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San Antonio has an embarrassment of riches in the backcourt and Orlando would love to add a lead guard. Curious how many firsts, if any, SA has to add to swap Fox for Franz.

Why:

San Antonio - levels out young assets across the roster. With Castle/Harper/Wagner they have 3 good shots at a long term running mate with Wemby. All are young/crafty players that would make for an exciting team. There might be a lack of 3 pt shooting but there is a lot of potential for those guys to close that gap too.

Orlando - There is some overlap with Franz and Paulo and a backcourt star would balance the roster. They get a little older but fox is still just 27. They add 1 or two first round picks (i would at least include pick 14) which enables them to add cheap talent or make additional moves to improve the roster.

Thoughts?

A lot. More than SA would be willing to add most likely.

For Orlando this looks like getting older and downgrading overall talent level without saving money in the short- or long-term.

Rather keep Franz on his contract vs Fox on his next one.

Cant see Magic making that exchange honestly, Wagner just entering his prime, Fox older and much more expensive, dont even think the fit is perfect considering the lack of consistent 3pt shooting for Fox...

I think the deal is Franz for #2, not Franz for Fox+Assets

gswhoops wrote:A lot. More than SA would be willing to add most likely.

For Orlando this looks like getting older and downgrading overall talent level without saving money in the short- or long-term.

Yeah, probably. Spurs can surely make a compelling offer if they're really motivated, but the extra cost is probably so high it defeats the purpose.

Orlando respectfully declines.

Apparently Fox wasn’t a target before he got moved, don’t think he would be now.

They certainly wouldn’t move him for the #2, let alone Fox that doesn’t really fit stylistically.

I would love for Orlando to be third team involved in any big moves for SA (Giannis/KD). They could help being a facilitator.

Magic_Johnny12 wrote:They certainly wouldn’t move him for the #2

I seriously doubt that.

wemby wrote:

Magic_Johnny12 wrote:They certainly wouldn’t move him for the #2

I seriously doubt that.

I think Orlando prefers their 6’10” playmaker w/ elite defense avg. 25/6/5/1 in just his 4th season than a hypothetical prospect that hasn’t proven anything at a high level.

But you’re entitled to your thoughts.

wemby wrote:

Magic_Johnny12 wrote:They certainly wouldn’t move him for the #2

I seriously doubt that.

I wouldn't. And I'm not even as high on Wagner as some. But If Harper has a start to his career like Wagner, that's a great result for him. Only thing is Wagner comes with none of the bust risk, has more size, and much more defense.

I think the Spurs would do that and quickly. I think the Magic would say no thanks unless they were way more convinced than I've seen any analysts be on Harper.

Harper is getting crazy overvalued on this board and its wild that Mavs fans have less expectations on returns for Flagg than some of our Spurs posters seem to have for Harper. Giannis? Yep costs us Flagg. Giannis? How dare you even ask for Harper take some picks and be happy lol.

Yeah, if they were on the same contract this might be a fixable discussion with SAS owing some value? But there should be a really big gap between these two imo.

And I think SAS should definitely offer Harper for Franz. Ideal fit with their group and locked up for 5 years.. If Harper is worth that, there should not be as big a gap between him and Flagg as people feel there is.

It's just about impossible to convince a team to trade off of a young all-star-ish level player.

Texas Chuck wrote:

wemby wrote:

Magic_Johnny12 wrote:They certainly wouldn’t move him for the #2

I seriously doubt that.

I wouldn't. And I'm not even as high on Wagner as some. But If Harper has a start to his career like Wagner, that's a great result for him. Only thing is Wagner comes with none of the bust risk, has more size, and much more defense.

I think the Spurs would do that and quickly. I think the Magic would say no thanks unless they were way more convinced than I've seen any analysts be on Harper.

Harper is getting crazy overvalued on this board and its wild that Mavs fans have less expectations on returns for Flagg than some of our Spurs posters seem to have for Harper. Giannis? Yep costs us Flagg. Giannis? How dare you even ask for Harper take some picks and be happy lol.

Really? I could have sworn you shrugged off plenty of Spurs fans offers for Flagg around Harper AND Castle AND pick/s. Not really sure then how Spurs fans can be higher on Harper than Mavs fans on Flagg.

As for this deal, I don't think it's crazy to think the Magic woulud rather keep Franz, and but I don't think it's crazy to think they'd move him either. Franz is a good bet make a couple of all star games, but I don't think he has top guy on a contender potential, and Harper might (even if not on the Spurs, because that guy is Wemby). Also there's a timeline factor here, where salaries are very, very different. It depends on how you see him long term and what's your risk aversion I guess.

wemby wrote:Really? I could have sworn you shrugged off plenty of Spurs fans offers for Flagg around Harper AND Castle AND pick/s.

I don't recall seeing offers that were that high? Not saying that there weren't any though. And yeah I'm higher on Flagg than Harper so I don't want to dilute Flagg. But I would move him for Giannis and that's without having a roster tailor made for him like the Spurs have.

But back to this, I just never believe in trading the realized player for the unrealized one unless I am convinced the unrealized one is a future can't miss stud, and I don't think that's what Harper is. But give me the opportunity to trade Harper for Franz? Yes please. Give me the chance to trade Flagg for Edwards(Dallas couldn't but it got proposed here)? Yes please.

You are like most, the lure of potential attracts you more than the proven. I'm the opposite. Give me the proven.

wemby wrote:

Texas Chuck wrote:

wemby wrote:I seriously doubt that.

I wouldn't. And I'm not even as high on Wagner as some. But If Harper has a start to his career like Wagner, that's a great result for him. Only thing is Wagner comes with none of the bust risk, has more size, and much more defense.

I think the Spurs would do that and quickly. I think the Magic would say no thanks unless they were way more convinced than I've seen any analysts be on Harper.

Harper is getting crazy overvalued on this board and its wild that Mavs fans have less expectations on returns for Flagg than some of our Spurs posters seem to have for Harper. Giannis? Yep costs us Flagg. Giannis? How dare you even ask for Harper take some picks and be happy lol.

Franz is a good bet make a couple of all star games, but I don't think he has top guy on a contender potential, and Harper might

By your logic you prefer a potential/maybe top guy on a contender than a guaranteed multiple all-star?

Interesting.

Texas Chuck wrote:You are like most, the lure of potential attracts you more than the proven. I'm the opposite. Give me the proven.

I wouldn't go that far, but it's part of the equation.
I'd take the first pick (Flagg) over Franz 100 times out of 100
I'd take Franz over the 3rd pick (Ace or whomever) 100 times out of a 100
For 2, I can see a case either way, but I think both teams consider it.

Magic_Johnny12 wrote:By your logic you prefer a potential/maybe top guy on a contender than a guaranteed multiple all-star?

Interesting.

Multiple can be 2, 3 or more. To be clear, I don't see Franz as a perennial all star, but I can see him getting there more than once, especially in the putrid East. So yes, if I think Harper has high level starter as a floor and perennial all nba as a ceiling, I think it's a discussion. If you're lower on Harper, sure, no point in entertaining this from the Magic's perspective.

wemby wrote:

Texas Chuck wrote:You are like most, the lure of potential attracts you more than the proven. I'm the opposite. Give me the proven.

I wouldn't go that far, but it's part of the equation.
I'd take the first pick (Flagg) over Franz 100 times out of 100
I'd take Franz over the 3rd pick (Ace or whomever) 100 times out of a 100
For 2, I can see a case either way, but I think both teams consider it.

Flagg is the only dude I would trade Franz for personally and Flagg could end up just being Franz statswise and that would be seen as a great pick. Flagg has infinite upside and in theory his floor is probably around Franz offensively (his defense seems rough). No one else in the draft and a floor and ceiling that high and I sincerely don't think it's close.

I don't blame you for gassing up your dude. Harper is most likely a Spur, so I totally understand. He just isn't worth Franz.

Did you just say Flagg's defense looks rough? I've not heard that. I think the Flagg concerns are that he never becomes a star on offense. I think his defense is largely seen as a given.

Texas Chuck wrote:Did you just say Flagg's defense looks rough? I've not heard that. I think the Flagg concerns are that he never becomes a star on offense. I think his defense is largely seen as a given.

He is amazing on guys his size and lower, which is great for all the switching that happens in the NBA. When he gets a guy who is a bit bigger or much bigger, he has a history of becoming somewhat of a liability. He didn't see many players like that in college, because there isn't many guys like that, but the bigger wings in the NBA will certain present him a lot of challenges.