RealGM

Here's the team needs:

- LAL wants a playoff ready C who can cleanup the boards, finish lobs, and play D. They are willing to dangle Knecht + future picks.
- Toronto wants a 'big fish' next to Ingram+Scottie. They are willing to dangle #9 + RJ Barrett.
- Utah is rebuilding. Despite publicly saying no to an overt tank next year, they want to accumulate young assets+picks. They will listen on Kessler/Lauri and their vets.


The trade:

LAL gets: Jak Poeltl
LAL trades: Dalton Knecht, '31 1st, Expiring Bad Salary (Gabe Vincent, Maxi Kleber)

Toronto gets: Lauri Markannen, Walker Kessler
Toronto trades: #9, RJ Barrett, Jak Poeltl

Utah gets: #9, RJ Barrett, Dalton Knecht, '31 LAL 1st, Expiring Bad Salary (Gabe Vincent, Maxi Kleber)
Utah trades: Lauri Markannen, Walker Kessler




LAL gets their C who can cleanup after LBJ, Luka, Reaves.
Toronto gets their 3rd star + C replacement
Utah gets to have 2 top 10 picks now, plus assets for the future.

A lightning fast no from Utah.

SkyHook wrote:A lightning fast no from Utah.

What do they want?

I think LAL could be adding some value tbh.

IMO Lauri is a bit overrated as he’s injury prone (played 65+ games only 2 out of 8 years), has never made the playoffs even once, but he gets paid like a big star.

MessiahUjiri wrote:

SkyHook wrote:A lightning fast no from Utah.

What do they want?

I think LAL could be adding some value tbh.

IMO Lauri is a bit overrated as he’s injury prone (played 65+ games only 2 out of 8 years), has never made the playoffs even once, but he gets paid like a big star.

Utah will want something like this

Kessler/Collins for Rui, Reaves, Knecht, FRP and pick swap and some Laker fans even told me this is too much, but sometimes you have to overpay to get what you want. Ainge probably won't deal with Lakers again unless they're fleecing the Lakers and Reaves is involved.

Will probably have to include an expiring contract and picks along with any Kessler deal.

Not very interested In Poetl, he is on the decline and not really a lob threat

Rather just get Goga for less if hes available and take a swing on RW3 at that point

1st+expiring Kleber or expiring Gabe for Goga and a 2nd
Expiring Kleber or Gabe and Shake for salary+2 2nds for RW3

Or something like Knecht+expiring r Vando for Goga+2nd
And then send couple 2nds to Portland for Rw3 with expiring

Then can use the remaining asset (1st or Knecht) plus Rui (plus salary if needed) for a wing POA defender, such as Wiggins

ooo boy. We have the propose a trade for a player, get a little pushback, and start in on the negging of the player we wanted for our team. One of my least favorite tropes.

Setting that aside though, I don't understand how Lauri fits a team with Barnes/BI. Not sure that trio is what I want to invest my payroll in really.

MessiahUjiri wrote:

SkyHook wrote:A lightning fast no from Utah.

What do they want?

I think LAL could be adding some value tbh.

IMO Lauri is a bit overrated as he’s injury prone (played 65+ games only 2 out of 8 years), has never made the playoffs even once, but he gets paid like a big star.

I understand your rationale and that's fine, but do you think that the Jazz value Lauri this way? I think that Utah is more inclined to keep him than to trade him, partially because he wants to be in Utah (and the feeling is mutual) and partially because of the massive disparity in valuation internally vs externally. I'm starting to warm to the idea that Kessler could be moved, but I think it would take a lot to pry him free. I don't think this deal is salvageable.

nzahir wrote:Not very interested In Poetl, he is on the decline and not really a lob threat

Rather just get Goga for less if hes available and take a swing on RW3 at that point

1st+expiring Kleber or expiring Gabe for Goga and a 2nd
Expiring Kleber or Gabe and Shake for salary+2 2nds for RW3

Or something like Knecht+expiring r Vando for Goga+2nd
And then send couple 2nds to Portland for Rw3 with expiring

Then can use the remaining asset (1st or Knecht) plus Rui (plus salary if needed) for a wing POA defender, such as Wiggins

Last year was his best season and he's under 30; what would make you think he's declining?

edit: nevermind... uncalled for snark deleted...

Texas Chuck wrote:ooo boy. We have the propose a trade for a player, get a little pushback, and start in on the negging of the player we wanted for our team. One of my least favorite tropes.

Setting that aside though, I don't understand how Lauri fits a team with Barnes/BI. Not sure that trio is what I want to invest my payroll in really.

Yes, this is my least favorite recurring theme on this sub-forum. Someone proposes a trade where they get a player, other people tell them the player they are getting should be valued higher, so they immediately go "this guy is so overrated... he's constantly injured...", etc.

So... why do you want him then?

Texas Chuck wrote:ooo boy. We have the propose a trade for a player, get a little pushback, and start in on the negging of the player we wanted for our team. One of my least favorite tropes.

Setting that aside though, I don't understand how Lauri fits a team with Barnes/BI. Not sure that trio is what I want to invest my payroll in really.

I think the major issue there is the Barnes-BI combination. Lauri is a really excellent fit with one of them because he stretches the floor and is fairly low usage, but I'm not sure with both of those players + other high/ish usage guys is great. Since Lauri doesn't dominate the ball I'd worry about him getting cut out.

stitches wrote:

MessiahUjiri wrote:

SkyHook wrote:A lightning fast no from Utah.

What do they want?

I think LAL could be adding some value tbh.

IMO Lauri is a bit overrated as he’s injury prone (played 65+ games only 2 out of 8 years), has never made the playoffs even once, but he gets paid like a big star.

You are probably right. Lauri is very overrated and injury prone... in fact... he's so overrated you should take him out of this trade and substitute him for John Collins and the value shouldn't suffer much. So how about this from Utah's side:

Utah gets: #9, RJ Barrett, Dalton Knecht, '31 LAL 1st, Expiring Bad Salary (Gabe Vincent, Maxi Kleber)
Utah trades: John Collins, Jordan Clarkson, Walker Kessler

And we have a board policy against this kind of thing. One sucky post shouldn't lead to another one guys. What do we think this accomplishes?

Johnston wrote:

nzahir wrote:Not very interested In Poetl, he is on the decline and not really a lob threat

Rather just get Goga for less if hes available and take a swing on RW3 at that point

1st+expiring Kleber or expiring Gabe for Goga and a 2nd
Expiring Kleber or Gabe and Shake for salary+2 2nds for RW3

Or something like Knecht+expiring r Vando for Goga+2nd
And then send couple 2nds to Portland for Rw3 with expiring

Then can use the remaining asset (1st or Knecht) plus Rui (plus salary if needed) for a wing POA defender, such as Wiggins

Last year was his best season and he's under 30; what would make you think he's declining?

?lang=ar-x-fm

His LEBRON data showed he had his 2nd worst defensive season and same for his O lebron

Could be the team around him as well, but not an ideal target and definitely not for that price

If we cant get a top end target, risk it for Ayton, or find a fair price for even a guy like Claxton/Gafford, then I rather go for Rw3 and Goga than Jakob even

Texas Chuck wrote:

stitches wrote:

MessiahUjiri wrote:

What do they want?

I think LAL could be adding some value tbh.

IMO Lauri is a bit overrated as he’s injury prone (played 65+ games only 2 out of 8 years), has never made the playoffs even once, but he gets paid like a big star.

You are probably right. Lauri is very overrated and injury prone... in fact... he's so overrated you should take him out of this trade and substitute him for John Collins and the value shouldn't suffer much. So how about this from Utah's side:

Utah gets: #9, RJ Barrett, Dalton Knecht, '31 LAL 1st, Expiring Bad Salary (Gabe Vincent, Maxi Kleber)
Utah trades: John Collins, Jordan Clarkson, Walker Kessler

And we have a board policy against this kind of thing. One sucky post shouldn't lead to another one guys. What do we think this accomplishes?

Apologies, it just got me peeved... this is my bad.

stitches wrote:

Texas Chuck wrote:ooo boy. We have the propose a trade for a player, get a little pushback, and start in on the negging of the player we wanted for our team. One of my least favorite tropes.

Setting that aside though, I don't understand how Lauri fits a team with Barnes/BI. Not sure that trio is what I want to invest my payroll in really.

Yes, this is my least favorite recurring theme on this sub-forum. Someone proposes a trade where they get a player, other people tell them the player they are getting should be valued higher, so they immediately go "this guy is so overrated... he's constantly injured...", etc.

So... why do you want him then?

That seems totally unfair. Just because we have different assessments of a player doesn’t mean it’s “negging”.

In this case: Lauri is a very good player, but his trade value is not the same as other players due to his injury history, lack of winning, and high salary. This means teams can still be interested in him, but he doesn’t get a star premium.

To me Lauri is like the anti-Dirk in some ways. He scores and shoots well like a lite-Dirk, but Dirk’s impact was greater than the raw numbers suggest, and he elevated his teammates. Lauri doesn’t do that, so he shouldn’t get a star price.

Finally; I see the hesitation of a Scottie-Ingram-Lauri trio. To me it works because Scottie is more of a passer who also plays a defacto big guard role. Ingram is a midrange scorer, and Lauri is a long range sniper.

nzahir wrote:

Johnston wrote:

nzahir wrote:Not very interested In Poetl, he is on the decline and not really a lob threat

Rather just get Goga for less if hes available and take a swing on RW3 at that point

1st+expiring Kleber or expiring Gabe for Goga and a 2nd
Expiring Kleber or Gabe and Shake for salary+2 2nds for RW3

Or something like Knecht+expiring r Vando for Goga+2nd
And then send couple 2nds to Portland for Rw3 with expiring

Then can use the remaining asset (1st or Knecht) plus Rui (plus salary if needed) for a wing POA defender, such as Wiggins

Last year was his best season and he's under 30; what would make you think he's declining?

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

?lang=ar-x-fm

His LEBRON data showed he had his 2nd worst defensive season and same for his O lebron

Could be the team around him as well, but not an ideal target and definitely not for that price

If we cant get a top end target, risk it for Ayton, or find a fair price for even a guy like Claxton/Gafford, then I rather go for Rw3 and Goga than Jakob even

That second tweet doesn't look right. He's 15th among centers in dFG% vs expectations within 6 ft and he's in the 83rd percentile in d-EPM.

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/defense-dash-lt6?CF=G*G*20:FGA_LT_06*GE*5&PlayerPosition=C&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&dir=A&sort=PLUSMINUS

MessiahUjiri wrote:

stitches wrote:

Texas Chuck wrote:ooo boy. We have the propose a trade for a player, get a little pushback, and start in on the negging of the player we wanted for our team. One of my least favorite tropes.

Setting that aside though, I don't understand how Lauri fits a team with Barnes/BI. Not sure that trio is what I want to invest my payroll in really.

Yes, this is my least favorite recurring theme on this sub-forum. Someone proposes a trade where they get a player, other people tell them the player they are getting should be valued higher, so they immediately go "this guy is so overrated... he's constantly injured...", etc.

So... why do you want him then?

That seems totally unfair. Just because we have different assessments of a player doesn’t mean it’s “negging”.

In this case: Lauri is a very good player, but his trade value is not the same as other players due to his injury history, lack of winning, and high salary. This means teams can still be interested in him, but he doesn’t get a star premium.

To me Lauri is like the anti-Dirk in some ways. He scores and shoots well like a lite-Dirk, but Dirk’s impact was greater than the raw numbers suggest, and he elevated his teammates. Lauri doesn’t do that, so he shouldn’t get a star price.

Finally; I see the hesitation of a Scottie-Ingram-Lauri trio. To me it works because Scottie is more of a passer who also plays a defacto big guard role. Ingram is a midrange scorer, and Lauri is a long range sniper.

For me: I like RJ and I think that WK (because he is due to be paid soon) is ~ #9
I am probably in the minority in thinking RJ is well worth his contract, so even though Lauri is overpaid, a Jazz fan is probably going to not like that offer.

IMO the total package is close, but the kicker is the end goal. For me, I see a value drop off after pick 7 so 9 is sorta useless.
Lauri is their best player (even if overrated, overpaid) so if they are trading him, they have to have hope of bringing in a guy who can carry a billboard and be worth seeing in person. This really isn't accomplished here, so I think it's a bad situation-fit. Not sure it can be rectified without another team taking the boring assets (RJ, Lakers pick) and turning it into a more exciting piece.