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Curious what kind of package folks feel like the Pistons would need to put together to upgrade Harris to Markannen. I'm not the biggest Lauri fan so have a poor sense for his value, but think he'd be a great frontcourt fit in that Harris spot. So what are we thinking Detroit would have to pay?

Harris + Stewart + 2026 FRP (DET, unprotected) + 2028 FRP (DET, top-4 protected for two years). Harris squeaks into the Collins TPE, Jazz generate a new $31.4MM TPE.

Send Harris to Miami and Rozier to Utah with some other asset

Miami gets an easy win-now upgrade cheaply

I am not a Holland fan, but I think he or Ausar (who Detroit will not and should not trade) need to be coming back. Otherwise it is just two likely late picks. I would have minimal interest in Ivey or Duren since we do not need more players at their positions unless there is clear star upside.

babyjax13 wrote:I am not a Holland fan, but I think he or Ausar (who Detroit will not and should not trade) need to be coming back. Otherwise it is just two likely late picks. I would have minimal interest in Ivey or Duren since we do not need more players at their positions unless there is clear star upside.

You’re spot on about Ausar. And I think Holland will be starter level someday.

What would you think about 3 unprotected FRPs (26, 28, 30) and Harris? Since we have the Schroeder TPE I don’t think we need to throw in Stewart (who I like as a great teammate and backup C).

theBigLip wrote:

babyjax13 wrote:I am not a Holland fan, but I think he or Ausar (who Detroit will not and should not trade) need to be coming back. Otherwise it is just two likely late picks. I would have minimal interest in Ivey or Duren since we do not need more players at their positions unless there is clear star upside.

You’re spot on about Ausar. And I think Holland will be starter level someday.

What would you think about 3 unprotected FRPs (26, 28, 30) and Harris? Since we have the Schroeder TPE I don’t think we need to throw in Stewart (who I like as a great teammate and backup C).

I dont think we would want Stewart anyway. For three picks I would say yes if we can't find something better (something with a clear centerpiece).

theBigLip wrote:

babyjax13 wrote:I am not a Holland fan, but I think he or Ausar (who Detroit will not and should not trade) need to be coming back. Otherwise it is just two likely late picks. I would have minimal interest in Ivey or Duren since we do not need more players at their positions unless there is clear star upside.

You’re spot on about Ausar. And I think Holland will be starter level someday.

What would you think about 3 unprotected FRPs (26, 28, 30) and Harris? Since we have the Schroeder TPE I don’t think we need to throw in Stewart (who I like as a great teammate and backup C).

A TPE can't be combined with a player to acquire a higher priced player though, right?

SkyHook wrote:

theBigLip wrote:

babyjax13 wrote:I am not a Holland fan, but I think he or Ausar (who Detroit will not and should not trade) need to be coming back. Otherwise it is just two likely late picks. I would have minimal interest in Ivey or Duren since we do not need more players at their positions unless there is clear star upside.

You’re spot on about Ausar. And I think Holland will be starter level someday.

What would you think about 3 unprotected FRPs (26, 28, 30) and Harris? Since we have the Schroeder TPE I don’t think we need to throw in Stewart (who I like as a great teammate and backup C).

A TPE can't be combined with a player to acquire a higher priced player though, right?

You are correct, although a 3rd team could help facilitate. Per my buddy ChatGTP:

No — you cannot combine a traded player exception (TPE) with another player’s salary to make a trade in the NBA.

Here’s why:
• A TPE is essentially a “credit” created when you trade a player and take back less salary than you sent out. You can use it to acquire a single player (or multiple players separately) whose salary fits within the exception.
• Under the CBA rules, a TPE is treated separately from other salary matching. You can’t “stack” it with other player salaries or exceptions to bring in a bigger contract.

So if you have:
• TPE = $10M
• Player A’s salary = $8M

You cannot combine them to trade for a player making $18M. You could only:
✅ Use the TPE on its own to absorb a player making up to $10M.
✅ Trade Player A separately to match salaries for someone making ~$8M (or within the allowed salary matching rules).

If you want to bring in a larger contract, you’d have to structure the deal so it complies with the salary matching rules (e.g., make two separate trades).

theBigLip wrote:

SkyHook wrote:

theBigLip wrote:
You’re spot on about Ausar. And I think Holland will be starter level someday.

What would you think about 3 unprotected FRPs (26, 28, 30) and Harris? Since we have the Schroeder TPE I don’t think we need to throw in Stewart (who I like as a great teammate and backup C).

A TPE can't be combined with a player to acquire a higher priced player though, right?

You are correct, although a 3rd team could help facilitate. Per my buddy:

No — you cannot combine a traded player exception (TPE) with another player’s salary to make a trade in the NBA.

Here’s why:
• A TPE is essentially a “credit” created when you trade a player and take back less salary than you sent out. You can use it to acquire a single player (or multiple players separately) whose salary fits within the exception.
• Under the CBA rules, a TPE is treated separately from other salary matching. You can’t “stack” it with other player salaries or exceptions to bring in a bigger contract.

So if you have:
• TPE = $10M
• Player A’s salary = $8M

You cannot combine them to trade for a player making $18M. You could only:
✅ Use the TPE on its own to absorb a player making up to $10M.
✅ Trade Player A separately to match salaries for someone making ~$8M (or within the allowed salary matching rules).

If you want to bring in a larger contract, you’d have to structure the deal so it complies with the salary matching rules (e.g., make two separate trades).

if you mean to acquire another player to combine that player's salary with harris, you have to wait a few months

babyjax13 wrote:

theBigLip wrote:

babyjax13 wrote:I am not a Holland fan, but I think he or Ausar (who Detroit will not and should not trade) need to be coming back. Otherwise it is just two likely late picks. I would have minimal interest in Ivey or Duren since we do not need more players at their positions unless there is clear star upside.

You’re spot on about Ausar. And I think Holland will be starter level someday.

What would you think about 3 unprotected FRPs (26, 28, 30) and Harris? Since we have the Schroeder TPE I don’t think we need to throw in Stewart (who I like as a great teammate and backup C).

I dont think we would want Stewart anyway. For three picks I would say yes if we can't find something better (something with a clear centerpiece).

Harris and 3 picks might be fair value -- but I think it is too soon

I think Detroit is going to rise and fall based on the development of the youngsters: Cade, but also Ivey/Ausar/Duren/Holland/Stewart. If 3 or more of these youngsters take another leap, we have a core, and trading picks for a PF who fits well on paper makes sense. However, if too many of the youngsters fail to develop, then we will regret tying up so much in Markkhanen

theBigLip wrote:

SkyHook wrote:

theBigLip wrote:
You’re spot on about Ausar. And I think Holland will be starter level someday.

What would you think about 3 unprotected FRPs (26, 28, 30) and Harris? Since we have the Schroeder TPE I don’t think we need to throw in Stewart (who I like as a great teammate and backup C).

A TPE can't be combined with a player to acquire a higher priced player though, right?

You are correct, although a 3rd team could help facilitate. Per my buddy ChatGTP:

No — you cannot combine a traded player exception (TPE) with another player’s salary to make a trade in the NBA.

Here’s why:
• A TPE is essentially a “credit” created when you trade a player and take back less salary than you sent out. You can use it to acquire a single player (or multiple players separately) whose salary fits within the exception.
• Under the CBA rules, a TPE is treated separately from other salary matching. You can’t “stack” it with other player salaries or exceptions to bring in a bigger contract.

So if you have:
• TPE = $10M
• Player A’s salary = $8M

You cannot combine them to trade for a player making $18M. You could only:
✅ Use the TPE on its own to absorb a player making up to $10M.
✅ Trade Player A separately to match salaries for someone making ~$8M (or within the allowed salary matching rules).

If you want to bring in a larger contract, you’d have to structure the deal so it complies with the salary matching rules (e.g., make two separate trades).

Soooo... take on a player from a third team using the TPE and wait the 60 days required to aggregate them with Harris in another trade?

I think Detroit is a good spot for Markky.
Can expand it a little.
Indy gets Kessler.
Miami gets Tobias.
Detroit gets Markky.
Utah gets Furphy, BSheppard, Rozier, stew (maybe spin stew to Orl for kcp or other and several seconds or to sac), picks.
MIA and Indy could send several seconds or future protected first.
Detroit sends a couple of firsts.

Xman wrote:I think Detroit is a good spot for Markky.
Can expand it a little.
Indy gets Kessler.
Miami gets Tobias.
Detroit gets Markky.
Utah gets Furphy, BSheppard, Rozier, stew (maybe spin stew to Orl for kcp or other and several seconds or to sac), picks.
MIA and Indy could send several seconds or future protected first.
Detroit sends a couple of firsts.

Not enough for Utah. Utah would need five firsts coming back since they are not getting any decent prospects.

I think the Bane deal is a reasonable baseline.

AingesBurner wrote:

Xman wrote:I think Detroit is a good spot for Markky.
Can expand it a little.
Indy gets Kessler.
Miami gets Tobias.
Detroit gets Markky.
Utah gets Furphy, BSheppard, Rozier, stew (maybe spin stew to Orl for kcp or other and several seconds or to sac), picks.
MIA and Indy could send several seconds or future protected first.
Detroit sends a couple of firsts.

Not enough for Utah. Utah would need five firsts coming back since they are not getting any decent prospects.

Five firsts? Good luck w that.

jazzfan1971 wrote:I think the Bane deal is a reasonable baseline.

Why? Markkanen makes quite a bit more, is a year older and doesnt offer the playmaking banes does. Also had a much worse year last year. I have him worth around 1/2 of banes package

As long as the actual Ainges are thinking like the last two posts (Aingesburner, jazzfan… sorry, this ended up taking a while) in this thread, there will be no Markkanen deal to anyone.

I’m a Lauri fan. I completely understand the context of his last season, getting healthy-rested and playing on a tanking team. I know he’s capable of numbers similar to two years ago, maybe even three years ago (All-Star) on a real roster with a glaring need for a second banana and a PF. And yes, Detroit fits that description perfectly. So please don’t repeat all that stuff in a reply, because I agree with it and am aware of it.

The pricing issues are these:

1) He’s under contract for 4/198 guaranteed. He needs to be the player from two years ago to be worth that, and he needs to play 75 games.
2) Markkanen has NEVER played 75 games. I know Utah did some shenanigans last year, but Lauri’s career high is 68 games in eight NBA seasons.
3) There aren’t a bunch of realistic trade options out there. The market sets the price.

Utah needs to tank again and everyone knows it. Ace needs starter minutes and will take starter shots. Markkanen can theoretically rehab some of his value this season, but it’ll go against the needed tank. If they repeat last year, they’ll depress his value even further. He needs to be moved, and Detroit and everyone else knows this.

Memphis didn’t need to trade Bane. Orlando needed shooting so insanely badly that they were willing to overpay and bring in the guy they wanted. Memphis was in the position of negotiating power and used it. Utah is absolutely NOT in that position with Detroit or anyone else. Tobias Harris is a perfectly solid option in Detroit next year. He’s the locker room Unc, has a well-rounded game, and played well in the playoffs. The Pistons have another year to decide their direction at PF if necessary.

Five firsts is absolutely never going to happen from anyone. Three unprotected firsts is extremely unlikely as well, at least from Detroit. For all the accolades and attention the team got from tripling their win total, it was still just 44 wins, 6th in the (L)east, and an entertaining first round exit. One major injury to Cade (who already had one) and this is trading a lottery pick next year.

Detroit’s realistic offer is Harris, 27 FRP (unprotected), 28 swap (likely nothing), and 29 FRP (maybe unprotected, maybe top 4). We’d need to do some more to account for the extra 20 mil in salary incoming, but it absolutely will not be Stewart (our presence) or Holland (our GM’s first pick). It could be Ivey, but you’re losing one of the firsts that way.

And even with that change to an actual realistic price for Lauri, the odds are that Langdon is still going to pass. We need another development year and to decide the futures of Ivey and Duren on the team. We need to see if Ausar and Holland improve offensively. And, let’s face it, even in the weak East next year, are we really favorites against Cleveland, New York or perhaps Orlando or Atlanta with Markkanen instead of Harris? If the answer is anything less than “possibly”, which I think it is, there’s no reason to take this risk. And no matter how highly I think of Markkanen (very, actually), it’s still a risk financially, a risk in terms of his durability, and a risk in terms of the cost to get him.

Lauri’s value has absolutely plummeted. $46m for 19/6 with suspect D and lots of games misses is a low value contract. They idea that he’s bringing back young prospects and 2-3 picks is unrealistic at this point. That’s his value 2 years ago, not now. Utah probably won’t trade him because they don’t seem to have accepted the current reality.

jazzfan1971 wrote:I think the Bane deal is a reasonable baseline.

Don't agree with that at all....like radically so.

1.) Bane is better than Lauri
2.) Orlando overpaid for Bane, because I don't think Memphis wanted to trade him, but ended up taking the deal because it solved their JJJ problem.
3.) Bane is younger than Lauri
4.) Bane has shown to be a contributor on a winning team, while Lauri has not.
5.) Bane's contract is reasonable, Lauri's is not

Frankly, I don't know why any team serious about winning would want Lauri. He looks like the PF version of Zach Lavine to me.

3 unprotected for what at best is a market contract, probably overpaid?

Good way to get fired...