RealGM

PHX trades: 2027 MIN/CLE/UTA 1st (worst), filler as needed
UTA trades: Isaiah Collier or Keyonte George

Phoenix still has no point guard. Collier and Keyonte both have major warts, but they are better than what the Suns have and they are young. Utah has too many small guards still, so they move one and get a future pick. I'm not sure who is pushing for which guard to be in (i.e., if either team has a strong preference), but I thought this might be something?

I would prefer the open roster spot over either if I was Phoenix

The Suns would still need a PG after this trade.

Suns can't trade this pick, they traded their 26 1st.

Personally I'd still hang on to Collier over a worst-of FRP, but I'd let George go for a moderately protected SRP.

If a clearly rebuilding team like Utah is willing to give up a guy they just spent a first-round pick on for a low-upside asset like this, I'd see that as a huge red flag.

I think you could probably find a center desperate team and make..

Richards to “Charlotte/NOP/GSW”
George to Phoenix
1-2 seconds and small salary from “third team” to Utah

Collier I think Utah should hold on to for another year just in case.

gswhoops wrote:If a clearly rebuilding team like Utah is willing to give up a guy they just spent a first-round pick on for a low-upside asset like this, I'd see that as a huge red flag.

I mean, both guys are really bad and the Jazz just picked another guy 18th overall to replace Keyonte explicitly.

I think everyone knows the Jazz don't like Collier or Keyonte and don't value them, there's no more signal to send.

gswhoops wrote:If a clearly rebuilding team like Utah is willing to give up a guy they just spent a first-round pick on for a low-upside asset like this, I'd see that as a huge red flag.

Oh it is, but both are at least serviceable even if Collier can't shoot and Keyonte can't defend.

jayjaysee wrote:I think you could probably find a center desperate team and make..

Richards to “Charlotte/NOP/GSW”
George to Phoenix
1-2 seconds and small salary from “third team” to Utah

Collier I think Utah should hold on to for another year just in case.

This probably makes more sense.

Neither is worth a FRP. Keyonte is another one of those small combo guard chucker types who doesn't defend.

I have more confidence in Collier. At least he can play PG but he's only a bench guard if he can't learn to shoot.

Utah would be better off to keep both and see if one of them can expand their game. Their main goal is to get a top 3 pick in next year's draft so neither will hurt them.

babyjax13 wrote:

gswhoops wrote:If a clearly rebuilding team like Utah is willing to give up a guy they just spent a first-round pick on for a low-upside asset like this, I'd see that as a huge red flag.

Oh it is, but both are at least serviceable even if Collier can't shoot and Keyonte can't defend.

I think if I'm Phoenix this feels like trying to have your cake and eat it too, and ending up with neither. I guess if they see Collier as a potential long-term backcourt mate to Booker it makes some sense as a means to start collecting pieces around Booker - Dunn, Williams/Maluach, Collier at least starts to look like something coherent if you squint

jayjaysee wrote:I think you could probably find a center desperate team and make..

Richards to “Charlotte/NOP/GSW”
George to Phoenix
1-2 seconds and small salary from “third team” to Utah

Collier I think Utah should hold on to for another year just in case.

we are center desperate. but not THAT desperate

trust me, Richards isn't the center we're going to miss

If Utah was ready to move off Keynote or Collier. And if Phoenix needs a center maybe Nurc can be attached as another asset to make a deal happen.

Not sure I want to do this deal as a Jazz fan. But moving off of players to find the right guard does make sense. I would rather keep Keynote and ship Collier. Clayton is more a PG than either and I see Keynote as a sixth man more than Collier and Clayton.

I must be higher on Keyonte than some others. I still see his career arc looking like Tyler Herro's. I think the Jazz will likely give him his 2nd contract. Collier, however, is a change-of-pace backup unless his outside shooting takes a major turn.

Catchall wrote:I must be higher on Keyonte than some others. I still see his career arc looking like Tyler Herro's. I think the Jazz will likely give him his 2nd contract. Collier, however, is a change-of-pace backup unless his outside shooting takes a major turn.

Keyonte rates out as the worst defensive player in the league over the past two seasons. He's also not a very efficient player on the offensive end with some poor shot selection. I personally don't think he gets anywhere near a Herro type career arc. With that said many Heat fans dislike Herro for getting targeted defensively or not being able to set up his teammates in the playoffs. Hopefully Jazz have learned their lesson and aren't giving this archetype a big 2nd contract.

mg wrote:

Catchall wrote:I must be higher on Keyonte than some others. I still see his career arc looking like Tyler Herro's. I think the Jazz will likely give him his 2nd contract. Collier, however, is a change-of-pace backup unless his outside shooting takes a major turn.

Keyonte rates out as the worst defensive player in the league over the past two seasons. He's also not a very efficient player on the offensive end with some poor shot selection. I personally don't think he gets anywhere near a Herro type career arc. With that said many Heat fans dislike Herro for getting targeted defensively or not being able to set up his teammates in the playoffs. Hopefully Jazz have learned their lesson and aren't giving this archetype a big 2nd contract.

Herro is fine, but he's far from great. This was his first year — his sixth in the league — when he finally surpassed league average eFG and TS percentages and he is still a liability on defense. That said, George is abysmal on both ends of the floor. Reaching even Herro's level of slightly above mediocre is a stretch. I expect the Jazz to pick up his fourth year option, but unless there's a big upswing in his BBIQ, efficiency, and defensive effort I wouldn't be surprised if he isn't even tendered a QO.

SkyHook wrote:

mg wrote:

Catchall wrote:I must be higher on Keyonte than some others. I still see his career arc looking like Tyler Herro's. I think the Jazz will likely give him his 2nd contract. Collier, however, is a change-of-pace backup unless his outside shooting takes a major turn.

Keyonte rates out as the worst defensive player in the league over the past two seasons. He's also not a very efficient player on the offensive end with some poor shot selection. I personally don't think he gets anywhere near a Herro type career arc. With that said many Heat fans dislike Herro for getting targeted defensively or not being able to set up his teammates in the playoffs. Hopefully Jazz have learned their lesson and aren't giving this archetype a big 2nd contract.

Herro is fine, but he's far from great. This was his first year — his sixth in the league — when he finally surpassed league average eFG and TS percentages and he is still a liability on defense. That said, George is abysmal on both ends of the floor. Reaching even Herro's level of slightly above mediocre is a stretch. I expect the Jazz to pick up his fourth year option, but unless there's a big upswing in his BBIQ, efficiency, and defensive effort I wouldn't be surprised if he isn't even tendered a QO.

Agreed.

Keyonte might be the worst player of the worst archetype in the league right now. If he hustled on defense, were more efficient, or had better PG ability he would be given alot more rope. He's now entering his 3rd season so the time left on the rookie scale deal is running down. Maybe we will all be pleasantly surprised but the fact the Jazz traded up for Clayton Jr is possibly a direct correlation to how they feel about Keyonte.

mg wrote:

SkyHook wrote:

mg wrote:
Keyonte rates out as the worst defensive player in the league over the past two seasons. He's also not a very efficient player on the offensive end with some poor shot selection. I personally don't think he gets anywhere near a Herro type career arc. With that said many Heat fans dislike Herro for getting targeted defensively or not being able to set up his teammates in the playoffs. Hopefully Jazz have learned their lesson and aren't giving this archetype a big 2nd contract.

Herro is fine, but he's far from great. This was his first year — his sixth in the league — when he finally surpassed league average eFG and TS percentages and he is still a liability on defense. That said, George is abysmal on both ends of the floor. Reaching even Herro's level of slightly above mediocre is a stretch. I expect the Jazz to pick up his fourth year option, but unless there's a big upswing in his BBIQ, efficiency, and defensive effort I wouldn't be surprised if he isn't even tendered a QO.

Agreed.

Keyonte might be the worst player of the worst archetype in the league right now. If he hustled on defense, were more efficient, or had better PG ability he would be given alot more rope. He's now entering his 3rd season so the time left on the rookie scale deal is running down. Maybe we will all be pleasantly surprised but the fact the Jazz traded up for Clayton Jr is possibly a direct correlation to how they feel about Keyonte.

Yeah I kinda get the vibe that Keyonte's destiny is to bounce around the league on vet mins for a couple years and then end up as a star in the Euroleague

SkyHook wrote:

mg wrote:

Catchall wrote:I must be higher on Keyonte than some others. I still see his career arc looking like Tyler Herro's. I think the Jazz will likely give him his 2nd contract. Collier, however, is a change-of-pace backup unless his outside shooting takes a major turn.

Keyonte rates out as the worst defensive player in the league over the past two seasons. He's also not a very efficient player on the offensive end with some poor shot selection. I personally don't think he gets anywhere near a Herro type career arc. With that said many Heat fans dislike Herro for getting targeted defensively or not being able to set up his teammates in the playoffs. Hopefully Jazz have learned their lesson and aren't giving this archetype a big 2nd contract.

Herro is fine, but he's far from great. This was his first year — his sixth in the league — when he finally surpassed league average eFG and TS percentages and he is still a liability on defense. That said, George is abysmal on both ends of the floor. Reaching even Herro's level of slightly above mediocre is a stretch. I expect the Jazz to pick up his fourth year option, but unless there's a big upswing in his BBIQ, efficiency, and defensive effort I wouldn't be surprised if he isn't even tendered a QO.

Keyonte's efficiency improves markedly when his usage and shot selection are reigned in. His attitude towards defense has also been affected by the fact that the Jazz were intentionally throwing games and using bad defense to do it. See what his 3rd year looks like.