RealGM

Jock Landale, Cam Whitmore

For

Matisse Thybulle


For Blazers, with Simons gone and Jrue in (for now) they could use someone a higher scoring punch upside, Thybulle is 28, and Toumani has developed into a player that makes him expendable as well. Cam is an extremely explosive and gifted athlete who racks up points fast, but has questionable maturity and IQ. 2 years left on his rookie deal. Jock is an expiring filler and could be bought out.

for Houston, I hate moving Whitmore now instead of giving him another shot (at least until the deadline), but he seems to be in Ime’s dog house and this lines up perfect with the portrayed vision of moving on from Cam and bringing in a a Dillon replacement on defense. Thybulle is an elite defender who has been improving his jump shot, but missed a ton of time last season with a knee surgery and ankle injury. Is an expiring player.

Thybulle opted in which usually means his contract is under water and I generally have never thought he's very good so I'd rather just use the mle or take the mle into the season as this would prevent them from keeping it and being under the apron

I kinda like it for portland

I will need at least 3 or 4 more centers for this trade to make sense for Portland.

K_chile22 wrote:Thybulle opted in which usually means his contract is under water and I generally have never thought he's very good so I'd rather just use the mle or take the mle into the season as this would prevent them from keeping it and being under the apron

Perhaps we could get a 2nd or two out of it. Or perhaps keep whitmore or move him elsewhere and just take Thybulle into our MLE if Blazers are fine with just getting off of him.

Thybulle is a seriously elite defender, he’s had some injuries, and is very limited on offense, but the last few seasons he showed life on improving his 3PT percentage and volume, if he’s a guy who can get healthy, average 35% on decent volume from 3 (say 2 3PM per 36) he can be a great piece.

ThatBoyNick wrote:

K_chile22 wrote:Thybulle opted in which usually means his contract is under water and I generally have never thought he's very good so I'd rather just use the mle or take the mle into the season as this would prevent them from keeping it and being under the apron

Perhaps we could get a 2nd or two out of it. Or perhaps keep whitmore or move him elsewhere and just take Thybulle into our MLE if Blazers are fine with just getting off of him.

Thybulle is a seriously elite defender, he’s had some injuries, and is very limited on offense, but the last few seasons he showed life on improving his 3PT percentage and volume, if he’s a guy who can get healthy, average 35% on decent volume from 3 (say 2 3PM per 36) he can be a great piece.

He is not an elite defender, he's an elite stocks guy but he sells out for them. If he was as good as you are saying he'd be a free agent right now

Don't like it from an asset / cap management standpoint.

With the cap crunch, we also have to make sure every dollar spent is going to someone who is worth it / contributes. For Houston it's better to not spend than to give out a bad deal. Don't think MT is all that effective, and we need to find someone a little more offensive oriented.

I'd just keep Cam for the cheap years and use a the MLE to get another solid rotation player. I'm eyeing Jerome or Harden. If Cam still doesn't find footing this year, I'd move him next offseason, unless a great deal comes along.

Furthermore I think we are at a standstill until we know more about the Durant, Tari and Bari extensions. There is a fascinating sub plot in the long term cap management, where we have all this new spend coming in, and we have to balance the new spend for the new players, with the rising cap numbers, and then pick the right time to cut bait with older guys, all while staying just under the tax line. Its basically impossible to keep a team intact once the tax line gets crossed, so these extensions / negotiations are so so so critical.

We are fortunate in that we seem to have a very savvy front office when it comes to the new CBA....the Green / Brooks salary matching magic with Durant, where the flipping of Brooks trade bonus made both sides duck the hard cap was nothing short of brilliant. They had to have set that up way far in advance, which I don't think anyone saw as a possibility before hand.

Based on my own schedules and speculation, here is what I think they might try to do:
- Try to extend both Jabari and Tari at 25 per year.
- I think they will offer Durant less money, but more years. ( 4 years 120m)
- Add MLE player, id look at Harden / Durant
- Fill out the roster with mins / two ways

I think Thybulle is better right now, especially based on the defensive gap, so this would have to be an investment for Portland in the future (Whitmore only turns 21 in a week). I don’t love having to waste a roster spot on Jock, nor do I like waiving such a contract, because then it can’t be traded away. So I guess that is the trade off? I think overall it is worth it for development purposes for Portland, though for similar reasons, I think Houston says no unless they really want that defensive upgrade and/or extra roster spot.

K_chile22 wrote:

ThatBoyNick wrote:

K_chile22 wrote:Thybulle opted in which usually means his contract is under water and I generally have never thought he's very good so I'd rather just use the mle or take the mle into the season as this would prevent them from keeping it and being under the apron

Perhaps we could get a 2nd or two out of it. Or perhaps keep whitmore or move him elsewhere and just take Thybulle into our MLE if Blazers are fine with just getting off of him.

Thybulle is a seriously elite defender, he’s had some injuries, and is very limited on offense, but the last few seasons he showed life on improving his 3PT percentage and volume, if he’s a guy who can get healthy, average 35% on decent volume from 3 (say 2 3PM per 36) he can be a great piece.

He is not an elite defender, he's an elite stocks guy but he sells out for them. If he was as good as you are saying he'd be a free agent right now

he seems pretty elite at D to me. he's been named to the All-NBA-Defense teams twice. He's led Portland in DBPM both of the last 2 seasons. He consistently had better defensive ratings than his teams

small sample size, but:

* Dyson Daniels led the NBA, among 'qualified' players, in steal rate at 4.2%...Thybulle had a rate of 5.1%
* Daniels led the NBA in steals/36 at 3.2...Thybulle was at 3.8
* Daniels led the NBA in deflections/36 at 6.2....Thybulle had 6.8
* last season, Caruso led the NBA in steal rate at 2.9%....Thybulle's rate was 3.8%
* last season, Thybulle led the NBA in steals/36 at 2.7

he's a very disruptive defender who gets his hands on a lot of passes and dribbles; likely more than anybody in the NBA

if you don't like his durability...ok..that's fair; he seems injury prone. But he is an elite defender. He's even started to register as a 3&D guy. Over the last 3 seasons he's shot over 36% on three's

I like the trade idea.

zzaj wrote:I will need at least 3 or 4 more centers for this trade to make sense for Portland.

Landale would be cut. He's strictly salary ballast in this trade scenario.

ThatBoyNick wrote:Perhaps we could get a 2nd or two out of it. Or perhaps keep whitmore or move him elsewhere and just take Thybulle into our MLE if Blazers are fine with just getting off of him.

Portland will not pay to move off Thybulle. He's one of my favorite players on the team.

Blazers are in need of a ruthless scorer, which is why I would be interested in a trade like this.

If Rockets are not wanting Thybulle-> would you take 2 seconds for Whitmore and Blazers can take him into a TPE?

tester551 wrote:I like the trade idea.

zzaj wrote:I will need at least 3 or 4 more centers for this trade to make sense for Portland.

Landale would be cut. He's strictly salary ballast in this trade scenario.

ThatBoyNick wrote:Perhaps we could get a 2nd or two out of it. Or perhaps keep whitmore or move him elsewhere and just take Thybulle into our MLE if Blazers are fine with just getting off of him.

Portland will not pay to move off Thybulle. He's one of my favorite players on the team.

Blazers are in need of a ruthless scorer, which is why I would be interested in a trade like this.

If Rockets are not wanting Thybulle-> would you take 2 seconds for Whitmore and Blazers can take him into a TPE?

Tester, I'm kidding...you know that.

The problem with needing a "ruthless scorer"...where does he play?

Based on Cronin's minute distribution since he's been GM, this is the starting lineup:

Jrue
Camara
Grant
Deni
Ayton

With two guards off the bench in Scoot and Sharpe who NEED major minutes.

Camara's best position is SF, Grant's best position is PF and Deni's best position is PF, but all will need time at SF in order to get all 3 of those players minutes.

Would Cam be a better fit than Murray? Probably so...but like Houston, I just don't see the minutes on the current Blazers to allow Cam to emerge.

tester551 wrote:I like the trade idea.

Portland will not pay to move off Thybulle. He's one of my favorite players on the team.

Blazers are in need of a ruthless scorer, which is why I would be interested in a trade like this.

If Rockets are not wanting Thybulle-> would you take 2 seconds for Whitmore and Blazers can take him into a TPE?

Personally I’d really hope we don’t trade Cam for 2nds and cap but it’s seemingly possible.

I wasn’t saying pay to get off of Thybulle but more so saying that if he’s neutral value on his contract (which him opting in could indicate) perhaps we could just absorb him into our MLE, or get a few 2nds IF sending Whitmore.

It’s a small value gap if there is one, I just don’t know A. How serious the team is on moving on from Cam, and B. How much focus Houston will have on getting a defender vs a floor spacer. If Hou doesn’t want to take a step back on defense in Dillons absence, I think Thybulle is a great option. If we’re focused on more spacing Thybulle obviously wouldn’t be a target.

zzaj wrote:

tester551 wrote:I like the trade idea.

zzaj wrote:I will need at least 3 or 4 more centers for this trade to make sense for Portland.

Landale would be cut. He's strictly salary ballast in this trade scenario.

ThatBoyNick wrote:Perhaps we could get a 2nd or two out of it. Or perhaps keep whitmore or move him elsewhere and just take Thybulle into our MLE if Blazers are fine with just getting off of him.

Portland will not pay to move off Thybulle. He's one of my favorite players on the team.

Blazers are in need of a ruthless scorer, which is why I would be interested in a trade like this.

If Rockets are not wanting Thybulle-> would you take 2 seconds for Whitmore and Blazers can take him into a TPE?

Tester, I'm kidding...you know that.

The problem with needing a "ruthless scorer"...where does he play?

Based on Cronin's minute distribution since he's been GM, this is the starting lineup:

Jrue
Camara
Grant
Deni
Ayton

With two guards off the bench in Scoot and Sharpe who NEED major minutes.

Camara's best position is SF, Grant's best position is PF and Deni's best position is PF, but all will need time at SF in order to get all 3 of those players minutes.

Would Cam be a better fit than Murray? Probably so...but like Houston, I just don't see the minutes on the current Blazers to allow Cam to emerge.

Sorry, Didn't catch your sarcasm...

IMO, Grant's best position is on IR. But when he does play - I prefer that he's a 3&D SF. He's not good enough on the boards to play PF (IMO). Because of that, it's imperative that he comes off the bench -> allowing Camara & Deni to start at their natural positions.

This opens up the SG spot for Shea & a backup SG/SF spot for Whitmore (especially if Thybulle is traded).