RealGM

Here's the thinking:

- Detroit want to take a step forward, and they clearly need another scorer/creator, ideally at the Forward spots.
- Toronto is in no mans land, and they should accumulate youth + assets rather than being playoff roadkill.
- Sacramento wants to make the playoffs (idk why), and they want a PF, and clear their backcourt glut.


Pistons get: Brandon Ingram, 2026 TOR 2nd (ie borderline allstar + mid 2nd)
Pistons give: Tobias Harris, Isiah Stewart, non lotto 2026 DET 1st (ie expiring PF + good backup big + non lotto 1st)

Toronto gets: Malik Monk, Isiah Stewart, 2026 DET 1st (ie 6MOY level guard + good backup big + non lotto 1st)
Toronto gives: Brandon Ingram, 2026 + 2027 TOR 2nd (ie borderline allstar + 2 2nd rounders)

Sacramento gets: Tobias Harris, 2027 TOR 2nd (ie expiring vet PF + mid 2nd)
Sacramento gives: Malik Monk (ie 6MOY level guard)



Pistons become a legit 2nd round (and maybe ECF) team. Toronto ducks the tax, gets younger, and hopes to make the play-in. Sacramento gets their vet PF and a minor asset for a guard they've been dangling.

I would think Toronto would just want to cut out the Kings. Beef stew, expiring and potentially solid stop gap combo forward and a pick is solid value for Bi.

Monk is a tough usage fit in a heavy guard rotation with Quick, RJ, Dick etc

MessiahUjiri wrote:Pistons become a legit 2nd round (and maybe ECF) team. Toronto ducks the tax, gets younger, and hopes to make the play-in. Sacramento gets their vet PF and a minor asset for a guard they've been dangling.

As the Pistons, I'd really not be interested in a guy who needs to operate heavily on the ball, plays poor defense, and is a lock to miss at least 25% of any given season. Nor would I be interested in his contract, which would carry a heavy opportunity cost.

Stewart also has a lot more value to the Pistons than an outside observer might think. And I'd rather keep that draft pick for a better trade later on.

Ingram is nowhere near as much an impact player as you're claiming.

eitanr wrote:I would think Toronto would just want to cut out the Kings. Beef stew, expiring and potentially solid stop gap combo forward and a pick is solid value for Bi.

Monk is a tough usage fit in a heavy guard rotation with Quick, RJ, Dick etc

Raptors have been known to be interested in Malik Monk - I think their FO still sees untapped potential in Monk.

The crowded backcourt is a fair point - I assume RJ gets traded at some point. He'll probably play SF minutes until then anyways, as that's a more natural position based on his driving style.

Crymson wrote:

MessiahUjiri wrote:Pistons become a legit 2nd round (and maybe ECF) team. Toronto ducks the tax, gets younger, and hopes to make the play-in. Sacramento gets their vet PF and a minor asset for a guard they've been dangling.

As the Pistons, I'd really not be interested in a guy who needs to operate heavily on the ball, plays poor defense, and is a lock to miss at least 25% of any given season. Nor would I be interested in his contract, which would carry a heavy opportunity cost.

Stewart also has a lot more value to the Pistons than an outside observer might think. And I'd rather keep that draft pick for a better trade later on.

Ingram is nowhere near as much an impact player as you're claiming.

I watch the Pistons a fair bit, since I have family in Michigan. The team clearly needs another guy who can create on the ball and score 20+. Cade needs help. Jaden Ivey + Caris Lavert as your #2/#3 option isn't good enough, and you're not trading any blue chips here.

A non lotto 1st + 2 backups for Ingram + 2nd is actually decent. I agree that Ingram has a record of missing games, which is why his value here is lower than his box score stats could otherwise fetch.

I understand you like Stewart as an emotional player + hard worker, but with Duren's growth, we're talking about a 6'7/6'8 backup C who plays <20MPG.

Crymson wrote:

MessiahUjiri wrote:Pistons become a legit 2nd round (and maybe ECF) team. Toronto ducks the tax, gets younger, and hopes to make the play-in. Sacramento gets their vet PF and a minor asset for a guard they've been dangling.

As the Pistons, I'd really not be interested in a guy who needs to operate heavily on the ball, plays poor defense, and is a lock to miss at least 25% of any given season. Nor would I be interested in his contract, which would carry a heavy opportunity cost.

Stewart also has a lot more value to the Pistons than an outside observer might think. And I'd rather keep that draft pick for a better trade later on.

Ingram is nowhere near as much an impact player as you're claiming.

I couldn’t agree more.

MessiahUjiri wrote:I watch the Pistons a fair bit, since I have family in Michigan.

I generally watch well upwards of 70 Pistons games per season.

The team clearly needs another guy who can create on the ball and score 20+. Cade needs help.

Yes, and they're hoping that that player is one of the other youth on the roster. They'll know more about that after this upcoming season, which will remain very focused upon development. The FO has been very clear to that effect in both its actions and its words.

Jaden Ivey + Caris Lavert as your #2/#3 option isn't good enough, and you're not trading any blue chips here.

A non lotto 1st + 2 backups for Ingram + 2nd is actually decent. I agree that Ingram has a record of missing games, which is why his value here is lower than his box score stats could otherwise fetch.

The Pistons don't need to settle for a blah trade. They've got open options for making a different, better trade if the youth don't pan out (or if they do).

I understand you like Stewart as an emotional player + hard worker, but with Duren's growth, we're talking about a 6'7/6'8 backup C who plays <20MPG.

What growth from Duren? The alleged improvement in his defense last season was actually an overnight reversion to his level of defensive play from his rookie season because he started trying again after well upwards of a year of phoning it in on defense. He was still awful (just less awful than the alternative) against any capable offense, including in the playoffs. He's got to make a huge leap in terms of his ability to process the game on defense, and pretty much nobody at his position who's this far behind in that area after three seasons does so. I hope he does, of course, but the odds are severely against him.

Stewart probably won't ever be starter material unless the Pistons find a strong roll man at another position, but he's an elite defender and the ultimate culture guy, and the fact that his defense is elite in both drop and switch will make him valuable in the postseason. He'll be the more valuable if he starts shooting threes again.

MessiahUjiri wrote:

eitanr wrote:I would think Toronto would just want to cut out the Kings. Beef stew, expiring and potentially solid stop gap combo forward and a pick is solid value for Bi.

Monk is a tough usage fit in a heavy guard rotation with Quick, RJ, Dick etc

Raptors have been known to be interested in Malik Monk - I think their FO still sees untapped potential in Monk.

The crowded backcourt is a fair point - I assume RJ gets traded at some point. He'll probably play SF minutes until then anyways, as that's a more natural position based on his driving style.

I actually think that Monk has more to offer than he has been allowed to provide. I really like his game and I wish he got more opportunity to be featured.

As far as the trade goes, I would do it as a kings fan because it is pretty clear that Scott Perry isn't a fan of Monk and he is likely on his way out either way, and I like Tobias Harris as a fit with our current roster and then he expires. I think having Harris and Keegan on the floor at the same time will really open everything up for Derozan and Sabonis. Plus Harris and Keegan would be able to switch really really well which would be a big advantage for the kings. I have always like Harris as the comp for what Keegan could develop into.

Trading Ingram for Stewart makes no sense after drafting Collin Murray Jones. Poeltl, Stewart, and CMJ would be a horrible big mam rotation to have next to Barnes. Ingram is flat out better than Monk. I don't get this at all for Toronto.

jbk1234 wrote:Trading Ingram for Stewart makes no sense after drafting Collin Murray Jones. Poeltl, Stewart, and CMJ would be a horrible big mam rotation to have next to Barnes. Ingram is flat out better than Monk. I don't get this at all for Toronto.

I agree on fit. In reality, even CMB and Scottie are a weird fit, as they play the same position. The way Toronto is setup right now, their best path for winning is to take the Houston Rockets approach from a few years back, as they're good good to tank....basically be opportunistic and hit a bunch of singles/doubles to keep getting younger and accumulate assets that can eventually be consolidated in a home run.

I assume >50% of the roster will get turned over in consolidation trades in the coming years. Until then, the top 10 lineup for this year is:

Quickley / Monk
Dick / Ja'Kobe
RJ / Agbaji
Scottie / CMB
Poeltl / Stew

With 2 1st rounders in the 2026 draft, all their future 1sts, a clean cap, and most players between 21-25 on tradeable contracts. I think you could build a star package out of this if someone were to become available.

TL prioritizes availability.

There’s no way he’s down to trade for Ingram at that salary point. A guy you’re lucky to get 60 games out of. I also question his fit with our roster on both ends of the floor.

MessiahUjiri wrote:

jbk1234 wrote:Trading Ingram for Stewart makes no sense after drafting Collin Murray Jones. Poeltl, Stewart, and CMJ would be a horrible big mam rotation to have next to Barnes. Ingram is flat out better than Monk. I don't get this at all for Toronto.

I agree on fit. In reality, even CMB and Scottie are a weird fit, as they play the same position. The way Toronto is setup right now, their best path for winning is to take the Houston Rockets approach from a few years back, as they're good good to tank....basically be opportunistic and hit a bunch of singles/doubles to keep getting younger and accumulate assets that can eventually be consolidated in a home run.

I assume >50% of the roster will get turned over in consolidation trades in the coming years. Until then, the top 10 lineup for this year is:

Quickley / Monk
Dick / Ja'Kobe
RJ / Agbaji
Scottie / CMB
Poeltl / Stew

With 2 1st rounders in the 2026 draft, all their future 1sts, a clean cap, and most players between 21-25 on tradeable contracts. I think you could build a star package out of this if someone were to become available.

If you're looking for a star, Barnes, Ingram, CMB, and your own picks are your best assets. Frankly, I'd have real concerns about what trading Ingram would do to the offense, and subsequently, the trade value of everyone else.

Midseason depending on how everyone looks, I could see Detroit doing this or something similar.

But I don’t see them paying this price before seeing Holland and Thompson.

And Det has the tax space to match without including Stewart or any of their new signing. Which I expect would be their preferred option at that point if their young forwards don’t look ready.

So is the pick lottoprotected or not? Im guessing yes since it keeps saying nonlotto first, but what it rolls over to? Still wouldnt do it as pistons, ingram is just too overpayed to get both 1st and stewart

Absolutely zero chance the Pistons do this. Ingram is a negative contract, no way this is the move to push chips in. Having overpaid players on your team is far more detrimental in today’s league

The entire league had the chance to big on him last year, and toronto was the only ones foolish enough to give up a pick. Nobody is giving up a good young player and a pick for him after he got overpaid.

If the raptors want to hit reset and just get out of his contract, they *might* be able to just dump him, but I wouldn't expect anything positive coming back.

The value changing hands here is reasonable — you’re rolling the dice on Ingram playing motivated basketball and stepping in as a legit #2 scoring option while being acceptable on defense and in terms of availability. If he does that, he’s not overpaid, although obviously still not a bargain by any means.

There are three issues with that, though, which make this trade very unlikely to get approved by Detroit:

1) The Pistons are trading their starting PF and best defensive big for one player that really can’t play PF. This move makes either Ingram, Ausar or Holland the starting PF. That’s too skinny, a waste of elite perimeter defense, and probably not ready as your options, and when combined with moving Paul Reed into the backup center spot, it’s crapping all over Detroit’s defense.

2) Tobias may be getting old, but he’s a very solid player. He provides just as much as Ingram overall when you factor in defense and availability. Yes, Ingram is younger and under contract for longer, but I don’t think Detroit sees Harris as a flight risk after this year. If we pay him appropriately and want him to stay, he probably will. Ideally he transitions into a backup role in a year or two once someone is ready.

3) Detroit isn’t going to trade Stewart. He’s great at his job defensively, but that’s not even the biggest reason. He’s Cade’s Oakley or whatever you want to call it, the team enforcer, culture guy, does-whatever-it-takes-guy, fiery spirit, longest tenured Pistons draftee on the roster. I’d be truly shocked if he’s dealt any time soon.

Detroit does need another quality initiator, no doubt about that. I don’t have as much faith in Ivey as some Pistons fans seem to, and I don’t see him as a viable backup PG when Cade sits. But even if I’m right, there’s still Holland and Ausar as creators-in-development that have a chance at it. 40 million for BI to take that role just doesn’t sound worth the assets, potential lost development, and defensive penalty.

I find it really hard to see Toronto trading for Ingram, Extending him and trading him before every suiting up

"Over the last five NBA seasons, opponents have shot just 46% on shots under five feet when Stewart is the primary defender, the best mark in the league."

I wouldn't move Stewart for Ingram straight up, let alone with Harris, and a 1st.

He is the heart and soul of the team on defense, and always has his teammates back. Teams change their whole approach to offense when he's on the floor. That is insane value.

He is not just a throw in, in any universe.

Monk and IQ on the same team <<<<