannis Trade?
Posted: Sat May 24, 2025 1:42 pm
by bkohler
Chinook wrote:a forum that is 90 percent hypothetical trades probably isn't the healthiest place for you to be.
I’m not sure any of us on here are going to be the be example of healthy moderation when it comes to our fandom.
Re: Bucks Fans: What Do You Want/Need From a Giannis Trade?
Posted: Sat May 24, 2025 1:48 pm
by jayjaysee
NYG wrote:So excluding Luka... the most recent real life star being traded on Giannis' level I can think of being traded is Kevin Durant
If you count the Mikal Bridges follow-up deal to NY... you're looking at...
Cam Johnson
Filler
9 1sts (8 unprotected)
2 swaps (both unprotected)
3 2nds
So basically any Giannis offer would need to offer in the ball park of a useful younger downgrade at the same position (Cam Johnson in the KD example), 9 1sts with 8 unprotected, 2 unprotected swaps and 3 second rounders.
How many teams could even offer or create via multi-team deal that kind of value outside of OKC?
It’s weird because I really want to say a GM making and stupid trade shouldn’t be a precedent.
But then people would ask if I was talking about the Bridges trade or the KD trade.. or the Luka trade.
Phoenix could’ve just sat still and waited for the right move. But then Dallas could’ve had Brunson and Luka able have had the assets to build around them..
Re: Bucks Fans: What Do You Want/Need From a Giannis Trade?
Posted: Sat May 24, 2025 1:49 pm
by Chinook
bkohler wrote:Chinook wrote:a forum that is 90 percent hypothetical trades probably isn't the healthiest place for you to be.
I’m not sure any of us on here are going to be the be example of healthy moderation when it comes to our fandom.
No, but I think most of us understands the point of this forum. Some of us disagree with some assumptions that underlay it -- I'm pretty ardent about it. But we get it's for fun. But when you're a fan of a team that's potentially about to lose their star, it stops feeling as fun. I know that from experience. It's also somewhat less fun when your team gets shoe-horned into only making one move and folks just keep talking about that trade even if it doesn't make sense. I know that from the past two off-seasons.
So empathize with Bucks fans, and as a person whose team is on the other side of the speculation, I double want the trades to be contained to a single thread rather than cropping up everywhere.
Re: Bucks Fans: What Do You Want/Need From a Giannis Trade?
Posted: Sat May 24, 2025 1:56 pm
by NYG
NYG wrote:So excluding Luka... the most recent real life star being traded on Giannis' level I can think of being traded is Kevin Durant
If you count the Mikal Bridges follow-up deal to NY... you're looking at...
Cam Johnson
Filler
9 1sts (8 unprotected)
2 swaps (both unprotected)
3 2nds
So basically any Giannis offer would need to offer in the ball park of a useful younger downgrade at the same position (Cam Johnson in the KD example), 9 1sts with 8 unprotected, 2 unprotected swaps and 3 second rounders.
How many teams could even offer or create via multi-team deal that kind of value outside of OKC?
Question: Sengun (>, < or =) Cam?
Rockets can also generate 5 first rounders, 2 swaps and 3 second rounders without having to dip into any of their roster besides Sengun.
So by that logic, they would be 3 unprotected 1sts and 1 addtional Top 4 Protected 1st short... which of their players could generate that value from 3rd/4th teams?
Is Sengun, Sheppard, Jabari, 5 1sts (including 9th Overall), 2 Swaps and 3 2nds (>, < or =) Cam, 9 1sts, 2 Swaps and 3 2nds?
Houston follows up with Green for Klay/Gafford
Giannis/Tari/Brooks/Amen/FVV
Gafford/Cam/Klay
Re: Bucks Fans: What Do You Want/Need From a Giannis Trade?
Posted: Sat May 24, 2025 3:05 pm
by giberish
Of course the counterpoint to a Giannis trade is what do the next few years look like for the Bucks without a Giannis trade.
With their 2nd best player essentially out for next year I'd expect a 48 win team to drop to something like a 38 win team. Some bounce back the next year or two but with the age of the core and limited assets I'd expect something in the 40-45 win range. Those also assume no significant decline from Giannis, either due to injury or frustration with poor rosters.
So at what point does a Giannis return look better than that?
Re: Bucks Fans: What Do You Want/Need From a Giannis Trade?
Posted: Sat May 24, 2025 3:22 pm
by wemby
NYG wrote:Question: Sengun (>, < or =) Cam?
Rockets can also generate 5 first rounders, 2 swaps and 3 second rounders without having to dip into any of their roster besides Sengun.
So by that logic, they would be 3 unprotected 1sts and 1 addtional Top 4 Protected 1st short... which of their players could generate that value from 3rd/4th teams?
Is Sengun, Sheppard, Jabari, 5 1sts (including 9th Overall), 2 Swaps and 3 2nds (>, < or =) Cam, 9 1sts, 2 Swaps and 3 2nds?
Sengun >>>>> Cam Johnson, it's not really close. But, without any fear of being accused of bias as I'm not a Rockets fan, I'm pretty confident Rockets wouldn't put that package on the table for Giannis. It's probably Sengun + Jabari/Tari + EITHER Sheppard/9th pick + a couple extra picks at most, with Cam Whitmore possibly being valued at a decent pick if the Nets so choose. But I have a hard time seeing the Rockets going beyond that.
Re: Bucks Fans: What Do You Want/Need From a Giannis Trade?
Posted: Sat May 24, 2025 4:31 pm
by NYG
wemby wrote:NYG wrote:Question: Sengun (>, < or =) Cam?
Rockets can also generate 5 first rounders, 2 swaps and 3 second rounders without having to dip into any of their roster besides Sengun.
So by that logic, they would be 3 unprotected 1sts and 1 addtional Top 4 Protected 1st short... which of their players could generate that value from 3rd/4th teams?
Is Sengun, Sheppard, Jabari, 5 1sts (including 9th Overall), 2 Swaps and 3 2nds (>, < or =) Cam, 9 1sts, 2 Swaps and 3 2nds?
Sengun >>>>> Cam Johnson, it's not really close. But, without any fear of being accused of bias as I'm not a Rockets fan, I'm pretty confident Rockets wouldn't put that package on the table for Giannis. It's probably Sengun + Jabari/Tari + EITHER Sheppard/9th pick + a couple extra picks at most, with Cam Whitmore possibly being valued at a decent pick if the Nets so choose. But I have a hard time seeing the Rockets going beyond that.
Assuming neutral expiring matching salary is the filler...
How many picks is Sengun getting?
How many picks is Cam Johnson getting?
How many picks is Jabari getting?
Re: Bucks Fans: What Do You Want/Need From a Giannis Trade?
Posted: Sat May 24, 2025 4:40 pm
by WargamesX
NYG wrote:So excluding Luka... the most recent real life star being traded on Giannis' level I can think of being traded is Kevin Durant
If you count the Mikal Bridges follow-up deal to NY... you're looking at...
Cam Johnson
Filler
9 1sts (8 unprotected)
2 swaps (both unprotected)
3 2nds
So basically any Giannis offer would need to offer in the ball park of a useful younger downgrade at the same position (Cam Johnson in the KD example), 9 1sts with 8 unprotected, 2 unprotected swaps and 3 second rounders.
How many teams could even offer or create via multi-team deal that kind of value outside of OKC?
The same teams we always hear mentioned OKC, Spurs, Rockets….. and maybe the Pelicans though I think that the first season after the trade the Pelicans would likely be bad with Dejuante out.
Re: Bucks Fans: What Do You Want/Need From a Giannis Trade?
Posted: Sat May 24, 2025 8:49 pm
by jakecronus8
Reading the local tea leaves and it seems he’s not going anywhere.
Realistically, any possible deal was thwarted when San Antonio, Houston and Brooklyn didn’t get #1.
Those would’ve been the only teams with the combined assets along with #1 that could’ve gotten a convo going. Giannis is more valuable to the smallest market in the league than any other team and trading the best player in the franchise’s history would need the largest trade haul in history to justify what it means to the future of the franchise as well as the hit the bottom line takes with Giannis gone.