KD for Towns Suns/Knicks

[Astaluego]

1 x 1....
Suns get a younger star who's also one of Booker's best friends...
Knicks get their best player, while they're deep in the hunt for the championship.

I think trade, as it stands, is balanced, but do you think either side should add something?
What?

[brackdan70]

1 x 1....
Suns get a younger star who's also one of Booker's best friends...
Knicks get their best player, while they're deep in the hunt for the championship.

I think trade, as it stands, is balanced, but do you think either side should add something?
What?

Phoenix needs to send a ton of assets to make it fair.

[Astaluego]

1 x 1....
Suns get a younger star who's also one of Booker's best friends...
Knicks get their best player, while they're deep in the hunt for the championship.

I think trade, as it stands, is balanced, but do you think either side should add something?
What?

Phoenix needs to send a ton of assets to make it fair.

As a reference (without speculation) regarding Towns' value, we know that Randle/DDV and a protected FRP were worth it. I doubt that after being exposed on defense (nothing new), his value will increase. Is KD worth it? Randle/Donte and a FRP? In my opinion, yes. Anyway, this could be irrelevant. KD is a better player right now, in my opinion, without a doubt. At least he's less flawed.

[brackdan70]

1 x 1....
Suns get a younger star who's also one of Booker's best friends...
Knicks get their best player, while they're deep in the hunt for the championship.

I think trade, as it stands, is balanced, but do you think either side should add something?
What?

Phoenix needs to send a ton of assets to make it fair.

As a reference (without speculation) regarding Towns' value, we know that Randle/DDV and a protected FRP were worth it. I doubt that after being exposed on defense (nothing new), his value will increase. Is KD worth it? Randle/Donte and a FRP? In my opinion, yes. Anyway, this could be irrelevant. KD is a better player right now, in my opinion, without a doubt. At least he's less flawed.

If we look at impact stats, Towns is much better than the narrative “exposed on Defense”
I’d value Towns much higher. Maybe that’s just me.

[R-DAWG]

PJ Tucker would need to be included to a 3rd team to make the trade legal. Shouldn’t be an issue with NY/PHX throwing in cash to cover the salary - but both teams are limited with 2nd rd picks.

There was a version of this trade that had pick #29 going to NY

It’s a simple concept - NY has a higher ceiling for a shorter period of time, Pheonix gives themselves more time to re-set around Booker.

[NYG]

1 x 1....
Suns get a younger star who's also one of Booker's best friends...
Knicks get their best player, while they're deep in the hunt for the championship.

I think trade, as it stands, is balanced, but do you think either side should add something?
What?

Phoenix needs to send a ton of assets to make it fair.

As a reference (without speculation) regarding Towns' value, we know that Randle/DDV and a protected FRP were worth it. I doubt that after being exposed on defense (nothing new), his value will increase. Is KD worth it? Randle/Donte and a FRP? In my opinion, yes. Anyway, this could be irrelevant. KD is a better player right now, in my opinion, without a doubt. At least he's less flawed.

I mean... Minnesota would probably give Randle, DDV and a 1st (or Dillingham?) for KD if that's all it took.

[Astaluego]

Phoenix needs to send a ton of assets to make it fair.

As a reference (without speculation) regarding Towns' value, we know that Randle/DDV and a protected FRP were worth it. I doubt that after being exposed on defense (nothing new), his value will increase. Is KD worth it? Randle/Donte and a FRP? In my opinion, yes. Anyway, this could be irrelevant. KD is a better player right now, in my opinion, without a doubt. At least he's less flawed.

If we look at impact stats, Towns is much better than the narrative “exposed on Defense”
I’d value Towns much higher. Maybe that’s just me.

I don't think Towns' poor defense is a narrative, it goes along with the eye test, for example yesterday he appeared in the photo in every defensive error... he is very careless... as soon as he sits down, the Knicks defense immediately becomes elite (although it is true that on offense, the opposite effect happens and without him on the court, they lack spark and become a mundane team) aside from that, the Knicks (in my opinion) need someone else who can create... KD simply I think is a better fit... he gives them that creation, maintains the space/shooting and elite scoring without hurting them so much on defense

[Saberestar]

I think that would be a fair trade for both sides.

[WargamesX]

Scoring isn’t the issue. Defense is, but behind that the real issue is inflated salaries affecting the roster depth.

The Knicks aren’t trading for KD. It’s the same issues we are seeing with KAT and unlike KAT whose value is still good because he was all team NBA, KD could come here and be like PG in Philly where we can’t move him.

[Astaluego]

Scoring isn’t the issue. Defense is, but behind that the real issue is inflated salaries affecting the roster depth.

The Knicks aren’t trading for KD. It’s the same issues we are seeing with KAT and unlike KAT whose value is still good because he was all team NBA, KD could come here and be like PG in Philly where we can’t move him.

respectfully but I disagree, (but ignoring my opinion / eye test and watching what the pros do) yesterday Towns with the Knicks playing the most important game of the season, limits Towns to 28 minutes (played less than Robinson!!), honestly, can you imagine a situation where KD is so damaging to his team that he is limited to those minutes? .. in my opinion KD still has a positive impact on the court in any situation because he can impact the game in multiple ways, he can handle / pass has a higher basketball IQ and even at 36 years old is a better defender ... It is very possible and given how close the games have been, this series would be 2-0 for NY if they replace KD with Towns ... we can discuss who has more trade value (mainly due to age / health etc) but who is the best player? I think it is not a matter of taste or sympathy, it is evident (to me) that currently KD is a much better playoff player

[WargamesX]

Scoring isn’t the issue. Defense is, but behind that the real issue is inflated salaries affecting the roster depth.

The Knicks aren’t trading for KD. It’s the same issues we are seeing with KAT and unlike KAT whose value is still good because he was all team NBA, KD could come here and be like PG in Philly where we can’t move him.

respectfully but I disagree, (but ignoring my opinion / eye test and watching what the pros do) yesterday Towns with the Knicks playing the most important game of the season, limits Towns to 28 minutes (played less than Robinson!!), honestly, can you imagine a situation where KD is so damaging to his team that he is limited to those minutes? .. in my opinion KD still has a positive impact on the court in any situation because he can impact the game in multiple ways, he can handle / pass has a higher basketball IQ and even at 36 years old is a better defender ... It is very possible and given how close the games have been, this series would be 2-0 for NY if they replace KD with Towns ... we can discuss who has more trade value (mainly due to age / health etc) but who is the best player? I think it is not a matter of taste or sympathy, it is evident (to me) that currently KD is a much better playoff player

I don’t think they can risk the success of their championship window on the belief that KD won’t regress + they need depth and defense.

I seen a lot of KAT for Giannis or KAT for KD trade scenarios online and as crazy as it sounds I think the Knicks would be better trading KAT for multiple players , some small draft compensation, and maybe to get under the luxury Tax so they have the NTP-MLE to use this summer.

[R-DAWG]

Scoring isn’t the issue. Defense is, but behind that the real issue is inflated salaries affecting the roster depth.

The Knicks aren’t trading for KD. It’s the same issues we are seeing with KAT and unlike KAT whose value is still good because he was all team NBA, KD could come here and be like PG in Philly where we can’t move him.

respectfully but I disagree, (but ignoring my opinion / eye test and watching what the pros do) yesterday Towns with the Knicks playing the most important game of the season, limits Towns to 28 minutes (played less than Robinson!!), honestly, can you imagine a situation where KD is so damaging to his team that he is limited to those minutes? .. in my opinion KD still has a positive impact on the court in any situation because he can impact the game in multiple ways, he can handle / pass has a higher basketball IQ and even at 36 years old is a better defender ... It is very possible and given how close the games have been, this series would be 2-0 for NY if they replace KD with Towns ... we can discuss who has more trade value (mainly due to age / health etc) but who is the best player? I think it is not a matter of taste or sympathy, it is evident (to me) that currently KD is a much better playoff player

I don’t think they can risk the success of their championship window on the belief that KD won’t regress + they need depth and defense.

I seen a lot of KAT for Giannis or KAT for KD trade scenarios online and as crazy as it sounds I think the Knicks would be better trading KAT for multiple players , some small draft compensation, and maybe to get under the luxury Tax so they have the NTP-MLE to use this summer.

Do the Knicks have a championship window? Because it looks like they are closer to losing to Detroit than beating Indiana.

[WargamesX]

respectfully but I disagree, (but ignoring my opinion / eye test and watching what the pros do) yesterday Towns with the Knicks playing the most important game of the season, limits Towns to 28 minutes (played less than Robinson!!), honestly, can you imagine a situation where KD is so damaging to his team that he is limited to those minutes? .. in my opinion KD still has a positive impact on the court in any situation because he can impact the game in multiple ways, he can handle / pass has a higher basketball IQ and even at 36 years old is a better defender ... It is very possible and given how close the games have been, this series would be 2-0 for NY if they replace KD with Towns ... we can discuss who has more trade value (mainly due to age / health etc) but who is the best player? I think it is not a matter of taste or sympathy, it is evident (to me) that currently KD is a much better playoff player

I don’t think they can risk the success of their championship window on the belief that KD won’t regress + they need depth and defense.

I seen a lot of KAT for Giannis or KAT for KD trade scenarios online and as crazy as it sounds I think the Knicks would be better trading KAT for multiple players , some small draft compensation, and maybe to get under the luxury Tax so they have the NTP-MLE to use this summer.

Do the Knicks have a championship window? Because it looks like they are closer to losing to Detroit than beating Indiana.

They got a core that made it to the ECF the first year together. There is a better argument for keeping KAT than there is for trading for KD. The strongest argument for moving KAT is they need pieces for depth reasons cause twice now we ran into the pacers in the playoffs and lack depth (and coaching) were the two things that led to our defeat.

[Slim Charless]

Scoring isn’t the issue. Defense is, but behind that the real issue is inflated salaries affecting the roster depth.

The Knicks aren’t trading for KD. It’s the same issues we are seeing with KAT and unlike KAT whose value is still good because he was all team NBA, KD could come here and be like PG in Philly where we can’t move him.

So now Durant is equal to Podcast P?

I disagree. Also I'm not sure trading for bench pieces even makes a difference as Thibs kills his starters and always has no matter where he goes. Extra guys would just sit.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Scoring isn’t the issue. Defense is, but behind that the real issue is inflated salaries affecting the roster depth.

The Knicks aren’t trading for KD. It’s the same issues we are seeing with KAT and unlike KAT whose value is still good because he was all team NBA, KD could come here and be like PG in Philly where we can’t move him.

C'mon man. Everyone knows that KD (even at 37 yrs old) is still a much better defender than KAT. And on offense, although their statistical production is similar, KD is clearly more efficient and a more elite creator. I mean he's still g up near MVP level production, while being the two way player that KAT just isn't.

And that's not to even mention the financial benefits for the Knicks cap siting in getting off of KATs long term money in a KD trade with KDs' money coming off the books as soon as 26. Obviously an important benefit for a 2nd apron team once all costs/ increases/ extensions are tabulated.

The value would clearly be in New York's favor here. I can understand preferring to try and trade KAT for other pieces. But those pieces aren't honestly likely to get you closer to a championship than KD would anyways.

[WargamesX]

Scoring isn’t the issue. Defense is, but behind that the real issue is inflated salaries affecting the roster depth.

The Knicks aren’t trading for KD. It’s the same issues we are seeing with KAT and unlike KAT whose value is still good because he was all team NBA, KD could come here and be like PG in Philly where we can’t move him.

C'mon man. Everyone knows that KD (even at 37 yrs old) is still a much better defender than KAT. And on offense, although their statistical production is similar, KD is clearly more efficient and a more elite creator. I mean he's still g up near MVP level production, while being the two way player that KAT just isn't.

And that's not to even mention the financial benefits for the Knicks cap siting in getting off of KATs long term money in a KD trade with KDs' money coming off the books as soon as 26. Obviously an important benefit for a 2nd apron team once all costs/ increases/ extensions are tabulated.

The value would clearly be in New York's favor here. I can understand preferring to try and trade KAT for other pieces. But those pieces aren't honestly likely to get you closer to a championship than KD would anyways.

KD at 37 years old is going to stay healthy playing heavy minutes for Thibs in both the regular season and playoffs? I wouldn’t bet the Knicks success on it and the FO shouldn’t either. We seen multiple times the Knicks get an aging star and it not work out and this would just be another example of that.

Also I don’t think the Knicks want to lose the KAT caphold. They are working with a 2-4 year window, losing 50 million that could be on the roster wouldnt help them compete in that time frame.

[taikibansei]

1 x 1....
Suns get a younger star who's also one of Booker's best friends...
Knicks get their best player, while they're deep in the hunt for the championship.

I think trade, as it stands, is balanced, but do you think either side should add something?
What?

Phoenix needs to send a ton of assets to make it fair.

The Knicks won't be doing this trade, as it doesn't significantly improve their team short-term or long-term, but the idea that Phoenix can/should get a "ton of assets" in addition to getting the younger, healthier, nearly equally productive KAT in exchange for the aging, injured, disgruntled non-leader (by his own admission) KD is laughable. KD was not substantially better than KAT last season, is turning 37, has had multiple, serious leg injuries, and cannot be counted on to play significant minutes over a full season moving forward. And yes, I realize that KD is a first ballot HOF candidate while KAT may not ever get in--I still want KAT now at this stage in their respective careers.

Finally, I've seen multiple proposals on this board involving using KD, Embiid and Zion in trades as positive value, with often significant returns anticipated. I'm going to argue again here that especially Embiid and Zion (assuming they can even be traded) are returning nothing positive, and that KD (the most valuable of the three) might return either an all-star starter or draft capital (to offset a player dump) but not both. I.e., these three players are not nearly as valuable as they might appear on paper.

We'll see this summer if I'm right!

[taikibansei]

Scoring isn’t the issue. Defense is, but behind that the real issue is inflated salaries affecting the roster depth.

The Knicks aren’t trading for KD. It’s the same issues we are seeing with KAT and unlike KAT whose value is still good because he was all team NBA, KD could come here and be like PG in Philly where we can’t move him.

C'mon man. Everyone knows that KD (even at 37 yrs old) is still a much better defender than KAT. And on offense, although their statistical production is similar, KD is clearly more efficient and a more elite creator. I mean he's still g up near MVP level production, while being the two way player that KAT just isn't.

And that's not to even mention the financial benefits for the Knicks cap siting in getting off of KATs long term money in a KD trade with KDs' money coming off the books as soon as 26. Obviously an important benefit for a 2nd apron team once all costs/ increases/ extensions are tabulated.

The value would clearly be in New York's favor here. I can understand preferring to try and trade KAT for other pieces. But those pieces aren't honestly likely to get you closer to a championship than KD would anyways.

Nothing is clear about any of this. KAT and KD were nearly a wash last season--e.g., in addition to the nearly identical counting stats, KAT was +3.4 epm last season, KD +3.1 epm, etc. You don't pay additional assets to get the older player back in such an even exchange.

But more to the point, KAT remains an incredible leader on this team. The other players look up to him and feed off his energy on and off the court. KD brings none of this back.

[taikibansei]

respectfully but I disagree, (but ignoring my opinion / eye test and watching what the pros do) yesterday Towns with the Knicks playing the most important game of the season, limits Towns to 28 minutes (played less than Robinson!!), honestly, can you imagine a situation where KD is so damaging to his team that he is limited to those minutes? .. in my opinion KD still has a positive impact on the court in any situation because he can impact the game in multiple ways, he can handle / pass has a higher basketball IQ and even at 36 years old is a better defender ... It is very possible and given how close the games have been, this series would be 2-0 for NY if they replace KD with Towns ... we can discuss who has more trade value (mainly due to age / health etc) but who is the best player? I think it is not a matter of taste or sympathy, it is evident (to me) that currently KD is a much better playoff player

I don’t think they can risk the success of their championship window on the belief that KD won’t regress + they need depth and defense.

I seen a lot of KAT for Giannis or KAT for KD trade scenarios online and as crazy as it sounds I think the Knicks would be better trading KAT for multiple players , some small draft compensation, and maybe to get under the luxury Tax so they have the NTP-MLE to use this summer.

Do the Knicks have a championship window? Because it looks like they are closer to losing to Detroit than beating Indiana.

The Knicks literally got healthy the week before the season ended--major pieces (Robinson, Brunson, Precious) out for months--and we still came together these playoffs sufficiently to knock off the defending champions. Nobody expected that this season--not me, not you, not anybody.

As I've written before, this team was slapped together just before this season started and struggled with injuries (not to mention growing pains from new player roles)...and a number of questionable coaching decisions as well. Given this, the fact that we've still gotten this far--beat a good Detroit team, beat a great Boston team, and now down 1-2 but competitive against a good (and extremely well-coached) Indiana team--is amazing (and clearly demonstrative that this team can compete at the highest levels).

Do we need to tweak the bench? Likely. Would trading Mikal, Robinson and/or Precious for better fitting pieces help? Maybe. (Regarding the latter, I question the coaching--it's on Thibs that our too predictable offense stagnates against disciplined teams, that as strategy we sometimes don't bother even challenging shooters at the 3-point line, and that our bench still enters games looking like deer caught in headlights.) That said, as we're proving each and every night, the core is sound.

[dcstanley]

Scoring isn’t the issue. Defense is, but behind that the real issue is inflated salaries affecting the roster depth.

The Knicks aren’t trading for KD. It’s the same issues we are seeing with KAT and unlike KAT whose value is still good because he was all team NBA, KD could come here and be like PG in Philly where we can’t move him.

The idea is that KD would be playing the 4 allowing the Knicks to start Robinson or another rim protecting center. KD's size and supplemental rim protection along with OG sliding down to 3 certainly makes the Knicks defense better.

But yeah, too much of a gamble for the Knicks to make this trade. If KD was 34 instead of 37 I would love it for them.