Nets/Spurs

[louc1970]

What would the Nets have to offer for the Spurs to give up #2?
I would assume #8 is involved, but what else? Would there be a swap of players or just picks?

[zimpy27]

Cam J would interest Spurs

[facothomas22]

Likely Cam Johnson + the 8th pick + 19th pick + 26th pick + atleast 2 of the Knicks future 1st round picks would likely be the asking price if the Spurs going move this far down in the draft order.

[wemby]

Cam Johnson is a near 30 year old role player, he isn't anywhere near worth moving from a top tier prospect like Harper, to someone like Knueppel or Essengue. Looking for spare change in their pockets isn't going to make up the difference. Of all the possible Harper trade scenarios, the Nets are probably the one I like the least (I would not trade back farther than 5).

[Texas Chuck]

Cam Johnson is a near 30 year old role player, he isn't anywhere near worth moving from a top tier prospect like Harper, to someone like Knueppel or Essengue. Looking for spare change in their pockets isn't going to make up the difference. Of all the possible Harper trade scenarios, the Nets are probably the one I like the least (I would not trade back farther than 5).

I mean the proposals suggesting him also include a bunch of picks. So nobody is suggesting he alone moves you up from 8 to 2. Is he worth more than Keldon? Absolutely so why not take that value too since the Nets shouldn't care about teh worse player but the Spurs should care about the better one.

Now, I do agree with you that I'd have little interest in that offer, but the Johnson part is definitely a value add for the Spurs.

But I'm not interested in parting out 2. I'm keeping and making the pick or I'm including it for a proven stud.

[wemby]

Cam Johnson is a near 30 year old role player, he isn't anywhere near worth moving from a top tier prospect like Harper, to someone like Knueppel or Essengue. Looking for spare change in their pockets isn't going to make up the difference. Of all the possible Harper trade scenarios, the Nets are probably the one I like the least (I would not trade back farther than 5).

I mean the proposals suggesting him also include a bunch of picks. So nobody is suggesting he alone moves you up from 8 to 2. Is he worth more than Keldon? Absolutely so why not take that value too since the Nets shouldn't care about teh worse player but the Spurs should care about the better one.

Now, I do agree with you that I'd have little interest in that offer, but the Johnson part is definitely a value add for the Spurs.

But I'm not interested in parting out 2. I'm keeping and making the pick or I'm including it for a proven stud.

Yes, I understand every asset has value, and breaking up a more valuable asset into smaller ones makes sense for teams like the Suns who are desperate to make several moves with little means to do so. In the Spurs case, their top priority should be finding that 2nd star to grow alongside Wemby, and I think Harper has a great shot at it. They have other means to address deficits (rim protection, wing shooting and defense) and surely at some point you need to do something to address redundancies (Fox, Castle, Harper), but for the time being I'll settle for a less than optimal resource allocation if it increases the chances of finding the long term core. That is why I don't like the Nets offer, I think there's a tier break after 5 that I'm not willing to cross. If Spurs trade back, which I wouldn't do, at least I'd like one of Ace Bailey, Tre Johnson, or VJ Edgecombe. I feel a lot less confident about the rest of the class, at least in terms of star potential.

[One_and_Done]

What would the Nets have to offer for the Spurs to give up #2?
I would assume #8 is involved, but what else? Would there be a swap of players or just picks?

There is probably nothing the Nets could offer to get it. Sorry.

[Netaman]

this is the closest i've gotten to finding a way for it to make sense for Spurs.

Spurs get Jaylen Brown & Cam J for #2 and salary matching. Brown, Fox, Wemby, CamJ, plus Castle off bench all feel like players in well cast roles. Still have #14 and a bunch of future picks to keep building up.

then Nets then get #2 for #8 from Boston by eating a boatload of $. Boston gets Vassell, Keldon, Claxton plus add #8 as a second FRP this year to have a new group around White/Tatum in 2026.

nets could add more picks if need be, but i think it's reasonable for all sides if SAS can't get Giannis for whatever reason.

[WinterSoldier]

this is the closest i've gotten to finding a way for it to make sense for Spurs.

Spurs get Jaylen Brown & Cam J for #2 and salary matching. Brown, Fox, Wemby, CamJ, plus Castle off bench all feel like players in well cast roles. Still have #14 and a bunch of future picks to keep building up.

then Nets then get #2 for #8 from Boston by eating a boatload of $. Boston gets Vassell, Keldon, Claxton plus add #8 as a second FRP this year to have a new group around White/Tatum in 2026.

nets could add more picks if need be, but i think it's reasonable for all sides if SAS can't get Giannis for whatever reason.

In that trade scenario, I would think the Celtics would just take the #2 pick or try for a better return from another team.

[Netaman]

this is the closest i've gotten to finding a way for it to make sense for Spurs.

Spurs get Jaylen Brown & Cam J for #2 and salary matching. Brown, Fox, Wemby, CamJ, plus Castle off bench all feel like players in well cast roles. Still have #14 and a bunch of future picks to keep building up.

then Nets then get #2 for #8 from Boston by eating a boatload of $. Boston gets Vassell, Keldon, Claxton plus add #8 as a second FRP this year to have a new group around White/Tatum in 2026.

nets could add more picks if need be, but i think it's reasonable for all sides if SAS can't get Giannis for whatever reason.

In that trade scenario, I would think the Celtics would just take the #2 pick or try for a better return from another team.

Possible, I just don't think there is any other way to generate that much salary dumped.

Jrue's deal is pretty bad at 3 years @20%. That would either require eating an almost equally bad contract or attaching multiple future picks.

KP is movable as an expiring, but again who else is able to generate that much savings from $30m? The most cap room anyone other than Brooklyn has is $15m or so, so to get 50% savings on moving KP it may require a pick even though he's an expiring.

[Bornstellar]

Likely Cam Johnson + the 8th pick + 19th pick + 26th pick + atleast 2 of the Knicks future 1st round picks would likely be the asking price if the Spurs going move this far down in the draft order.

Basically something like this. I'm not entirely crazy about this trade but I think 5 firsts + Cam Johnson for the #2 in this draft would require some serious thought

[Tim Lehrbach]

I am not 100% opposed to moving off the #2 pick for the Spurs, but I'm pretty close to it.

A team in the top four (IMO) needs to be very careful trading down in this draft because the class simply isn't looking very impressive. Of course, one can apply that to Harper's Rutgers season, too, but as I have argued elsewhere, I think his talent is rare enough to accept that he's got a lot to learn. I have also made it known I do not rate his running mate, Ace Bailey, very favorably. Edgecombe and Johnson are fits for the Spurs, but I honestly think people are unreasonably clouded by the presence of Fox and Castle when they question Harper to San Antonio. If you believe Harper is going to be at or near his best case, those two are either complements to the dynamic duo of Wemby/Harper that you will boast, or they are gone for pieces that do complement. If you do not believe in Harper, sure, trade down or spend the pick on another high-upside gamble either out of the draft pool or on another roster. But do not forego the chance at a franchise-level talent using capital you rarely have in hand because of a roster crunch or by getting too cute with leaching "value" from trades that you might very well "win" but gain little in the long run.

[Tim Lehrbach]

Likely Cam Johnson + the 8th pick + 19th pick + 26th pick + atleast 2 of the Knicks future 1st round picks would likely be the asking price if the Spurs going move this far down in the draft order.

Basically something like this. I'm not entirely crazy about this trade but I think 5 firsts + Cam Johnson for the #2 in this draft would require some serious thought

I agree it's a meaningful offer, but you cannot do this if you think Harper is poised to be a strong partner to Wemby.

[Netaman]

I am not 100% opposed to moving off the #2 pick for the Spurs, but I'm pretty close to it.

A team in the top four (IMO) needs to be very careful trading down in this draft because the class simply isn't looking very impressive. Of course, one can apply that to Harper's Rutgers season, too, but as I have argued elsewhere, I think his talent is rare enough to accept that he's got a lot to learn. I have also made it known I do not rate his running mate, Ace Bailey, very favorably. Edgecombe and Johnson are fits for the Spurs, but I honestly think people are unreasonably clouded by the presence of Fox and Castle when they question Harper to San Antonio. If you believe Harper is going to be at or near his best case, those two are either complements to the dynamic duo of Wemby/Harper that you will boast, or they are gone for pieces that do complement. If you do not believe in Harper, sure, trade down or spend the pick on another high-upside gamble either out of the draft pool or on another roster. But do not forego the chance at a franchise-level talent using capital you rarely have in hand because of a roster crunch or by getting too cute with leaching "value" from trades that you might very well "win" but gain little in the long run.

the only way I can get to the Spurs entertaining trading the pick is for Giannis or Brown. I like Harper, I can buy Cade level, I'm pretty optimistic on him so the guy I see is brandon roy-ish, but it would be hard for me to pass up on a risk free super max level player for him knowing you also already have Wemby/Fox. I like him better than Scoot but that's the downside of overhyping. I remember plenty of "in a non-Wemby year he could be 1oa".

After 2 I think the next 10 guys or so could come off the board in a lot of different orders, not so much because of vj/ace being weak talents but because i think there are a lot of good players in that group with specific skills teams could fall for. So I would guess 3/4 don't go chalk. I see a pretty strong lotto and deep draft in general, and by virtue of so many young freshman a decent amount of upside. think I'd take the over on 2 all stars in those next 10 or so picks kind of like the 2017 class w/ fox, markannen, mitchell, bam all going 5-14. different players in this group, though i do think there's a fears/fox similarity.

[Chinook]

Likely Cam Johnson + the 8th pick + 19th pick + 26th pick + atleast 2 of the Knicks future 1st round picks would likely be the asking price if the Spurs going move this far down in the draft order.

Basically something like this. I'm not entirely crazy about this trade but I think 5 firsts + Cam Johnson for the #2 in this draft would require some serious thought

Nah, I don't think it's a serious offer. It's the result of the idea that there's such a thing as "value" that exists independently of a specific deal. IF the Spurs like someone at 8 enough to where they're okay trading down, THEN the Spurs and Nets discuss can how to bridge the gap. But there's not a meaningful offer that's going to make the Spurs go, "We like Harper, but we can't pass up that many assets."

If Brooklyn wants Harper, their only hope is that the Spurs view the board very differently than them and the NBA at large. That's why even though it's very unlikely the Spurs are willing to trade the pick at all, the higher up the targeting team is, the most likely it is that the Spurs could view their pick as a viable place to land whatever Harper alternative they're looking for.

[One_and_Done]

Jaylen and Giannis are too old to trade the #2 pick for. You need a 25 yr old Jaylen Brown to move.

[drchaos]

Likely Cam Johnson + the 8th pick + 19th pick + 26th pick + atleast 2 of the Knicks future 1st round picks would likely be the asking price if the Spurs going move this far down in the draft order.

That is a huge package to move up six spots.

Nets would be better off making a play for one of the 3-6 picks if they are unhappy drafting at # 8.

For the kind of package you are talking about the Nets would have to be getting Flagg.

[pad300]

this is the closest i've gotten to finding a way for it to make sense for Spurs.

Spurs get Jaylen Brown & Cam J for #2 and salary matching. Brown, Fox, Wemby, CamJ, plus Castle off bench all feel like players in well cast roles. Still have #14 and a bunch of future picks to keep building up.

then Nets then get #2 for #8 from Boston by eating a boatload of $. Boston gets Vassell, Keldon, Claxton plus add #8 as a second FRP this year to have a new group around White/Tatum in 2026.

nets could add more picks if need be, but i think it's reasonable for all sides if SAS can't get Giannis for whatever reason.

I'm pretty sure that SAS would not do this; I think they want no part of Jaylen Brown's contract...

[Tim Lehrbach]

Likely Cam Johnson + the 8th pick + 19th pick + 26th pick + atleast 2 of the Knicks future 1st round picks would likely be the asking price if the Spurs going move this far down in the draft order.

That is a huge package to move up six spots.

Nets would be better off making a play for one of the 3-6 picks if they are unhappy drafting at # 8.

For the kind of package you are talking about the Nets would have to be getting Flagg.

I agree that this is a huge offer. As others have said or insinuated, however, Harper just does not (or should not) go for this price, let alone Flagg. If the Spurs are unimpressed with Harper, they will pivot to another big swing because this particular pick has a potential franchise guy available and that's the mindset they need to take with the asset.

Somebody said it above, but the comp for Harper is not Scoot Henderson but another Blazer, Brandon Roy. Harper can get what he wants, where and when he wants it, and has that economy of movement that few possess -- it is as good a tell of a future star as any other, and yet we continually miss it in prospects (and I am guilty). Harper certainly does have some skill sharpening and maturing to do, so the flop potential is non-zero, but you just don't trade him for a package that is nearly guaranteed never to deliver a prospect with his upside.

The second pick moves in a trade down a spot or two so the Spurs still get their guy and basically a free asset, or in a deal for a (really) high-level starting player. If they shatter this pick into a dozen pieces or whatever, especially in a deal where the balance of the value is in a distant pick or picks, they will have managed the asset terribly.

Any notion that the quoted package merits Flagg in return is fanciful in the extreme.

[TheNetsFan]

Likely Cam Johnson + the 8th pick + 19th pick + 26th pick + atleast 2 of the Knicks future 1st round picks would likely be the asking price if the Spurs going move this far down in the draft order.

Basically something like this. I'm not entirely crazy about this trade but I think 5 firsts + Cam Johnson for the #2 in this draft would require some serious thought

That is pure lunacy. 5 1sts, which includes 2 future unprotected picks is crazy talk. That price has never been paid before & never will be paid. Historically, within the top 5, one future pick moves you up 2 spots. That was the cost with Tatum/Fultz & with Luka/Trae. To get from #8 to #2, historic norms would point to it costing CamJ, 1 premium future pick and probably one "lesser" first (e.g. one of this year's late 1sts or one of the future worst of or protected 1st).