RealGM

With the closeness of the two front offices, the apparent need for the new Celtics VC ownership to shed salary, and the expectation that with the Tatum injury they take a gap year, here's an unlikely off the wall idea:

BOS trades (as three separate trades w/o aggregation):
—Jaylen Brown, $53.1MM (+ 3 yr, $183.0MM)
—Derrick White, $28.1MM (+ 3 yr, $91.7MM)
—Sam Hauser, $10.0MM (+ 3 yr, $35.0MM) into NTMLE

UTA trades:
—John Collins, $26.6MM Expiring
—Collin Sexton, $19.0MM Expiring
—Jordan Clarkson,$14.3MM Expiring
—Sviatoslav Mykhailiuk, $3.8MM + (2 yr, $7.9MM unguaranteed)
—Keyonte George, $4.3MM + 1 yr, $6.6MM + RFA
—2025 FRP #5
—2027 FRP, best of UTA, MIN, CLE
—2029 FRP, best of UTA, MIN, CLE
—2031 FRP, PHX unprotected

Why for the Celtics?
—Acquire four premium draft assets.
—Field a bottom team this coming season to maximize value of their own 2026 FRP.
—Shed $23.5MM this season (more can be shed via a Porzingis trade).
—Drop approx $54MM under the cap next summer (if my back of the napkin math is correct).

Why for the Jazz?
—Flip the script and take a stab at being competitive in the loaded west.

I think it’s win-win, but I may be off.

This is a useful way for Boston to drive Tatum out of town.

I would personally hate this. We just become Boston but with Lauri instead of Tatum and we'd lack some of their amazing depth pieces. I also think the value is just too much. With how competitive the West is it only takes one injury to miss the playoffs. IMO, I could see Collins/Sexton/5 for Brown. I would not do it b/c I don't think we are in a position for this kind of deal, but the rest of the value feels like too much for me.

Could you imagine if the Jazz tied up most of their future picks for a team clearly worse than 3 teams in their own division?

babyjax13 wrote:I would personally hate this. We just become Boston but with Lauri instead of Tatum and we'd lack some of their amazing depth pieces. I also think the value is just too much. With how competitive the West is it only takes one injury to miss the playoffs. IMO, I could see Collins/Sexton/5 for Brown. I would not do it b/c I don't think we are in a position for this kind of deal, but the rest of the value feels like too much for me.

A. I don't think this is a likely direction.
B. I prefer to stay the course, deepen the tank.
C. In this unlikely scenario, the depth might be okay. Depending on how well you draft at #21 and stack the twos and threes.

White, Collier
Sensabaugh, Juzang, Williams
Brown, Hauser, Martin
Markannen, Hendricks
Kessler, Filipowski

ReggiesKnicks wrote:Could you imagine if the Jazz tied up most of their future picks for a team clearly worse than 3 teams in their own division?

Yeah, I know that I'm way higher on Brown than most.

SkyHook wrote:

ReggiesKnicks wrote:Could you imagine if the Jazz tied up most of their future picks for a team clearly worse than 3 teams in their own division?

Yeah, I know that I'm way higher on Brown than most.

What makes you so high on him?

Box-scores doesn't love him
Advanced Stats (Box-Score and +/- composites) both hate him
Basic +/- and On/Off hates him
He isn't a good passer or playmaker
He isn't a good shooter

I understand his strengths quite well--switchable wing defender who has no true weaknesses defensively, can burden some lower-end possessions (think late shot-clock) to bolster offense. Basically Demar Derozan who is better defensively.

It is easy to be infatuated with DeMar Derozan types and they become increasingly valuable when they are on a team with a proven system and nucleus (See Boston of recent years, Curry Warriors adding Durant, Pre-Kawhi Raptors, My current Pacers could utilize this skill-set and currently utilized Mathurin in the role to varied success).

ReggiesKnicks wrote:

SkyHook wrote:

ReggiesKnicks wrote:Could you imagine if the Jazz tied up most of their future picks for a team clearly worse than 3 teams in their own division?

Yeah, I know that I'm way higher on Brown than most.

What makes you so high on him?

Box-scores doesn't love him
Advanced Stats (Box-Score and +/- composites) both hate him
Basic +/- and On/Off hates him
He isn't a good passer or playmaker
He isn't a good shooter

I understand his strengths quite well--switchable wing defender who has no true weaknesses defensively, can burden some lower-end possessions (think late shot-clock) to bolster offense. Basically Demar Derozan who is better defensively.

It is easy to be infatuated with DeMar Derozan types and they become increasingly valuable when they are on a team with a proven system and nucleus (See Boston of recent years, Curry Warriors adding Durant, Pre-Kawhi Raptors, My current Pacers could utilize this skill-set and currently utilized Mathurin in the role to varied success).

The defense is the premium, obviously, which I've always valued at the wing; maybe I'm just tired of watching turnstiles and matadors. He's been a better shooter than he's shown the last few seasons and has solid mechanics; I still have hope there (maybe a fool's hope). In my eyes, he's become a better and more willing passer as each year has progressed and he's shown that he can handle the big moments.

SkyHook wrote:

ReggiesKnicks wrote:

SkyHook wrote:
Yeah, I know that I'm way higher on Brown than most.

What makes you so high on him?

Box-scores doesn't love him
Advanced Stats (Box-Score and +/- composites) both hate him
Basic +/- and On/Off hates him
He isn't a good passer or playmaker
He isn't a good shooter

I understand his strengths quite well--switchable wing defender who has no true weaknesses defensively, can burden some lower-end possessions (think late shot-clock) to bolster offense. Basically Demar Derozan who is better defensively.

It is easy to be infatuated with DeMar Derozan types and they become increasingly valuable when they are on a team with a proven system and nucleus (See Boston of recent years, Curry Warriors adding Durant, Pre-Kawhi Raptors, My current Pacers could utilize this skill-set and currently utilized Mathurin in the role to varied success).

The defense is the premium, obviously, which I've always valued at the wing; maybe I'm just tired of watching turnstiles and matadors. He's been a better shooter than he's shown the last few seasons and has solid mechanics; I still have hope there (maybe a fool's hope). In my eyes, he's become a better and more willing passer as each year has progressed and he's shown that he can handle the big moments.

I agree with your take on Brown, but he plateaus in the top 20-35 in the nba range. You can't trade all this from UTA perspective and end up with him as your best player. You'll win more games than some might think, and maybe that's enough. But you're still at best 5-9 range in the west?

For BOS, it's the opposite, I don't think there's enough there to make them move off JB. I don't think you can bounce back from a tank job in time for Tatum's return. You'd have to have an insanely masterful 2026 off-season.

It's the right direction for Boston but I don't think the Jazz trade 4 FRPs to become a top 10 team in the conference. Also it's a very un-Ainge thing to do.

Horrible for UTA

White is too good of a contract and player for the Celtics to deal him. Not saying he is untouchable, but I bet he is the last guy (aside from Tatum), they would move.

In the deal you are certainly giving Boston some tasty future pieces, but I think they say no, because there is almost nothing left for them of realized value.

If the Celtics want to rebuild while Tatum is down this would be a decent return for Brown. I'd like to trade Holiday and keep White if I was the Celtics.

basketballwacko2 wrote:If the Celtics want to rebuild while Tatum is down this would be a decent return for Brown. I'd like to trade Holiday and keep White if I was the Celtics.

I get it, but to me if it's Holiday, then White's portion of the draft assets disappear and one would need to go in the opposite direction.

Kind of hate it for both teams. I think the value is fair, but doesn’t really make sense. Celtics close their window, and it’s not really enough for Utah to open theirs….unless the goal is to simply win a playoff series here or there.

brackdan70 wrote:Kind of hate it for both teams. I think the value is fair, but doesn’t really make sense. Celtics close their window, and it’s not really enough for Utah to open theirs….unless the goal is to simply win a playoff series here or there.

Yeah. Not my preferred direction for Utah, just playing with possibilities.

Take White and a couple picks out of the deal.
Brown and Hauser for Collins, Sexton, George, #5 and the 27 pick?

I agree with others that this is not smart for Utah. Boston wouldn't, but should, do it.

I do also want to say that I appreciate the premise of this post. You cut right to the chase and offer up big value for the prize you target, leaving it open for scrutiny. Sometimes (although, I'm grateful to observe, far less than in the early days of this forum) posters will make a deal from their team's POV like it's a negotiation, which just wastes everybody's time and makes such posters look silly. We also still see remnants of this mindset when fans critique a trade involving their team, not from all points of view, but narrowly from trying to extract maximum value for their team from an imaginary trade. Then the haggling begins, followed shortly by knocking down all the assets the other team is sending out, and so on.

I hope you'll continue posting bold trades in this spirit. And I don't mean any of the preceding to sound patronizing since I also blasted the trade lol. I just like bold, unguarded ideas shared without any apparent agenda.

Tim Lehrbach wrote:I agree with others that this is not smart for Utah. Boston wouldn't, but should, do it.

I do also want to say that I appreciate the premise of this post. You cut right to the chase and offer up big value for the prize you target, leaving it open for scrutiny. Sometimes (although, I'm grateful to observe, far less than in the early days of this forum) posters will make a deal from their team's POV like it's a negotiation, which just wastes everybody's time and makes such posters look silly. We also still see remnants of this mindset when fans critique a trade involving their team, not from all points of view, but narrowly from trying to extract maximum value for their team from an imaginary trade. Then the haggling begins, followed shortly by knocking down all the assets the other team is sending out, and so on.

I hope you'll continue posting bold trades in this spirit. And I don't mean any of the preceding to sound patronizing since I also blasted the trade lol. I just like bold, unguarded ideas shared without any apparent agenda.

Thanks, my friend. (One of the few here who's been around longer than me!) That's not to say that I don't absolutely blow it in the opposite direction. In my last ambitious attempt I thought that I was aiming over the top only to get (mostly) constructive feedback that I'd undershot.

brackdan70 wrote:Take White and a couple picks out of the deal.
Brown and Hauser for Collins, Sexton, George, #5 and the 27 pick?

I like this variation.