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So the valuations might be off. I don’t think PJ is quite worth 15th as an expiring, you might think he is. I don’t think Poole is worth his contract, but know Washington fans are happy with him so trying to offer some value.


Going back to Poole..

OKC- Dieng and 15
OKC- PJ and a distant Dallas 2nd or 2 (up to you if they’re needed?)

OKC gets the ideal fitting four and depending what Chet looks like in 12 months, you keep him or IH. Or you spend like crazy for a few years due to your pick stockpile and don’t care about the penalties.

Washington - Poole and 18
Washington - Klay, Hardy, Dieng, 15

Washington trims 12~ million off 2026-2027 while moving up a few spots in the draft? Likely can trim a bit more of Klay’s money in a follow up deal and Dieng is a long shot prospect

Dallas - Klay, PJ, Hardy, 1-2 2nds if needed?
Dallas - Poole and 18

Dallas takes on some extra long term money and loses their PJ but gets a mid first and the scorer they need. At 18th there are some decent potential rotation point guards/centers that Dallas could look at depending on which way the team goes. Or they can trade 18th with salary (Gafford/Martin/Powell/etc) to try and improve the guard play further…. Ymmv still work?

Washington should kick in some value (multiple 2nds) to okc

Man, I'd love to watch the press conference where Nico Harrison declares Poole as his starting guard and being asked by MacMahon how defense wins championships and which culture Luka Doncic failed to add to the Mavs that Pools does add.
I'll bring popcorn.
Mavs should consider trading PJ only if he doesn't take a max extension offer, if he takes it, extend him, and revisit at the deadline, he should have higher value than this...
I'd much rather trade LAL 29 1st for Poole/18 than PJ Washington.

Oh Jay, you're a great poster who makes this board better, but yikes. No way should Washington get to dump Poole and move up. This is really rough for Dallas. PJ is the best player in the deal. Id rather have the logjam than Poole and a pick

Wiz say no. Poole fits perfectly as a guy who is signed for two more years and helps get to the salary floor. He also provides a scoring option while allowing the young players to ease into their roles. He’s not too good to prevent the tank, but he’s a good vet who fills a role

Makes no sense for OKC, but if they wanted PJ why wouldn't they just trade Dieng and the 15 to Dallas. I can't imagine Dallas saying no.

mhd wrote:Wiz say no. Poole fits perfectly as a guy who is signed for two more years and helps get to the salary floor. He also provides a scoring option while allowing the young players to ease into their roles. He’s not too good to prevent the tank, but he’s a good vet who fills a role

If the goal is to stay to the salary floor, you just take on another salary dump for move value after this?

The deal creates a 15 mil TPE that can be used to take on a dump or just take advantage of the new generous matching options in trades and take back more salary..

daoneandonly wrote:Oh Jay, you're a great poster who makes this board better, but yikes. No way should Washington get to dump Poole and move up. This is really rough for Dallas. PJ is the best player in the deal. Id rather have the logjam than Poole and a pick

Yeah, I don’t disagree with your valuation.

But Wiz fans have disliked the idea of just trimming down Poole’s salary. So tried to offer them some value in doing it.. To see what they say and what other non-Dallas fans say about the value.

But in my opinion (doesn’t go with the OP), Washington isn’t owed anything but doesn’t owe anything. Klay/Hardy only trim enough off Poole’s deal to make it worth doing not worth adding?

DNP-Old wrote:Makes no sense for OKC, but if they wanted PJ why wouldn't they just trade Dieng and the 15 to Dallas. I can't imagine Dallas saying no.

PJ makes no sense? That’s a bit confusing. He’s a pretty ideal third big for them and playing a lot of minutes.. then after next season they might go with keeping him over IH depending on price/fit..

They could do it straight up like that and Dallas could trade Dieng and 15 for a better guard than Poole. Definitely.

Monk. Sexton. Etc. options have been explored a lot of different ways here.

Or Dallas could keep 15th and trade Dieng+2nd(s) for a worse guard than Poole (Ayo?) but not be tied to Poole’s big contract. That’s a good route as well..

Just was trying to keep the two-time line approach going for Dallas. Poole helps keep the offense afloat, 18th hopefully becomes a rotation piece down the line. There should be some upside pieces at 18.. or go for one of the centers and free up trading Gafford..

DNP-Old wrote:Makes no sense for OKC, but if they wanted PJ why wouldn't they just trade Dieng and the 15 to Dallas. I can't imagine Dallas saying no.

We can definitely disagree on PJ's fit for OKC, but most other OKC fans have talked about him specifically a lot as a big forward who fills one of their only holes. But yeah if no interest, no interest.

Value is definitely fair for Dallas. But surely you can imagine a team that just traded Luka for AD as maybe preferring to keep a solid starter over trading him for a mid-1st right?

Now in the OP's deal he's trying to fill another win-now hole with Poole, not trade PJ for future value. Might not be the direction you would go, but I think you can imagine it no?

This kinda feels like 2 distinct deals, right?

If Washington is interested in saving some money on Poole, I don't think the 18/15 swap matters. But Dallas could add value by replacing Hardy with Powell/Prosper if need be.

The OKC deal has been talked about a lot. I think your value is right. I think there is logic in trading PJ this summer with no extension and I don't expect one. Don't want him worrying about his next contract and having resentment towards Flagg. Let me be clear I have no evidence he would be an issue, but we've seen it from other players in the past so I won't assume he's immune because he's a Mav.

Mavrelous wrote:Man, I'd love to watch the press conference where Nico Harrison declares Poole as his starting guard and being asked by MacMahon how defense wins championships and which culture Luka Doncic failed to add to the Mavs that Pools does add.
I'll bring popcorn.

This is one of the best things I've read on this board in a while.

Yeah, if PJ agrees to the below market extension he’s eligible for.. Dallas should keep him and figure guard situation out other ways. Whether that’s trading AD and leaning into a rebuild or trading Gafford and Martin and AD playing more center minutes, etc..

I just don’t think that he would agree to what Dallas can offer and I don’t know if it’s a good idea to let him hit free agency next offseason when someone should be offering clear starter money/role.

Doesn’t mean Poole is the answer at all.

Mavrelous wrote:Man, I'd love to watch the press conference where Nico Harrison declares Poole as his starting guard and being asked by MacMahon how defense wins championships and which culture Luka Doncic failed to add to the Mavs that Pools does add.
I'll bring popcorn.
Mavs should consider trading PJ only if he doesn't take a max extension offer, if he takes it, extend him, and revisit at the deadline, he should have higher value than this...
I'd much rather trade LAL 29 1st for Poole/18 than PJ Washington.

I don’t think PJ should be valued over the LAL first, unless he signs an extension.. Dallas didn’t have to give up a fully unprotected first for PJ with 2.5 cheap years left and they got to dump Grant Williams, and they got a couple meh 2nds back..

I just don’t see him signing that extension. Would love it for Dallas if he did though. I wouldn’t trade an extended PJ for 15th.

For the OP, I think of it more as Klay/Hardy for Poole and PJ for 18. And I don’t love those values for Dallas, but thought I might just be overrating Dallas pieces.

As for the Poole defense issue.. I think there’s a big difference between accepting an overpaid 6th man (ideally) that isn’t a good defender versus giving Luka a supermax.

Though again, I really hate sounding like I’m defending Nico. The Luka trade can’t be defended. Just for team building, a 2 year guy that will transition to 6th man once Kai (who isn’t a good defender and was not traded) is healthy versus a 35% max to Luka. Theres a big difference that I think people will see..

jayjaysee wrote:Yeah, if PJ agrees to the below market extension he’s eligible for.. Dallas should keep him and figure guard situation out other ways. Whether that’s trading AD and leaning into a rebuild or trading Gafford and Martin and AD playing more center minutes, etc..

I just don’t think that he would agree to what Dallas can offer and I don’t know if it’s a good idea to let him hit free agency next offseason when someone should be offering clear starter money/role.

I'm afraid Niko is just going to worry about this year and I'm actually pretty afraid the plan is to keep him and lose him in free agency in a year. With them telling us Cooper made him expendable and we really believe in whichever of Marshall/Martin is still around.

And if Kyrie was healthy I think I'd be okay with just keeping him and letting it play out. Dallas could be a pretty good team with Kyrie all year. Without that I don't think everything can just be about this year.

jayjaysee wrote:

Mavrelous wrote:Man, I'd love to watch the press conference where Nico Harrison declares Poole as his starting guard and being asked by MacMahon how defense wins championships and which culture Luka Doncic failed to add to the Mavs that Pools does add.
I'll bring popcorn.
Mavs should consider trading PJ only if he doesn't take a max extension offer, if he takes it, extend him, and revisit at the deadline, he should have higher value than this...
I'd much rather trade LAL 29 1st for Poole/18 than PJ Washington.

I don’t think PJ should be valued over the LAL first, unless he signs an extension. And I just don’t see him signing that extension. Would love it for Dallas if he did though. I wouldn’t trade an extended PJ for 15th.

For the OP, I think of it more as Klay/Hardy for Poole and PJ for 18. And I don’t love those values for Dallas, but thought I might just be overrating Dallas pieces.

As for the Poole defense issue.. I think there’s a big difference between accepting an overpaid 6th man (ideally) that isn’t a good defender versus giving Luka a supermax.

Though again, I really hate sounding like I’m defending Nico. The Luka trade can’t be defended. Just for team building, a 2 year guy that will transition to 6th man once Kai (who isn’t a good defender and was not traded) is healthy versus a 35% max to Luka. Theres a big difference that I think people will see..

Once you have your franchise player, the hardest position to fill in the NBA is the versatile PF who can defend, rebound, and score when the spotlight is on the star, Mavs struggled a lot to find one, and it makes me appreciate his value, I don't think you'd find that in mid 1st, they tried to do it on Prosper, it backfired badly, Mavs would've been much better off w/o that trade, but I also understand why teams wouldn't pay more for expiring player.

It's been claimed that I overvalue Reaves and ignore his contract situation, trade PJ for Reaves, maybe Mavs add some small value, both are expiring, both will need a new contract, both fit contending teams more than rebuilding teams so both bird rights will likely give huge advantage to the team having them.
That's just better value than Poole or late 1st, IMO at least, I may be wrong.

Texas Chuck wrote:

jayjaysee wrote:Yeah, if PJ agrees to the below market extension he’s eligible for.. Dallas should keep him and figure guard situation out other ways. Whether that’s trading AD and leaning into a rebuild or trading Gafford and Martin and AD playing more center minutes, etc..

I just don’t think that he would agree to what Dallas can offer and I don’t know if it’s a good idea to let him hit free agency next offseason when someone should be offering clear starter money/role.

I'm afraid Niko is just going to worry about this year and I'm actually pretty afraid the plan is to keep him and lose him in free agency in a year. With them telling us Cooper made him expendable and we really believe in whichever of Marshall/Martin is still around.

And if Kyrie was healthy I think I'd be okay with just keeping him and letting it play out. Dallas could be a pretty good team with Kyrie all year. Without that I don't think everything can just be about this year.

All of those matches my thoughts and is why I think he should be traded unless he extends.

Not that I want to trade him. Think I would want to keep him over everyone but Flagg, Lively, and Kyrie?

And Kyrie only because he’s injured probably.. If he were healthy, I’d be flooding Kyrie to Orlando, Houston, Milwaukee ideas..

Mavrelous wrote:

jayjaysee wrote:
I don’t think PJ should be valued over the LAL first, unless he signs an extension. And I just don’t see him signing that extension. Would love it for Dallas if he did though. I wouldn’t trade an extended PJ for 15th.

For the OP, I think of it more as Klay/Hardy for Poole and PJ for 18. And I don’t love those values for Dallas, but thought I might just be overrating Dallas pieces.

As for the Poole defense issue.. I think there’s a big difference between accepting an overpaid 6th man (ideally) that isn’t a good defender versus giving Luka a supermax.

Though again, I really hate sounding like I’m defending Nico. The Luka trade can’t be defended. Just for team building, a 2 year guy that will transition to 6th man once Kai (who isn’t a good defender and was not traded) is healthy versus a 35% max to Luka. Theres a big difference that I think people will see..

Once you have your franchise player, the hardest position to fill in the NBA is the versatile PF who can defend, rebound, and score when the spotlight is on the star, Mavs struggled a lot to find one, and it makes me appreciate his value, I don't think you'd find that in mid 1st, they tried to do it on Prosper, it backfired badly, Mavs would've been much better off w/o that trade, but I also understand why teams wouldn't pay more for expiring player.

It's been claimed that I overvalue Reaves and ignore his contract situation, trade PJ for Reaves, maybe Mavs add some small value, both are expiring, both will need a new contract, both fit contending teams more than rebuilding teams so both bird rights will likely give huge advantage to the team having them.
That's just better value than Poole or late 1st, IMO at least, I may be wrong.

A defensive anchor who can stay on the floor to close games or a clutch 2nd option is harder to fill. kyrie and lively were more important to the mavs than PJ was. PJ was acquired for grant williams and a future 1st. Dont understand how he suddenly got so valuable when his game didnt really change from hornets to mavericks AND he lost 2 years of cost control. Makes no sense to me. Just because he's better than the prior crappy options the mavs had doesn't make him worth a lotto pick.

-0.2 EPM
-0.9 BPM
55.6% TS

That doesn't scream lotto value to me

I don't think it matters or is even that clear which specific position is most important around your star. Now PJ Washington showed he could be a 4th starter on a Finals team. So he's a pretty good bet as a key rotation player on a contender. The issue is Dallas isn't one, or close to one. And he's a pending free agent unlikely to extend off his current number.

So Dallas has to decide how to manage that. I agree with jay that realizing his value in trade is probably the smart play. Much like I think Portland should trade Deni, Brooklyn should have traded their forwards sooner, etc....

And I just think we have to ignore Reaves as an option. Niko will not go back to LA because Tim will ask why didn't you get Reaves in the Luka trade and he will run and hide again.

Mavrelous wrote:

jayjaysee wrote:

Mavrelous wrote:Man, I'd love to watch the press conference where Nico Harrison declares Poole as his starting guard and being asked by MacMahon how defense wins championships and which culture Luka Doncic failed to add to the Mavs that Pools does add.
I'll bring popcorn.
Mavs should consider trading PJ only if he doesn't take a max extension offer, if he takes it, extend him, and revisit at the deadline, he should have higher value than this...
I'd much rather trade LAL 29 1st for Poole/18 than PJ Washington.

I don’t think PJ should be valued over the LAL first, unless he signs an extension. And I just don’t see him signing that extension. Would love it for Dallas if he did though. I wouldn’t trade an extended PJ for 15th.

For the OP, I think of it more as Klay/Hardy for Poole and PJ for 18. And I don’t love those values for Dallas, but thought I might just be overrating Dallas pieces.

As for the Poole defense issue.. I think there’s a big difference between accepting an overpaid 6th man (ideally) that isn’t a good defender versus giving Luka a supermax.

Though again, I really hate sounding like I’m defending Nico. The Luka trade can’t be defended. Just for team building, a 2 year guy that will transition to 6th man once Kai (who isn’t a good defender and was not traded) is healthy versus a 35% max to Luka. Theres a big difference that I think people will see..

Once you have your franchise player, the hardest position to fill in the NBA is the versatile PF who can defend, rebound, and score when the spotlight is on the star, Mavs struggled a lot to find one, and it makes me appreciate his value, I don't think you'd find that in mid 1st, they tried to do it on Prosper, it backfired badly, Mavs would've been much better off w/o that trade, but I also understand why teams wouldn't pay more for expiring player.

It's been claimed that I overvalue Reaves and ignore his contract situation, trade PJ for Reaves, maybe Mavs add some small value, both are expiring, both will need a new contract, both fit contending teams more than rebuilding teams so both bird rights will likely give huge advantage to the team having them.
That's just better value than Poole or late 1st, IMO at least, I may be wrong.

I just think with AD/Flagg (and lesser Martin/Naji) Dallas won’t be paying PJ long term and they should cash out now.

If you can get a better guard for PJ, sure always aim higher. But I think I take Poole+18 over Monk or Sexton?

And that was kind of the idea of the post. Get the future value, while still filling the guard need.