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Reason for this trade is Phoenix has a glut at the 2G position and could use some more size, and Dallas' shooting is straight garbage until Kyrie returns

Phoenix gets: Naji Marshall, Caleb Martin
Dallas gets: Grayson Allen, Oso Ighodaro

Dallas likely needs to include another person going back to Phoenix.

OP is more salary in. And I don’t think the min exem matters when talking about first apron restrictions?

But Dallas has a few bodies they could include.

The Suns shouldn't count either Caleb or Naji as more size. Neither give legit size, we have a glut of guys their size. I think the Suns will depend on Allen's shooting and like Oso more than adding small forwards.

Switch Ighodaro to Richards and you might have a deal.

hcsilla wrote:Switch Ighodaro to Richards and you might have a deal.

I mean maybe is a strong word. If the Suns meet expectations I expect Allen to be traded for draft capital and/or a young player. Naji is 28 this season. While he is a fine rotation wing he isn’t big enough to make a difference as a four and doesn’t have the upside to get there.

hcsilla wrote:Switch Ighodaro to Richards and you might have a deal.

Still no bro.

daoneandonly wrote:Reason for this trade is Phoenix has a glut at the 2G position and could use some more size, and Dallas' shooting is straight garbage until Kyrie returns

Phoenix gets: Naji Marshall, Caleb Martin
Dallas gets: Grayson Allen, Oso Ighodaro

Mavs are giving up too much value. They should look for a point guard elsewhere.

One_and_Done wrote:

daoneandonly wrote:Reason for this trade is Phoenix has a glut at the 2G position and could use some more size, and Dallas' shooting is straight garbage until Kyrie returns

Phoenix gets: Naji Marshall, Caleb Martin
Dallas gets: Grayson Allen, Oso Ighodaro

Mavs are giving up too much value. They should look for a point guard elsewhere.

??? Wow. So much wrong here.

From an outsider, Dallas needs to add a lot of value IMO.
Also in no way are either Grayson or Oso a PG.

tester551 wrote:

One_and_Done wrote:

daoneandonly wrote:Reason for this trade is Phoenix has a glut at the 2G position and could use some more size, and Dallas' shooting is straight garbage until Kyrie returns

Phoenix gets: Naji Marshall, Caleb Martin
Dallas gets: Grayson Allen, Oso Ighodaro

Mavs are giving up too much value. They should look for a point guard elsewhere.

??? Wow. So much wrong here.

From an outsider, Dallas needs to add a lot of value IMO.
Also in no way are either Grayson or Oso a PG.

Here's what I see; 2 bench players, a guy who doesn't matter, and Naji Marshall. Marshall has shown signs he can start, and at a premium position.

If he's regressed and can't reclaim that form, then things change a little, but he's the only guy in this trade who could potentially be a starter. Effectively he's the only player who matters.

Grayson isn't a point guard. I agree. That's why this isn't the move the Mavs should make to replace Kyrie.

One_and_Done wrote:

tester551 wrote:

One_and_Done wrote:Mavs are giving up too much value. They should look for a point guard elsewhere.

??? Wow. So much wrong here.

From an outsider, Dallas needs to add a lot of value IMO.
Also in no way are either Grayson or Oso a PG.

Here's what I see; 2 bench players, a guy who doesn't matter, and Naji Marshall. Marshall has shown signs he can start, and at a premium position.

If he's regressed and can't reclaim that form, then things change a little, but he's the only guy in this trade who could potentially be a starter. Effectively he's the only player who matters.

Grayson isn't a point guard. I agree. That's why this isn't the move the Mavs should make to replace Kyrie.

What makes Marshall so much more valuable than Allen exactly? Why is Marshall potentially a starter and not Allen? In five seasons Marshall has shot over 35% once and never of significant volume. Why don’t you consider him a broken player? You got me confused.

jredsaz wrote:

One_and_Done wrote:

tester551 wrote:??? Wow. So much wrong here.

From an outsider, Dallas needs to add a lot of value IMO.
Also in no way are either Grayson or Oso a PG.

Here's what I see; 2 bench players, a guy who doesn't matter, and Naji Marshall. Marshall has shown signs he can start, and at a premium position.

If he's regressed and can't reclaim that form, then things change a little, but he's the only guy in this trade who could potentially be a starter. Effectively he's the only player who matters.

Grayson isn't a point guard. I agree. That's why this isn't the move the Mavs should make to replace Kyrie.

What makes Marshall so much more valuable than Allen exactly? Why is Marshall potentially a starter and not Allen? In five seasons Marshall has shot over 35% once and never of significant volume. Why don’t you consider him a broken player? You got me confused.

The whole reason Dallas acquired Naji was because he looked like he might be able to play as a starting 3&D wing. Their plan, before the Luka fiasco, and ridiculousKlay signing, was to replace Jones Jnr (their previous starter) with him. 3&D wings with size are a useful starting archetype. Shooting 34-35% from 3 from your small forward is fine.

Grayson is an undersized shooting guard who is bad on D, other than occasionally cheap shotting ppl with 'hustle' plays. He is not a starter on a good team. His inability to be your point guard/offensive orchestrator, means his offensive abilities aren't enough to offset his defensive weakness. That's why this player type is not valued highly, and tends to come off the bench. Just ask Malik Monk and Cam Thomas.

Pretty sure PHX prefers Allen’s shooting.

One_and_Done wrote:

jredsaz wrote:

One_and_Done wrote:Here's what I see; 2 bench players, a guy who doesn't matter, and Naji Marshall. Marshall has shown signs he can start, and at a premium position.

If he's regressed and can't reclaim that form, then things change a little, but he's the only guy in this trade who could potentially be a starter. Effectively he's the only player who matters.

Grayson isn't a point guard. I agree. That's why this isn't the move the Mavs should make to replace Kyrie.

What makes Marshall so much more valuable than Allen exactly? Why is Marshall potentially a starter and not Allen? In five seasons Marshall has shot over 35% once and never of significant volume. Why don’t you consider him a broken player? You got me confused.

The whole reason Dallas acquired Naji was because he looked like he might be able to play as a starting 3&D wing. Their plan, before the Luka fiasco, and ridiculousKlay signing, was to replace Jones Jnr (their previous starter) with him. 3&D wings with size are a useful starting archetype. Shooting 34-35% from 3 from your small forward is fine.

Grayson is an undersized shooting guard who is bad on D, other than occasionally cheap shotting ppl with 'hustle' plays. He is not a starter on a good team. His inability to be your point guard/offensive orchestrator, means his offensive abilities aren't enough to offset his defensive weakness. That's why this player type is not valued highly, and tends to come off the bench. Just ask Malik Monk and Cam Thomas.

This is all just conjecture. Marshall qualifies as a broken player according to your own metrics. Five seasons, still can’t shoot. Allen is one of the best shooters in the NBA. According to cleaning the glass, Allen has had a positive impact on winning three out of the last four seasons and been a plus defender two out of the last four. Naji did either just once and that was in NO. Just saying things like Allen can’t defend and Naji is a 3/D wing doesn’t make them true.

jredsaz wrote:

One_and_Done wrote:

jredsaz wrote:
What makes Marshall so much more valuable than Allen exactly? Why is Marshall potentially a starter and not Allen? In five seasons Marshall has shot over 35% once and never of significant volume. Why don’t you consider him a broken player? You got me confused.

The whole reason Dallas acquired Naji was because he looked like he might be able to play as a starting 3&D wing. Their plan, before the Luka fiasco, and ridiculousKlay signing, was to replace Jones Jnr (their previous starter) with him. 3&D wings with size are a useful starting archetype. Shooting 34-35% from 3 from your small forward is fine.

Grayson is an undersized shooting guard who is bad on D, other than occasionally cheap shotting ppl with 'hustle' plays. He is not a starter on a good team. His inability to be your point guard/offensive orchestrator, means his offensive abilities aren't enough to offset his defensive weakness. That's why this player type is not valued highly, and tends to come off the bench. Just ask Malik Monk and Cam Thomas.

This is all just conjecture. Marshall qualifies as a broken player according to your own metrics. Five seasons, still can’t shoot. Allen is one of the best shooters in the NBA. According to cleaning the glass, Allen has had a positive impact on winning three out of the last four seasons and been a plus defender two out of the last four. Naji did either just once and that was in NO. Just saying things like Allen can’t defend and Naji is a 3/D wing doesn’t make them true.

If we abandoned context it might look that way. With context Naji broke out in 2024 and looked like he might be a viable starting 3, then the next year he was jerked around by a dysfunctional Mavs team and had some injuries. His 2024 season might just be a blip, but it's the only season any of these players have that indicates they're a full time starter. If he can bounce back in a better situation you're golden. If not, all you missed out on was a dime a dozen bench guard.

One_and_Done wrote:

jredsaz wrote:

One_and_Done wrote:The whole reason Dallas acquired Naji was because he looked like he might be able to play as a starting 3&D wing. Their plan, before the Luka fiasco, and ridiculousKlay signing, was to replace Jones Jnr (their previous starter) with him. 3&D wings with size are a useful starting archetype. Shooting 34-35% from 3 from your small forward is fine.

Grayson is an undersized shooting guard who is bad on D, other than occasionally cheap shotting ppl with 'hustle' plays. He is not a starter on a good team. His inability to be your point guard/offensive orchestrator, means his offensive abilities aren't enough to offset his defensive weakness. That's why this player type is not valued highly, and tends to come off the bench. Just ask Malik Monk and Cam Thomas.

This is all just conjecture. Marshall qualifies as a broken player according to your own metrics. Five seasons, still can’t shoot. Allen is one of the best shooters in the NBA. According to cleaning the glass, Allen has had a positive impact on winning three out of the last four seasons and been a plus defender two out of the last four. Naji did either just once and that was in NO. Just saying things like Allen can’t defend and Naji is a 3/D wing doesn’t make them true.

If we abandoned context it might look that way. With context Naji broke out in 2024 and looked like he might be a viable starting 3, then the next year he was jerked around by a dysfunctional Mavs team and had some injuries. His 2024 season might just be a blip, but it's the only season any of these players have that indicates they're a full time starter. If he can bounce back in a better situation you're golden. If not, all you missed out on was a dime a dozen bench guard.

In 23/24, the year you claim Marshall broke out, Allen had better statistical numbers in every single category on Bball ref comparisons page. From games played to VORP Allen was better.

jredsaz wrote:

One_and_Done wrote:

jredsaz wrote:
This is all just conjecture. Marshall qualifies as a broken player according to your own metrics. Five seasons, still can’t shoot. Allen is one of the best shooters in the NBA. According to cleaning the glass, Allen has had a positive impact on winning three out of the last four seasons and been a plus defender two out of the last four. Naji did either just once and that was in NO. Just saying things like Allen can’t defend and Naji is a 3/D wing doesn’t make them true.

If we abandoned context it might look that way. With context Naji broke out in 2024 and looked like he might be a viable starting 3, then the next year he was jerked around by a dysfunctional Mavs team and had some injuries. His 2024 season might just be a blip, but it's the only season any of these players have that indicates they're a full time starter. If he can bounce back in a better situation you're golden. If not, all you missed out on was a dime a dozen bench guard.

In 23/24, the year you claim Marshall broke out, Allen had better statistical numbers in every single category on Bball ref comparisons page. From games played to VORP Allen was better.

I don't really care what advanced/impact stats like VORP say. Naji Marshall was the more valuable player type in 24.

JRoy wrote:Pretty sure PHX prefers Allen’s shooting.

Common sense... yes.