RealGM

Boston trades KP, Holiday
gets Tobias Harris, Vucevic, DET '27 FRP (top 3 protected)
Rationale: Celtics already have Pritch waiting in the wings to take over at pg, of course they have to back-fill 6th man role, but there are affordable options out there. Vuc takes the role of KP, obviously more durable, a tick better on the boards, worse defensively. Harris takes some of the Tatum role allowing Celtics to be competitive through the season. In addition to the FRP, the expiring contracts coming in are a part of the asset. Celtics have good draft assets and should be able to get under the 2nd apron to make a splash trade near the deadline if one opens up.

Pistons trade Harris, Stewart, '27 FRP (top 3 protected)
get KP, Norman Powell
Rationale: I believe this allows them to re-sign their own players. Losing the pick does impact them when it comes to future trades, but they have a pretty flexible roster. Pistons really wanted that stretch big with shot blocking (Reid) and KP allows them to get that without losing their pending FA's. I will admit this feels a little incomplete, but I can see the value added.

Clippers trade Powell, Dunn
get Jrue.

Rationale: Clippers were at their best with Dunn on defense, but his offense held them back to some degree. That won't be a problem for Jrue who is crafty enough on offense to not be a guy who gets played off. I will admit that I don't really have a good sense of Powell's value since he seemed to have a break out year last year, but I think all things considered, I would feel good if I was the Clippers and got this deal done.

Bulls trade Vucevic, get Stew and Dunn
rationale: double up on defense and toughness. Stew and Collins are both always looking to square up, if they don't break each others chins, they will be a litter pain in the butt to play against. Dunn can come in as a role player POA defender. He can be played off at times, but his role enables that to happen here. Team defense improves, Bulls have a really good pace type of team.

Harris>KP Vuc>Holiday, and you have BOS receiving 1st rd pick...
Pistons shouldn't touch this...

I think you probably need more significant protection on that 2027 FRP. Probably Lotto protected and turning into a second.
For the Clippers I could see them making a play for Jrue…but not sure about them moving Powell to do so? Maybe.
This seems really good for Chicago right?

Mavrelous wrote:Harris>KP Vuc>Holiday, and you have BOS receiving 1st rd pick...
Pistons shouldn't touch this...

Is this really accurate in valuation?
I guess if you assume KP is still sick and injured and Holiday is washed.

brackdan70 wrote:

Mavrelous wrote:Harris>KP Vuc>Holiday, and you have BOS receiving 1st rd pick...
Pistons shouldn't touch this...

Is this really accurate in valuation?
I guess if you assume KP is still sick and injured and Holiday is washed.

It is accurate, w/o needing any assumptions.

KP hasn't been healthy to any PO in his entire career, in addition to missing tons of RS games, Tobias hasn't missed a PO his team qualified to that I can remember, both are productive players, it's not like Tobias is a nobody, Tobias has more value than KP w/o a question.
Jrue is 35 y/o and has 3 very expensive years on his deal, and his stats indicate a very visible decline, Vuc is an expiring, while Jrue is a better player, factoring contract makes it also very obvious Vuc has higher trade value.

Really hard pass from detroit. We can resign our own players already if we want without giving up 2 rotation guys and a pick.

Mavrelous wrote:

brackdan70 wrote:

Mavrelous wrote:Harris>KP Vuc>Holiday, and you have BOS receiving 1st rd pick...
Pistons shouldn't touch this...

Is this really accurate in valuation?
I guess if you assume KP is still sick and injured and Holiday is washed.

It is accurate, w/o needing any assumptions.

KP hasn't been healthy to any PO in his entire career, in addition to missing tons of RS games, Tobias hasn't missed a PO his team qualified to that I can remember, both are productive players, it's not like Tobias is a nobody, Tobias has more value than KP w/o a question.
Jrue is 35 y/o and has 3 very expensive years on his deal, and his stats indicate a very visible decline, Vuc is an expiring, while Jrue is a better player, factoring contract makes it also very obvious Vuc has higher trade value.

I can hear both sides of it in the Jrue/Powell piece.

The KP/Harris valuation ... I don't agree at all. harris is a nice player. KP is the type of piece Detroit is actively looking for. If KP is a shell of himself, then sure, but KP medically cleared and free of whatever illness he had is 100% worth Harris and a FRP. We can talk details on the protections, but not buying for a moment that DET wouldn't lunge at that.

I suspect it's going to prove very difficult for the Celtics to recoup value and shed salary while trading Jrue or Porzingis. It may prove difficult to just shed salary without adding value.

No

Kris Dunn had his run in CHI, didn't you know that? He was injured, rehabbed, struggled to get his game back the was injured again. Repeat. He doesn't want a return visit. Stewart wouldn't be bad for the Bulls, they'd have three somewhat average centers which might be fine. Right now they have Lonzo Ball, Ayo Dosunmu and even Jevon Carter as guards with defense, this ain't bridge don't need a 4th

Find somebody more attractive than Kris Dunn and it's a deal

Celtics obviously getting massively worse on the court here but the value of the salary savings more than make up for that. They can't get a pick here. They're probably going to have to accept a pretty terrible basketball trade if they seek financial value, can't have your cake and eat it too.

LAC make sense for Jrue but gotta add Eubanks and some more filler to avoid hard cap issues. Pistons make sense for Porzingis, but don't see the fit for an actual trade based on the contracts they have.

nykballa2k4 wrote:The KP/Harris valuation ... I don't agree at all. harris is a nice player. KP is the type of piece Detroit is actively looking for. If KP is a shell of himself, then sure, but KP medically cleared and free of whatever illness he had is 100% worth Harris and a FRP. We can talk details on the protections, but not buying for a moment that DET wouldn't lunge at that.

We'll agree to strongly disagree, but last time KP was medically cleared he barely returned anything, definitely less than Harris + 1st, he then managed to miss or play hobbled in 2 consecutive PO while averaging less than 50 games in RS, I can totally buy DET not lunging at that.

Tell me you hate the Pistons, without telling me you hate the Pistons.

Imagine the Pistons paying a first for the right to sabotage some of Cade’s prime by hitching his success to an often injured, overpaid player that has proven he’ll never fulfill his potential.

hugepatsfan wrote:Celtics obviously getting massively worse on the court here but the value of the salary savings more than make up for that. They can't get a pick here. They're probably going to have to accept a pretty terrible basketball trade if they seek financial value, can't have your cake and eat it too.

LAC make sense for Jrue but gotta add Eubanks and some more filler to avoid hard cap issues. Pistons make sense for Porzingis, but don't see the fit for an actual trade based on the contracts they have.

100

Celtics can either save a bunch of money, or get assets, but not both

The theory of KP on DET is enticing, but getting him as an expiring when DET has 3 rotation vets FAs plus 3 rookies up for extensions in the next 13 months would be a surprising and risky gamble and not really make sense from a cap management perspective.

Mavrelous wrote:

brackdan70 wrote:

Mavrelous wrote:Harris>KP Vuc>Holiday, and you have BOS receiving 1st rd pick...
Pistons shouldn't touch this...

Is this really accurate in valuation?
I guess if you assume KP is still sick and injured and Holiday is washed.

It is accurate, w/o needing any assumptions.

KP hasn't been healthy to any PO in his entire career, in addition to missing tons of RS games, Tobias hasn't missed a PO his team qualified to that I can remember, both are productive players, it's not like Tobias is a nobody, Tobias has more value than KP w/o a question.
Jrue is 35 y/o and has 3 very expensive years on his deal, and his stats indicate a very visible decline, Vuc is an expiring, while Jrue is a better player, factoring contract makes it also very obvious Vuc has higher trade value.

Fair enough. I disagree though and don’t think it’s that obvious. I think the decline and contract negative for Jrue is exaggerated and is a bit of a false narrative.
I’d rather keep KP than trade him for Harris. To me he is a much better player, though yes the availability is an issue.

GreekAlex wrote:Tell me you hate the Pistons, without telling me you hate the Pistons.

Imagine the Pistons paying a first for the right to sabotage some of Cade’s prime by hitching his success to an often injured, overpaid player that has proven he’ll never fulfill his potential.

Yep every single time a poster has an idea for Detroit that you personally don't like it means they hate the Pistons...... Never understand the point of comments like this.

If you don't like the deal cool, tell us why. That's helpful.

hugepatsfan wrote:Celtics obviously getting massively worse on the court here but the value of the salary savings more than make up for that. They can't get a pick here. They're probably going to have to accept a pretty terrible basketball trade if they seek financial value, can't have your cake and eat it too.

LAC make sense for Jrue but gotta add Eubanks and some more filler to avoid hard cap issues. Pistons make sense for Porzingis, but don't see the fit for an actual trade based on the contracts they have.

Not commenting on the rest of the deal value, but BOS is only saving $15M here - from the 2 players they need to save more from. At best after this you're dumping Hauser for free then having to be super careful about the rest to duck the 2nd. I get that savings has value, but I'm just not seeing that much of it here.

djFan71 wrote:

hugepatsfan wrote:Celtics obviously getting massively worse on the court here but the value of the salary savings more than make up for that. They can't get a pick here. They're probably going to have to accept a pretty terrible basketball trade if they seek financial value, can't have your cake and eat it too.

LAC make sense for Jrue but gotta add Eubanks and some more filler to avoid hard cap issues. Pistons make sense for Porzingis, but don't see the fit for an actual trade based on the contracts they have.

Not commenting on the rest of the deal value, but BOS is only saving $15M here - from the 2 players they need to save more from. At best after this you're dumping Hauser for free then having to be super careful about the rest to duck the 2nd. I get that savings has value, but I'm just not seeing that much of it here.

$15M this year, but it's all expiring so also another $70M or so in future years. Doesn't help BOS with their current year crunch, but that's still real world financial value being granted to them in the deal. That has to be included in the value proposition.

Swapping KP for Tobias introduces risk we don’t need. Paying to do that makes no sense.
Swapping Stew for Powell causes major roster imbalance. We have plenty of 2/3’s and not enough bigs.

Overall, easy and quick NO.

Texas Chuck wrote:

GreekAlex wrote:Tell me you hate the Pistons, without telling me you hate the Pistons.

Imagine the Pistons paying a first for the right to sabotage some of Cade’s prime by hitching his success to an often injured, overpaid player that has proven he’ll never fulfill his potential.

Yep every single time a poster has an idea for Detroit that you personally don't like it means they hate the Pistons...... Never understand the point of comments like this.

If you don't like the deal cool, tell us why. That's helpful.

Maybe we communicate differently.

I don’t believe that there’s anyone “hating” the Pistons. I thought the laughing emoji made it clear that it was a ligh-hearted joke. If the emoji didn’t load, you may need to update your browser.

Did you miss the second half of my post where I explained what I disliked? I did tell you why.

hugepatsfan wrote:

djFan71 wrote:

hugepatsfan wrote:Celtics obviously getting massively worse on the court here but the value of the salary savings more than make up for that. They can't get a pick here. They're probably going to have to accept a pretty terrible basketball trade if they seek financial value, can't have your cake and eat it too.

LAC make sense for Jrue but gotta add Eubanks and some more filler to avoid hard cap issues. Pistons make sense for Porzingis, but don't see the fit for an actual trade based on the contracts they have.

Not commenting on the rest of the deal value, but BOS is only saving $15M here - from the 2 players they need to save more from. At best after this you're dumping Hauser for free then having to be super careful about the rest to duck the 2nd. I get that savings has value, but I'm just not seeing that much of it here.

$15M this year, but it's all expiring so also another $70M or so in future years. Doesn't help BOS with their current year crunch, but that's still real world financial value being granted to them in the deal. That has to be included in the value proposition.

I'm not sure you count the full $70M, tbh. Jrue is still a valuable contributor in those remaining 2 years, so maybe you count it as half that? Yes, you're saving in pure salary standpoint, but you're losing a lot of on court value too.

But the main point is this isn't some great deal for BOS given the 25-26 financials. Vuc & Harris are at least decent, but you're kinda stuck in no man's land where you haven't reset the tax, you aren't competing int 25-26, you don't gain any assets (if pick is removed) and you don't have tradeable salary for 26 summer. You can do S&T for a few 2nds maybe, but you're not adding players to help compete with Tatum back.

You can obviously make further moves with Vuc/Harris, but they're not low salary guys that fit into exceptions easily, so it's a little harder.