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DAL/TOR/LAL/SAC
Posted: Sat Jun 7, 2025 12:41 am
by dcstanley
DAL in: Malik Monk
DAL out: PJ Washington and Jaden Hardy
TOR in: Jaden Hardy, 2025 LAL SRP, 2025 SAC SRP
TOR out: Ochai Agbaji
LAL in: PJ Washington and Ochai Agbaji
LAL out: Dalton Knecht, Rui Hachimura, and 2025 SRP
SAC in: Dalton Knecht and Rui Hachimura
SAC out: Malik Monk and 2025 SRP
DAL upgrades their guard depth and clears some of the glut at forward.
TOR takes a flier on a young guard and receives two second round picks for their trouble.
LAL upgrades at the 4 and adds a perimeter defender to their rotation.
SAC receives a promising young shooting guard and an expiring rotation (borderline starting level) PF.
Re: DAL/TOR/LAL/SAC
Posted: Sat Jun 7, 2025 12:45 am
by Godaddycurse
Toronto values agbaji more than that. That package isnt even positive
Re: DAL/TOR/LAL/SAC
Posted: Sat Jun 7, 2025 12:51 am
by Texas Chuck
Godaddycurse wrote:Toronto values agbaji more than that. That package isnt even positive
Yeah this is really bad for the Raptors.
I don't think Dallas deserves to dump Hardy, but I know Monk v PJ values certainly fluctuate.
Kings would cut Lakers out I think. They don't need two more offensive forwards
Lakers appear to be getting a sweet deal, so I'm guessing this deal started with them and built out. They get what they need at the expense of Toronto and Sacramento.
Re: DAL/TOR/LAL/SAC
Posted: Sat Jun 7, 2025 1:05 am
by Mr Swagtastic
I was super high on Hardy predraft not so much now. I think Walter probably has the higher upside and Toronto values Ochai more than a depth piece and seconds
Re: DAL/TOR/LAL/SAC
Posted: Sat Jun 7, 2025 1:13 am
by brackdan70
I don’t watch a bunch of Raptors, can someone enlighten me as to what is so special about Ochai? The numbers don’t really reflect that he is much more valuable than Hardy and seconds to me?
Re: DAL/TOR/LAL/SAC
Posted: Sat Jun 7, 2025 1:17 am
by Texas Chuck
brackdan70 wrote:I don’t watch a bunch of Raptors, can someone enlighten me as to what is so special about Ochai? The numbers don’t really reflect that he is much more valuable than Hardy and seconds to me?
Hardy is terrible. So start there.
Agbaji makes 3's and defends passably. And the Raps want to win. He can help. Hardy cannot help.
Re: DAL/TOR/LAL/SAC
Posted: Sat Jun 7, 2025 1:26 am
by brackdan70
Texas Chuck wrote:brackdan70 wrote:I don’t watch a bunch of Raptors, can someone enlighten me as to what is so special about Ochai? The numbers don’t really reflect that he is much more valuable than Hardy and seconds to me?
Hardy is terrible. So start there.
Agbaji makes 3's and defends passably. And the Raps want to win. He can help. Hardy cannot help.
You know more about Hardy than me, but I have seen some flashes. And he is only 22. Is he really that bad. He and Ochai are in the same level in impact stats. Ochai 3 years older as well. Idk it seemed a couple seconds made up any value difference to me. If Toronto is high on him then I get it
Re: DAL/TOR/LAL/SAC
Posted: Sat Jun 7, 2025 1:37 am
by daoneandonly
For the Lakers by the Lakers
Re: DAL/TOR/LAL/SAC
Posted: Sat Jun 7, 2025 1:41 am
by Godaddycurse
brackdan70 wrote:Texas Chuck wrote:brackdan70 wrote:I don’t watch a bunch of Raptors, can someone enlighten me as to what is so special about Ochai? The numbers don’t really reflect that he is much more valuable than Hardy and seconds to me?
Hardy is terrible. So start there.
Agbaji makes 3's and defends passably. And the Raps want to win. He can help. Hardy cannot help.
You know more about Hardy than me, but I have seen some flashes. And he is only 22. Is he really that bad. He and Ochai are in the same level in impact stats. Ochai 3 years older as well. Idk it seemed a couple seconds made up any value difference to me. If Toronto is high on him then I get it
same level in impact stats?
Hardy
BPM -4.7
EPM -3
TS 54.9
on-off -3.7
Agbaji
BPM -0.7
EPM -0.8
TS 60.2
on-off -2.4
Re: DAL/TOR/LAL/SAC
Posted: Sat Jun 7, 2025 2:10 am
by brackdan70
Godaddycurse wrote:brackdan70 wrote:Texas Chuck wrote:Hardy is terrible. So start there.
Agbaji makes 3's and defends passably. And the Raps want to win. He can help. Hardy cannot help.
You know more about Hardy than me, but I have seen some flashes. And he is only 22. Is he really that bad. He and Ochai are in the same level in impact stats. Ochai 3 years older as well. Idk it seemed a couple seconds made up any value difference to me. If Toronto is high on him then I get it
same level in impact stats?
Hardy
BPM -4.7
EPM -3
TS 54.9
on-off -3.7
Agbaji
BPM -0.7
EPM -0.8
TS 60.2
on-off -2.4
EPM is the only impact stat there. Shani had a breakout year last year. Years prior he wasn’t quite that “good”
VPM Hardy -3.3 Agbaji -1.2
LEBRON -2.4 vs -2.2
Darko -1.9 vs -1.2
Agbaji is better yes, but not by a lot and both are pretty negative. Agbaji is significantly older as well and sucked ass until this last year. The value difference doesn’t look like more than a couple seconds to me. Seems like the OP was pretty much on. Both are paid about the same with Hardy having an extra year under contract.
Idk, like I said I haven’t watched him so maybe I am missing something.
Re: DAL/TOR/LAL/SAC
Posted: Sat Jun 7, 2025 2:12 am
by Godaddycurse
brackdan70 wrote:Godaddycurse wrote:brackdan70 wrote:You know more about Hardy than me, but I have seen some flashes. And he is only 22. Is he really that bad. He and Ochai are in the same level in impact stats. Ochai 3 years older as well. Idk it seemed a couple seconds made up any value difference to me. If Toronto is high on him then I get it
same level in impact stats?
Hardy
BPM -4.7
EPM -3
TS 54.9
on-off -3.7
Agbaji
BPM -0.7
EPM -0.8
TS 60.2
on-off -2.4
EPM is the only impact stat there. Shani had a breakout year last year. Years prior he wasn’t quite that “good”
VPM Hardy -3.3 Agbaji -1.2
LEBRON -2.4 vs -2.2
Darko -1.9 vs -1.2
Agbaji is better yes, but not by a lot and both are pretty negative. Agbaji is significantly older as well and sucked ass until this last year. The value difference doesn’t look like more than a couple seconds to me. Seems like the OP was pretty much on. Both are paid about the same with Hardy having an extra year under contract.
Idk, like I said I haven’t watched him so maybe I am missing something.
We are going to value agbaji at this past year's level of play than prior years before he was on our team/system. if thats agbaji's value on the market then we will just hold on to him. no reason to downgrade him to hardy for few late 2nds
Re: DAL/TOR/LAL/SAC
Posted: Sat Jun 7, 2025 2:27 am
by brackdan70
Godaddycurse wrote:brackdan70 wrote:Godaddycurse wrote:
same level in impact stats?
Hardy
BPM -4.7
EPM -3
TS 54.9
on-off -3.7
Agbaji
BPM -0.7
EPM -0.8
TS 60.2
on-off -2.4
EPM is the only impact stat there. Shani had a breakout year last year. Years prior he wasn’t quite that “good”
VPM Hardy -3.3 Agbaji -1.2
LEBRON -2.4 vs -2.2
Darko -1.9 vs -1.2
Agbaji is better yes, but not by a lot and both are pretty negative. Agbaji is significantly older as well and sucked ass until this last year. The value difference doesn’t look like more than a couple seconds to me. Seems like the OP was pretty much on. Both are paid about the same with Hardy having an extra year under contract.
Idk, like I said I haven’t watched him so maybe I am missing something.
We are going to value agbaji at this past year's level of play than prior years before he was on our team/system. if thats agbaji's value on the market then we will just hold on to him. no reason to downgrade him to hardy for few late 2nds
Fair enough.
Re: DAL/TOR/LAL/SAC
Posted: Sat Jun 7, 2025 2:28 am
by brackdan70
brackdan70 wrote:Godaddycurse wrote:brackdan70 wrote:You know more about Hardy than me, but I have seen some flashes. And he is only 22. Is he really that bad. He and Ochai are in the same level in impact stats. Ochai 3 years older as well. Idk it seemed a couple seconds made up any value difference to me. If Toronto is high on him then I get it
same level in impact stats?
Hardy
BPM -4.7
EPM -3
TS 54.9
on-off -3.7
Agbaji
BPM -0.7
EPM -0.8
TS 60.2
on-off -2.4
EPM is the only impact stat there. Agbaji had a breakout year last year. Years prior he wasn’t quite that “good”
VPM Hardy -3.3 Agbaji -1.2
LEBRON -2.4 vs -2.2
Darko -1.9 vs -1.2
Agbaji is better yes, but not by a lot and both are pretty negative. Agbaji is significantly older as well and sucked ass until this last year. The value difference doesn’t look like more than a couple seconds to me. Seems like the OP was pretty much on. Both are paid about the same with Hardy having an extra year under contract.
Idk, like I said I haven’t watched him so maybe I am missing something.
Re: DAL/TOR/LAL/SAC
Posted: Sat Jun 7, 2025 2:16 pm
by Johnston
brackdan70 wrote:I don’t watch a bunch of Raptors, can someone enlighten me as to what is so special about Ochai? The numbers don’t really reflect that he is much more valuable than Hardy and seconds to me?
10/4/3 in 27 mins per game. 40% from 3. Great defender. Still fairly young. Raptors have been high on him since pre draft workouts years ago and traded a late first to get him and Kelly O. One of those glue guys players every team wants/needs.
Re: DAL/TOR/LAL/SAC
Posted: Sat Jun 7, 2025 2:54 pm
by Darren
Godaddycurse wrote:brackdan70 wrote:Texas Chuck wrote:Hardy is terrible. So start there.
Agbaji makes 3's and defends passably. And the Raps want to win. He can help. Hardy cannot help.
You know more about Hardy than me, but I have seen some flashes. And he is only 22. Is he really that bad. He and Ochai are in the same level in impact stats. Ochai 3 years older as well. Idk it seemed a couple seconds made up any value difference to me. If Toronto is high on him then I get it
same level in impact stats?
Hardy
BPM -4.7
EPM -3
TS 54.9
on-off -3.7
Agbaji
BPM -0.7
EPM -0.8
TS 60.2
on-off -2.4
Hardy is one of the best shooters on Mavs roster. The problem is the size and position played. Hardy's 6-3 without very long arm. This makes it easier for players to shoot right in front of him. With a lack of playmaking skills, I may take some time to bring along Hardy at 1. Defensively, Hardy actually tried in terms of stopping penetration. But when opponents shoot right in front of him, he can't do anything, especially on the playoff floor.
I have no idea how well Agbaji will perform on the playoff floor. I suspect the defense could be quite similar if Agbaji plays against playoff foes. Anyway, Hardy's not being paid to a big amount but Agbaji will take way more to retain after the rookie deal.