Wash-Sixers-SA

[pipfan]

I just don't like the fit of Harper in SA. I know he's the consensus #2 prospect, but I personally like VJ more (would LOVE for my Bulls to move up somehow)
I do think Washington should go all out to get him-they could use a foundation piece like him, and build around Harper/Sarr/Carrington
I think Philly should add more picks, since they have stars already and need depth/overall talent

NOTE-I'm counting Vassell as a negative contract here, which SA dumps to open up cap space next year and room for VJ/Castle to get minutes. If Vassell is not a negative, the swap with Smart can disappear

Wash sends Bilal, Smart and one of their future 1sts from other teams (not sure which-they're all complicated swaps) to SA and #18 to Sixers
Wash gets #2 and Vassell

SA sends #2 and Vassell to Wash
SA gets Bilal, #3, Smart and a future 1st from Wash

Philly sends #3 to SA
Philly gets #6/#18 and the best future Wash 1st that's not their own (not sure which is)

Philly gets 2 rookies, takes Maluach at 6 and BPA at 18. They have Maxey/McCain/Grimes in the backcourt, and pick the best wing at 18

SA goes with
Fox/Castle/Smart
Castle/VJ/Smart
Bilal/KJohnson
Sochan/Barnes
Wemby/?
I really like Castle/VJ long term, and Fox is an All Star now to lead the team. Bilal is best buds with Wemby and is tough on D. Maybe Barnes starts at the 3 instead?

Wash gets their guy, and has a backcourt for the future of Harper, Carrington, Vassell, with Sarr up front. They build from there

[One_and_Done]

This isn't remotely enough to get the #2. Not sure why the Spurs have to throw in Vassell either. A deal for the #2, if it were to happen, would be built around a young all-star. A good archetype would be a 25 year old Jaylen Brown. In that scenario, the Spurs trade a younger upcoming potential star, for a lower ceiling but proven #2.

Washington (and Philly since the Spurs don't need Maxey) don't have such a player, so your only option is to offer something so insane that:
1) The Spurs have to take it, and
2) The Wiz never offer it.

I'm talking 7 years of picks and swaps, including this years pick.

[nate33]

San Antonio is asking too much. I like Harper, but if the price is #3 and Bilal and a FRP just to move up one spot, I'd rather cut San Antonio out and just make a deal with Philly to land VJ.

San Antonio fans act like Harper is the second-coming of Christ or something. He's a moderately better prospect than VJ. Big whoop.

[One_and_Done]

San Antonio is asking too much. I like Harper, but if the price is #3 and Bilal and a FRP just to move up one spot, I'd rather cut San Antonio out and just make a deal with Philly to land VJ.

San Antonio fans act like Harper is the second-coming of Christ or something. He's a moderately better prospect than VJ. Big whoop.

Yeh that is not my read of their values at all. Harper is a guy who would go #1 alot of years, whereas I'm not even sure VJ should be top 5.

All the Spurs get in this trade is an unproven prospect of low value & a random 1st, when the gulf between 2 & 3 is a chasm. Spurs don't need to break up a dollar into 3 quarters (no NBA team should, not even for 5 quarters).

[nate33]

San Antonio is asking too much. I like Harper, but if the price is #3 and Bilal and a FRP just to move up one spot, I'd rather cut San Antonio out and just make a deal with Philly to land VJ.

San Antonio fans act like Harper is the second-coming of Christ or something. He's a moderately better prospect than VJ. Big whoop.

Yeh that is not my read of their values at all. Harper is a guy who would go #1 alot of years, whereas I'm not even sure VJ should be top 5.

All the Spurs get in this trade is an unproven prospect of low value & a random 1st, when the gulf between 2 & 3 is a chasm. Spurs don't need to break up a dollar into 3 quarters (no NBA team should, not even for 5 quarters).

That's fine. Draft Harper then. I'm not paying Bilal (a recent #7 pick) and another FRP to move up one freaking spot.

The real issue here is that San Antonio secretly understands that Harper isn't the best fit and they would actually be better off with VJ, Johnson or Bailey. They're posturing as if Harper is a sure-fire superstar so they can trade down and do what they actually want to do. I'm calling your bluff. I'd pay the much smaller price to move up to #3 and draft VJ.

[Frichuela]

San Antonio is asking too much. I like Harper, but if the price is #3 and Bilal and a FRP just to move up one spot, I'd rather cut San Antonio out and just make a deal with Philly to land VJ.

San Antonio fans act like Harper is the second-coming of Christ or something. He's a moderately better prospect than VJ. Big whoop.

Yeh that is not my read of their values at all. Harper is a guy who would go #1 alot of years, whereas I'm not even sure VJ should be top 5.

All the Spurs get in this trade is an unproven prospect of low value & a random 1st, when the gulf between 2 & 3 is a chasm. Spurs don't need to break up a dollar into 3 quarters (no NBA team should, not even for 5 quarters).

That's fine. Draft Harper then. I'm not paying Bilal (a recent #7 pick) and another FRP to move up one freaking spot.

The real issue here is that San Antonio secretly understands that Harper isn't the best fit and they would actually be better off with VJ, Johnson or Bailey. They're posturing as if Harper is a sure-fire superstar so they can trade down and do what they actually want to do. I'm calling your bluff. I'd pay the much smaller price to move up to #3 and draft VJ.

Amen Nate. This is the crux of the matter.

[penbeast0]

Still need to know which future pick is being talked about to see if Washington or Philly bite, even with San Antonio out of the deal. 6 and 18 and a low value future pick to Philly is a good deal if you believe in VJ or Bailey as a future star rather than taking a chance of Tre Johnson or Maluach; 6 and 18 and a high value future pick (like Washington's unprotected next year if they aren't good enough to send it to NY which seems unlikely) and it's a bad deal. That's sort of important . . . again, even without the San Antonio part of the deal (which does include Smart for Vassell fwiw).

[zimpy27]

I'd change to this:


Spurs get #6, McCain, Bilal
Wizards get #3
Sixers get #2

[zaz102]

I'd change to this:


Spurs get #6, McCain, Bilal
Wizards get #3
Sixers get #2

As a Sixers fan, I wouldn't do this. I think there's a high chance that McCain is better than Harper.

[zimpy27]

I'd change to this:


Spurs get #6, McCain, Bilal
Wizards get #3
Sixers get #2

As a Sixers fan, I wouldn't do this. I think there's a high chance that McCain is better than Harper.

McCain and Maxey too similar.
Harper with one of them is what you want.

[zaz102]

I'd change to this:


Spurs get #6, McCain, Bilal
Wizards get #3
Sixers get #2

As a Sixers fan, I wouldn't do this. I think there's a high chance that McCain is better than Harper.

McCain and Maxey too similar.
Harper with one of them is what you want.

I agree, and eventually a deal will probably have to be made, but I value McCain more than this.

[One_and_Done]

San Antonio is asking too much. I like Harper, but if the price is #3 and Bilal and a FRP just to move up one spot, I'd rather cut San Antonio out and just make a deal with Philly to land VJ.

San Antonio fans act like Harper is the second-coming of Christ or something. He's a moderately better prospect than VJ. Big whoop.

Yeh that is not my read of their values at all. Harper is a guy who would go #1 alot of years, whereas I'm not even sure VJ should be top 5.

All the Spurs get in this trade is an unproven prospect of low value & a random 1st, when the gulf between 2 & 3 is a chasm. Spurs don't need to break up a dollar into 3 quarters (no NBA team should, not even for 5 quarters).

That's fine. Draft Harper then. I'm not paying Bilal (a recent #7 pick) and another FRP to move up one freaking spot.

The real issue here is that San Antonio secretly understands that Harper isn't the best fit and they would actually be better off with VJ, Johnson or Bailey. They're posturing as if Harper is a sure-fire superstar so they can trade down and do what they actually want to do. I'm calling your bluff. I'd pay the much smaller price to move up to #3 and draft VJ.

I think this is offbase.

Firstly, how do Tre Johnson or VJ avoid the guard clog issue in San Antonio? At least Harper is 6-6. Those guys are less multi-positional than he is. If Ace works out he’s a cleaner fit, but there’s a reason nobody has Ace at #2. Everyone is confident Harper is better than him. Smart teams don’t draft for fit, except in some extreme cases. The Spurs are a smart team, so the idea that they’re going to pass on the best player available doesn’t make sense. If there are some fit issues, they can resolve those down the line. Potentially there won’t be fit issues as well, which is another key point. After listening to Nate Duncan’s podcast about VJ, I’m starting to wonder if he’s even going in the top 5. He has far more fit issues with the Spurs than Harper.

It's entirely possible that the Spurs have little to no fit issues. This offseason could see them trade for KD at a relatively low price, then roll out a starting unit of Wemby, Fox, KD, Barnes/Vassell, and then the 5th starter is one of Castle, Harper or Sochan. I don’t see much issue with doing that. Usually young guards need some time to develop, so Harper coming off the bench for a year or 2 is probably sensible, and as he gets better you deal with any fit issues once he’s ready. That might be moving Fox, or it would just be making Castle into an Iggy like 6th man. Or maybe you can play all three of them, since Castle is 6-6 and strong enough to play the 3, and Fox and Harper are already a large backcourt.

I think the excitement about Harper has been pretty loud all year. It has nothing to do with the Spurs drafting him, people thought this guy was going to be a star from the start. They would only be better off with VJ/Tre/Ace if those guys are better players, and nobody thinks that is the likely outcome. Honestly, it might be more likely for an underrated guy like Fears to contend to be one of the best guys in this draft than Tre or VJ. I am not advocating the Wizards try to trade for Harper by paying a lot, because I don’t think it’s even feasible. If I was them, I’d be focussed on who the right pick is at #6. There are guys there who are possible all-stars, they’re just riskier.

[pipfan]

This isn't remotely enough to get the #2. Not sure why the Spurs have to throw in Vassell either. A deal for the #2, if it were to happen, would be built around a young all-star. A good archetype would be a 25 year old Jaylen Brown. In that scenario, the Spurs trade a younger upcoming potential star, for a lower ceiling but proven #2.

Washington (and Philly since the Spurs don't need Maxey) don't have such a player, so your only option is to offer something so insane that:
1) The Spurs have to take it, and
2) The Wiz never offer it.

I'm talking 7 years of picks and swaps, including this years pick.

As I mentioned, the Vassell/Smart swap is to benefit SA IF they see him as a long term negative. If not, take it out.

I like Castle/VJ long term together, and Fox can run the team well for now.

I see a big logjam with Harper/Fox/Castle/Vassell in the backcourt

[PhillyNj]

I'd change to this:


Spurs get #6, McCain, Bilal
Wizards get #3
Sixers get #2

As a Sixers fan, I wouldn't do this. I think there's a high chance that McCain is better than Harper.

As a Sixers fan this is a joke. McCain was the favorite for ROY until he got hurt. So you want to trade the guy who was hands down the ROY( until injury) AND the third pick to move up 1 spot in the draft. I’m sorry but that’s insane.

[GatherStepGuru]

I'd change to this:


Spurs get #6, McCain, Bilal
Wizards get #3
Sixers get #2

Dont like it for Washington.
GIving up one young prospect (Bilal is 20 and averaged 12 last yeat) AND a lottery pick for a shot at another raw prospect is too rich I think.

[One_and_Done]

This isn't remotely enough to get the #2. Not sure why the Spurs have to throw in Vassell either. A deal for the #2, if it were to happen, would be built around a young all-star. A good archetype would be a 25 year old Jaylen Brown. In that scenario, the Spurs trade a younger upcoming potential star, for a lower ceiling but proven #2.

Washington (and Philly since the Spurs don't need Maxey) don't have such a player, so your only option is to offer something so insane that:
1) The Spurs have to take it, and
2) The Wiz never offer it.

I'm talking 7 years of picks and swaps, including this years pick.

As I mentioned, the Vassell/Smart swap is to benefit SA IF they see him as a long term negative. If not, take it out.

I like Castle/VJ long term together, and Fox can run the team well for now.

I see a big logjam with Harper/Fox/Castle/Vassell in the backcourt

If Vassell needs to come off the bench that's fine. I als8 don't understand why Castle/VJ fits well, but Castle/Harper doesn't. Harper is bigger and stronger than VJ, and they are similar 3pt shooters. Surely the Spure want the better player.

Right now, the Spurs starting line-up looks to be something like Wemby, Fox, Barnes, and then 2 of Harper/Castle/Vassell/Sochan, depending on a) how good Harper looks, and b) how much Castle/Sochan have improved as 3pt shooters. Once Harper is ready he'll start in the back court next to Fox, which is fine because that's a big backcourt. Castle/Vassell can both play the 3, but if there fit issues they can look at moving Castle or Fox in a year or two. There's no rush.

[9 and 20]

I don't know how much better a prospect Ace Bailey is than Bilal Coulibaly. Trading number 6 to exchange Bilal for Ace doesn't make sense for the Wizards.

[pipfan]

I don't know how much better a prospect Ace Bailey is than Bilal Coulibaly. Trading number 6 to exchange Bilal for Ace doesn't make sense for the Wizards.

Wash is doing this to get to #2, for Harper