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nate33 wrote:I'm thinking there's a basis for a trade if it's a 3-way involving Denver. In this scenario, I'm assuming Valanciunas is indeed going to Greece, leaving Denver with a hole at center.

If Denver is willing to absorb Kelly Olynyk into their MLE, the mechanics of the trade can work.

Washington trades: Corey Kispert ($14M) + Kelly Olynyk ($13.3M)
Washington receives: Jonathan Kuminga ($28M)

Golden State trades: Jonathan Kuminga (treated as $14M outgoing because of BYC issues)
Golden State receives: Corey Kispert ($14M)

Denver trades: MLE
Denver receives: Kelly Olynyk ($13.3M)

All that's left is to figure out the incentive. I'm thinking Denver doesn't really need any. Olynyk is a perfect replacement for JV and Denver will have the money since JV is effectively retiring so his cap hit comes off the books. If Denver wants, Washington can absorb a small contract as part of the trade. I just don't know if Denver is looking to dump someone like Picket or Tyson.

So how much extra (if any) does Washington need to send to Golden State? For starters, I think Washington needs to give back Golden State's top 20 protected 2030 pick that they currently own. After that, it's a game of poker. Washington won't want to give up any more, and Golden State is going to want more. I don't know who will blink first. It really depends if Golden State has a better offer on the table from some other team. I do think that getting Kispert and full control of their 2030 pick is better than keeping a disgruntled Kuminga on a qualifying offer.

daoneandonly wrote:Kispert is terrible, GSW is betetr off letting Kuminga walk

TGW wrote:

daoneandonly wrote:Kispert is terrible, GSW is betetr off letting Kuminga walk

Kispert is far from terrible...this is just a lazy "he's a Wizard, so he sucks" conclusion. Kispert is a career 47%/38%/80% shooter. Any team could use a guy like that. On a team with a real offensive system like the Warriors, he could easily be a 50/40/90 guy.

daoneandonly wrote:

TGW wrote:

daoneandonly wrote:Kispert is terrible, GSW is betetr off letting Kuminga walk

Kispert is far from terrible...this is just a lazy "he's a Wizard, so he sucks" conclusion. Kispert is a career 47%/38%/80% shooter. Any team could use a guy like that. On a team with a real offensive system like the Warriors, he could easily be a 50/40/90 guy.

Yea this is just a Wiz fan trying to sell a bad player. I have Monumental Network, watch every Wiz game as painful as it is, he's not good at all. He's essentially a worse version of Jason Kapono. And no im not just comparing the 2 because theyre white, its because they're so similar,

TGW wrote:

daoneandonly wrote:Kispert is terrible, GSW is betetr off letting Kuminga walk

Kispert is far from terrible...this is just a lazy "he's a Wizard, so he sucks" conclusion. Kispert is a career 47%/38%/80% shooter. Any team could use a guy like that. On a team with a real offensive system like the Warriors, he could easily be a 50/40/90 guy.

TGW wrote:

daoneandonly wrote:Kispert is terrible, GSW is betetr off letting Kuminga walk

Kispert is far from terrible...this is just a lazy "he's a Wizard, so he sucks" conclusion. Kispert is a career 47%/38%/80% shooter. Any team could use a guy like that. On a team with a real offensive system like the Warriors, he could easily be a 50/40/90 guy.

nate33 wrote:I'm not quite sure how much Kuminga's next contract is going to cost. If it's just barely over the MLE, a S&T of Kuminga for Kispert might make sense for both teams. Kispert would fit nicely in Golden State's system as a movement shooter who can attack a closeout with efficiency.

If Kuminga costs just more than the MLE than Kispert alone would be enough to make it work. If Kuminga costs up in the $22-27M range, than the Wizards could include Olynyk, who would also fit nicely in Golden State's system as a screen-setter and pick-and-pop guy. Olynyk's contract is expiring. Kispert's is $13M a year without raises for 3 years (4th year TO).

Not sure if this is enough incentive for Golden State. They may prefer to just let Kuminga walk.

nate33 wrote:Note, Marcus Smart and his $21.5M expiring contract could also be involved in this if Golden State prefers.

SA37 wrote:

nate33 wrote:I'm not quite sure how much Kuminga's next contract is going to cost. If it's just barely over the MLE, a S&T of Kuminga for Kispert might make sense for both teams. Kispert would fit nicely in Golden State's system as a movement shooter who can attack a closeout with efficiency.

If Kuminga costs just more than the MLE than Kispert alone would be enough to make it work. If Kuminga costs up in the $22-27M range, than the Wizards could include Olynyk, who would also fit nicely in Golden State's system as a screen-setter and pick-and-pop guy. Olynyk's contract is expiring. Kispert's is $13M a year without raises for 3 years (4th year TO).

Not sure if this is enough incentive for Golden State. They may prefer to just let Kuminga walk.

nate33 wrote:Note, Marcus Smart and his $21.5M expiring contract could also be involved in this if Golden State prefers.

I assume Golden St is going to re-sign GP II, which would make Marcus Smart unnecessary.

Olynyk and a top-10 protected 1st for Kuminga would seem like a fair trade to me.

nate33 wrote:

Spoiler:

SA37 wrote:

nate33 wrote:I'm not quite sure how much Kuminga's next contract is going to cost. If it's just barely over the MLE, a S&T of Kuminga for Kispert might make sense for both teams. Kispert would fit nicely in Golden State's system as a movement shooter who can attack a closeout with efficiency.

If Kuminga costs just more than the MLE than Kispert alone would be enough to make it work. If Kuminga costs up in the $22-27M range, than the Wizards could include Olynyk, who would also fit nicely in Golden State's system as a screen-setter and pick-and-pop guy. Olynyk's contract is expiring. Kispert's is $13M a year without raises for 3 years (4th year TO).

Not sure if this is enough incentive for Golden State. They may prefer to just let Kuminga walk.

nate33 wrote:Note, Marcus Smart and his $21.5M expiring contract could also be involved in this if Golden State prefers.

I assume Golden St is going to re-sign GP II, which would make Marcus Smart unnecessary.

Olynyk and a top-10 protected 1st for Kuminga would seem like a fair trade to me.

The Wizards aren't giving up a pick for Kuminga. Kuminga, at a full market rate salary, isn't worth a pick.

The Wizards are bargain-hunting here. If Golden State would rather just let him walk or match a RFA offer, that's cool. But if they don't want him and they'd rather have a half-decent vet in his place. the Wizards have a couple of players that might interest Golden State.

Texas Chuck wrote:

TGW wrote:

daoneandonly wrote:Kispert is terrible, GSW is betetr off letting Kuminga walk

Kispert is far from terrible...this is just a lazy "he's a Wizard, so he sucks" conclusion. Kispert is a career 47%/38%/80% shooter. Any team could use a guy like that. On a team with a real offensive system like the Warriors, he could easily be a 50/40/90 guy.

daone is a Wizards fan, or was for awhile, I think he's come back to Dallas though he hates everything Dallas does because they are Dallas so who knows.

He also calls all kinds of useful players on every team terrible.

To conclude its not remotely anti-Wizards sentiment.

Nate the Great wrote:

TGW wrote:

daoneandonly wrote:Kispert is terrible, GSW is betetr off letting Kuminga walk

Kispert is far from terrible...this is just a lazy "he's a Wizard, so he sucks" conclusion. Kispert is a career 47%/38%/80% shooter. Any team could use a guy like that. On a team with a real offensive system like the Warriors, he could easily be a 50/40/90 guy.

No, this is a “we’ve seen him play and know he sucks” conclusion. His defense is horrible and the rest of his game is mediocre at best. They bill him as a three-point specialist, but his 3pt% last season was about league average, so he doesn’t even do that well.

We get it, everyone assumes that the Warriors are vulnerable, and you’re all fighting to out-lowball each other for Kuminga. But the Warriors can just cut Kuminga. They don’t have to take back the guys you want to get rid of.

daoneandonly wrote:

Texas Chuck wrote:

TGW wrote:
Kispert is far from terrible...this is just a lazy "he's a Wizard, so he sucks" conclusion. Kispert is a career 47%/38%/80% shooter. Any team could use a guy like that. On a team with a real offensive system like the Warriors, he could easily be a 50/40/90 guy.

daone is a Wizards fan, or was for awhile, I think he's come back to Dallas though he hates everything Dallas does because they are Dallas so who knows.

He also calls all kinds of useful players on every team terrible.

To conclude its not remotely anti-Wizards sentiment.

My Wiz Fandom was temporarily insanity after my fave team traded their franchise player for the most expensive softest player in NBA history. But even if not coming back to my lifelong Dallas team, not going to support a city whose people pistol whipped my dad, mugged my aunt, jumped my friends after bible study, and attempted to car Jack me twice. I e DC

About tired of your condescending tone when I've always been respectful to you, so feel free to put me on ignore if I annoy you so much. We don't need to engage any longer

SA37 wrote:

nate33 wrote:

Spoiler:

SA37 wrote:


I assume Golden St is going to re-sign GP II, which would make Marcus Smart unnecessary.

Olynyk and a top-10 protected 1st for Kuminga would seem like a fair trade to me.

The Wizards aren't giving up a pick for Kuminga. Kuminga, at a full market rate salary, isn't worth a pick.

The Wizards are bargain-hunting here. If Golden State would rather just let him walk or match a RFA offer, that's cool. But if they don't want him and they'd rather have a half-decent vet in his place. the Wizards have a couple of players that might interest Golden State.

A guy who is "worth" giving a ~$100M deal is not worth a 1st round pick? I don't follow that logic at all.

nate33 wrote:

SA37 wrote:

nate33 wrote:

Spoiler:

The Wizards aren't giving up a pick for Kuminga. Kuminga, at a full market rate salary, isn't worth a pick.

The Wizards are bargain-hunting here. If Golden State would rather just let him walk or match a RFA offer, that's cool. But if they don't want him and they'd rather have a half-decent vet in his place. the Wizards have a couple of players that might interest Golden State.

A guy who is "worth" giving a ~$100M deal is not worth a 1st round pick? I don't follow that logic at all.

Generally speaking, when guys sign open-market free agents, the contracts, by definition, are fair market value contracts. They neither have positive nor negative value. You rarely can S&T a guy for a pick, unless the pick is compensation for the bad contract you are taking back.

SA37 wrote:

nate33 wrote:

SA37 wrote:
A guy who is "worth" giving a ~$100M deal is not worth a 1st round pick? I don't follow that logic at all.

Generally speaking, when guys sign open-market free agents, the contracts, by definition, are fair market value contracts. They neither have positive nor negative value. You rarely can S&T a guy for a pick, unless the pick is compensation for the bad contract you are taking back.

The only "market" valuing Kuminga at $30+M a season is his agent and his mom

If Washington decides that is worth paying for whatever reason, they will have to negotiate a trade with Golden St. Golden St is under no obligation to give away Kuminga or to "compensate" Washington for being willing to give Kuminga a contract.

If Washington wants Kuminga at whatever the price is then, by definition, it's not a bad contract to Washington, unless the argument is Washington just feels like signing a bad contract to their detriment for ostensibly sadistic reasons.

Without cap space, Washington has to give to get. IMO, Olynyk is not even close to enough compensation. Golden State is better off keeping Kuminga. Is Washington better off with a (random) draft pick than Kuminga? That's something for Washington to evaluate.

nate33 wrote:

SA37 wrote:

nate33 wrote:Generally speaking, when guys sign open-market free agents, the contracts, by definition, are fair market value contracts. They neither have positive nor negative value. You rarely can S&T a guy for a pick, unless the pick is compensation for the bad contract you are taking back.

The only "market" valuing Kuminga at $30+M a season is his agent and his mom

If Washington decides that is worth paying for whatever reason, they will have to negotiate a trade with Golden St. Golden St is under no obligation to give away Kuminga or to "compensate" Washington for being willing to give Kuminga a contract.

If Washington wants Kuminga at whatever the price is then, by definition, it's not a bad contract to Washington, unless the argument is Washington just feels like signing a bad contract to their detriment for ostensibly sadistic reasons.

Without cap space, Washington has to give to get. IMO, Olynyk is not even close to enough compensation. Golden State is better off keeping Kuminga. Is Washington better off with a (random) draft pick than Kuminga? That's something for Washington to evaluate.

That's cool. Keep him then. Or let him walk.

The premise of this trade is that GS doesn't want to pay him whatever salary Brooklyn is willing to pay, so Golden State is instead looking to come away with a useful asset by sign-and-trading him to Washington for one or more of their mediocre-but-useful vets. If Golden State would rather match the Nets' offer, or let him walk, that's fine.

nate33 wrote:

SA37 wrote:

nate33 wrote:I'm not quite sure how much Kuminga's next contract is going to cost. If it's just barely over the MLE, a S&T of Kuminga for Kispert might make sense for both teams. Kispert would fit nicely in Golden State's system as a movement shooter who can attack a closeout with efficiency.

If Kuminga costs just more than the MLE than Kispert alone would be enough to make it work. If Kuminga costs up in the $22-27M range, than the Wizards could include Olynyk, who would also fit nicely in Golden State's system as a screen-setter and pick-and-pop guy. Olynyk's contract is expiring. Kispert's is $13M a year without raises for 3 years (4th year TO).

Not sure if this is enough incentive for Golden State. They may prefer to just let Kuminga walk.

nate33 wrote:Note, Marcus Smart and his $21.5M expiring contract could also be involved in this if Golden State prefers.

I assume Golden St is going to re-sign GP II, which would make Marcus Smart unnecessary.

Olynyk and a top-10 protected 1st for Kuminga would seem like a fair trade to me.

The Wizards aren't giving up a pick for Kuminga. Kuminga, at a full market rate salary, isn't worth a pick.

The Wizards are bargain-hunting here. If Golden State would rather just let him walk or match a RFA offer, that's cool. But if they don't want him and they'd rather have a half-decent vet in his place. the Wizards have a couple of players that might interest Golden State.