Mark Williams Trade Value

[JMAC3]

Obviously, the failed trade last year probably brings his value down some so I am sure there will be some people who just jump to the conclusion that he is worthless. However, just because Lakers didn't want to give up last of their assets for him doesn't mean he isn't a valuable piece.

He is still a 23 year old center who averaged 15/10 in under 27 mpg.
One of the better interior finishers in the league, above the rim finisher (nearly 3 dunks per game), really good free throw shooter for a big man (80%).
Under contract this year at 6.2 million and then will hit RFA.
After missing first 20 games this year, he played in 44 of the next 62 which was mainly because of Hornets being out of contention and resting him on B2B. He never missed more than 2 games back to back after coming back from injury outside of the 4 games where he was traded and was in limbo while that was straightened out.

Defense he graded out poorly, which was a mix of missing an entire year from injury and being out of rhythm. Along with being surrounded by poor defenders, Brandon Miller missed most of the year which means Mark spent a lot of time on the floor with Melo, Nick Smith Jr, Salaun, Miles Bridges and Seth Curry. None of those guys are known as being good team defenders. He still has a 9-6 standing reach and had a 4% block rate this year so all the tools to be a good rim protector exist, ideally a better fit for drop coverage but Hornets lacked poa defenders to run an effective drop coverage.

Personally, I would like to keep him but with the relationship damaged and some connections of Charlotte at least entertaining drafting Maluach it seems worth my time to do the due diligence and see what offers exist.

[JMAC3]

Shorter Answer if you want to skip the more detailed version.
Young, Productive, Cheap contract who is showing signs of getting healthier.

Offer is probably less than Knecht, unprotected first and future swap after damaged relationship and negative publicity of failed physical.

[babyjax13]

I like Chicago as a destination. Something like 2026 POR 1st (1-14 protected thru 2028, otherwise 2028 2nd) + Dosunmu for Williams. Chicago is desperate for rebounding and Williams could be a long-term solution at center. The cost of entry is low enough given his health. Charlotte gets a nice 2-way guard plus a shot at a mid/late firsts if Portland suddenly improves (otherwise it would be a good second). Certainly not a home run, but maybe workable?

[Texas Chuck]

I think any trade offers will be low, low to a point where the OP probably finds them insulting, but traditionally pending RFA's that teams don't want to re-sign don't return much value. And before you tell me but we want to re-sign him, no you don;t. Once you start shopping him, its because you don't want to pay him.

Might could get a late 1st in this draft? I'd have that as the top of his range.

[Godaddycurse]

Would offer dick for him

[Nyce_1]

Would offer dick for him

Lol

[MasterIchiro]

Charlotte has been framed as trying to sell damaged goods.

They took advantage of a desperate front office in the wake of the Luka trade where the GM surveyed the market for centers in a mad scramble and couldn't find a fair deal.

Lakers backed out because they overpaid, sobered up, and reclaimed assets. Gobert physically abused them in the clincher.

Jaxson Hayes? Lol!

Mark finished the season healthy and strong.

There's no discount on him.

He's only damaged goods if you believe the LA Lakers brokered the deal and rescind in good faith.

I do not believe that for a second.

[VaDe255]

Anderson is an expiring, because his money is not guaranteed after this year.
I'd throw in Jaquez as well, but it would make things complicated, because I'm not sure how to make the trade work.

Hornets get a late pick in this draft + Jaquez (if there is a good way to make it work) and the Heat get a good backup center or starter, would be a healthy competition between Mark/Ware and Heat avoid draft gamble and get a guy who can immedietly contribute, decide next year to pay him or not.

[Scoot McGroot]

Charlotte has been framed as trying to sell damaged goods.

They took advantage of a desperate front office in the wake of the Luka trade where the GM surveyed the market for centers in a mad scramble and couldn't find a fair deal.

Absolutely no issue with Charlotte trading Mark for the best deal they could find. This is just how the NBA works. Some teams do more thorough physicals than others. And MOST teams do the MOST THOROUGH physicals when acquiring a new player rather than the yearly training camp physicals (which are more like checkups). It would absolutely make sense why LA found something they might be uncomfortable with committing a large payment to acquire a player rather than Charlotte having found something in a player they already employed. For example, Indiana found Caris Levert's slow growing cancer. This wasn't a knock on Brooklyn, as much as "new team wants super thorough examination before committing to paying for a new player".

Lakers backed out because they overpaid, sobered up, and reclaimed assets.

Absolutely no issue with a team working a thorough physical and deciding that the premium price they paid to acquire a solid, but not great, player is too much if they also have to deal with an injury or condition that they found that they are uncomfortable with. And, again, no knock on Charlotte for "not disclosing" said issue, as it's very likely, and very understandable, that they may not have known. Or, even if they knew, their doctors just may not have cared. Different teams have different things that they are not ok with working with. And that's ok.

Mark finished the season healthy and strong.

He couldn't play B2B. He missed 18 of 62 games the rest of the way. It's not great. And for a guy who has only played in 106 of 246 possible games played in his career so far, or 43% of his possible games, there's not exactly a clear confidence in him. Most teams would call that still one of their most questionable players in terms of consistency/health.

There's no discount on him.

He's only damaged goods if you believe the LA Lakers brokered the deal and rescind in good faith.

I do not believe that for a second.

Ignore the Lakers part. There's absolutely a discount on him. He's now entering the last season of his rookie deal. You have just one guaranteed playoff run with him (if you're goals are the playoffs). You won't have had him in your locker room for a 30 game run going into this offseason, so you have no idea if you should even negotiate a rookie contract extension with him before the deadline around Halloween. Guys in the last year of their deals just hold less value than they do if they're traded for their on court value, rather than their expiring contract. And, again, he has a MAJOR health question in his career, even before he got failed in a trade physical by a team that desperately needed a playable center, and especially a young one that can play above the rim and in pick and rolls for lobs from Luka.

But even if you disregard everything about the Lakers trade, he's still got major health questions, and he's entering the last year of his contract. Both are things that generally discount players trade values in the real world. Realistically, if Charlotte wants him to have major trade value, they probably need to extend him this summer, and play him for a year or two and he needs to play a solid 70+ games for a year or two? Otherwise, it's likely that an acquiring team would want a discount on him. Much like they would want a discount on RW3, a player that has proven much more in the NBA in terms of impact than Mark Williams has thus far.

[GoBobs]

I could go either way on Mark. I would trade him if the return is right, keep him if it isn't. I would resign him if the price is right.

For me the right price is a pick I can use to select Sorber.

Mark's problem last year was he wasn't physical and he wasn't mobile either. He was hunted defensively in every senerio. Average centers like J. Valanciunas and Daniel Gafford went ham on him in the paint. We were hiding him on Ja Morant at the end of the season.

The good though is he is still really tall. His stats are really, really good. Find me another player you can trade for with a 24 per, 65% true shooting percentage, that is giving 15/10/1 in 27 minutes.

So even with all the problems he really does some things well for a 23 year old guy. I am sure there are some coaches out there who could figure out how to use him. If his defense improves a little bit or he starts playing more physical then he becomes a star.

[MasterIchiro]

Charlotte has been framed as trying to sell damaged goods.

They took advantage of a desperate front office in the wake of the Luka trade where the GM surveyed the market for centers in a mad scramble and couldn't find a fair deal.

Absolutely no issue with Charlotte trading Mark for the best deal they could find. This is just how the NBA works. Some teams do more thorough physicals than others. And MOST teams do the MOST THOROUGH physicals when acquiring a new player rather than the yearly training camp physicals (which are more like checkups). It would absolutely make sense why LA found something they might be uncomfortable with committing a large payment to acquire a player rather than Charlotte having found something in a player they already employed. For example, Indiana found Caris Levert's slow growing cancer. This wasn't a knock on Brooklyn, as much as "new team wants super thorough examination before committing to paying for a new player".

Lakers backed out because they overpaid, sobered up, and reclaimed assets.

Absolutely no issue with a team working a thorough physical and deciding that the premium price they paid to acquire a solid, but not great, player is too much if they also have to deal with an injury or condition that they found that they are uncomfortable with. And, again, no knock on Charlotte for "not disclosing" said issue, as it's very likely, and very understandable, that they may not have known. Or, even if they knew, their doctors just may not have cared. Different teams have different things that they are not ok with working with. And that's ok.

Mark finished the season healthy and strong.

He couldn't play B2B. He missed 18 of 62 games the rest of the way. It's not great. And for a guy who has only played in 106 of 246 possible games played in his career so far, or 43% of his possible games, there's not exactly a clear confidence in him. Most teams would call that still one of their most questionable players in terms of consistency/health.

There's no discount on him.

He's only damaged goods if you believe the LA Lakers brokered the deal and rescind in good faith.

I do not believe that for a second.

Ignore the Lakers part. There's absolutely a discount on him. He's now entering the last season of his rookie deal. You have just one guaranteed playoff run with him (if you're goals are the playoffs). You won't have had him in your locker room for a 30 game run going into this offseason, so you have no idea if you should even negotiate a rookie contract extension with him before the deadline around Halloween. Guys in the last year of their deals just hold less value than they do if they're traded for their on court value, rather than their expiring contract. And, again, he has a MAJOR health question in his career, even before he got failed in a trade physical by a team that desperately needed a playable center, and especially a young one that can play above the rim and in pick and rolls for lobs from Luka.

But even if you disregard everything about the Lakers trade, he's still got major health questions, and he's entering the last year of his contract. Both are things that generally discount players trade values in the real world. Realistically, if Charlotte wants him to have major trade value, they probably need to extend him this summer, and play him for a year or two and he needs to play a solid 70+ games for a year or two? Otherwise, it's likely that an acquiring team would want a discount on him. Much like they would want a discount on RW3, a player that has proven much more in the NBA in terms of impact than Mark Williams has thus far.

I will never ever believe the Lakers acted in good faith nor that their physical is this unique process for their organization above others.

And I don't believe the league buys that they acted in good faith. Every game called after he returned was surreal. The announcers of other teams watched him play and felt baffled he failed a physical. So did Mark Williams himself.

I get that the Lakers narrative is the one adopted by the mainstream, but their desperation was real and manifest in that final game where Gobert drove the nail in the coffin.

They did not want to go into the playoffs empty handed so they overpaid. Hornets have no urgency nor tax issues. We were not shopping him. Our GM stated it was the Lakers who pursued him aggressively (in their obvious desperation).

[wegotthabeet]

He’s probably worth a pick in the 15-20 range. Don’t think a future unprotected pick is going to be offered again.

[wemby]

I mostly agree with Scoot McGroot's post above, if you take a look at his availability over his career, numbers paint a worrying picture and, while better, recent times still convey a sense of concern. I do think the overpay played a big part in the Lakers walking back their offer, but there are definitely real underlying issues we don't truly know of, and this will play a part in Mark Williams' valuation, as will him reaching the final year of his rookie scale deal. This feels like a pick in the late teens for the right team.

[wemby]

He's only damaged goods if you believe the LA Lakers brokered the deal and rescind in good faith.

I do not believe that for a second.

Both things can be true though, maybe the Lakers were willing to pay a king's ransom to fit an urgent need if they had no other concerns, but when they did they felt the extra risk didn't warrant the overpay and walked it back. I think it's a combination of both here.

[HornetJail]

my immediate response is "nowhere near enough to make Charlotte parting with him a good thing" and the 14 comments in here are proving my point.

[MasterIchiro]

He's only damaged goods if you believe the LA Lakers brokered the deal and rescind in good faith.

I do not believe that for a second.

Both things can be true though, maybe the Lakers were willing to pay a king's ransom to fit an urgent need if they had no other concerns, but when they did they felt the extra risk didn't warrant the overpay and walked it back. I think it's a combination of both here.

If you look at the return for Mark in retrospect, it's kind of obvious the Lakers had to motivate the Hornets to move him. Hornets were not motivated to move him, and Charlotte had a most thorough vantage point on his medicals. We would see what the Lakers saw before the Lakers saw it, and bend on price accordingly. We did not.

[MasterIchiro]

my immediate response is "nowhere near enough to make Charlotte parting with him a good thing" and the 14 comments in here are proving my point.

It's not even worth discussing anymore.

The return was awesome, but I'm still glad we kept him because he finished the year strong and showed the game started to slow down for him again on both ends, after a layoff testing 1.5 years of careful rehab.

He will be good to go! I certainly don't envy the Lakers position (Jaxson Hayes, clobbered by Gobert, hard ceiling in the playoffs). I wouldn't want to be thrust into the market for centers where my only option is an overpay like the one extracted for Mark.

[HornetJail]

my immediate response is "nowhere near enough to make Charlotte parting with him a good thing" and the 14 comments in here are proving my point.

It's not even worth discussing anymore.

The return was awesome, but I'm still glad we kept him because he finished the year strong and showed the game started to slow down for him again on both ends, after a layoff testing 1.5 years of careful rehab.

He will be good to go! I certainly don't envy the Lakers position (Jaxson Hayes, clobbered by Gobert, hard ceiling in the playoffs). I wouldn't want to be thrust into the market for centers where my only option is an overpay like the one extracted for Mark.

i think the Lakers package is being highly overrated. I wouldn't take that package if it was offered again this summer. We'll spend the rest of this decade trying and failing to find a C half as good as Mark.

[wemby]

He's only damaged goods if you believe the LA Lakers brokered the deal and rescind in good faith.

I do not believe that for a second.

Both things can be true though, maybe the Lakers were willing to pay a king's ransom to fit an urgent need if they had no other concerns, but when they did they felt the extra risk didn't warrant the overpay and walked it back. I think it's a combination of both here.

If you look at the return for Mark in retrospect, it's kind of obvious the Lakers had to motivate the Hornets to move him. Hornets were not motivated to move him, and Charlotte had a most thorough vantage point on his medicals. We would see what the Lakers saw before the Lakers saw it, and bend on price accordingly. We did not.

I don't think that's obvious at all, the Hornets saw a team desperately looking for a solution at center with not many alternatives in the market, and used that to their advantage, only to backfire in the end. Maybe if the deal was more modest Lakers could stomach the price, but it wasn't so anything other that squeaky clean physicals wouldn't do. For the record, I think we'll have our answer shortly, if the Hornets are right in their evaluation of Mark Williams and they truly want to keep him, they'll offer him a juicy extension which would placate Williams and keep him with the team long term. But if they move him for a price well below that which they agreed in principle with the Lakers, that would strongly suggest there's truth to the Lakers' arguments.

[Texas Chuck]

For the record, I think we'll have our answer shortly, if the Hornets are right in his evaluation of Mark Williams and they truly wanted to keep him, they'll offer him a juicy extension which would placate Williams and keep him with the team long term. But if they move him for a price well below that which they agreed in principle with the Lakers, that would strongly suggest there's true to the Lakers' arguments.

Yep we are all going to get our answers soon. If he doesn't get a big extension offer, then we know what other posters are telling Ichiro is true--the team themselves have real doubts. If he gets it, cool they value him a lot and we can all move on.

Then if he doesn't get extended, we should expect them to see what he can get on the trade market. And if he gets dealt one side here will pound their chest and the other side (hopefully) will eat their crow.

Or if they don't extend or trade him, we will all use that information to create a narrative saying we were right all along.