LaVine to the Raptors (RJ + Poeltl)

[Thaddy]

Poeltl + RJ for LaVine.

The Raptors have shooting issues and a strong defense. It could mask LaVine's defensive issues. However the point for them would be financial flexibility going forward.

The Kings get an expiring RJ who's closer in age to their young core. Poeltl could be a good mentor and back up for MR. When Poeltl's contract ends MR would be up for renewal.

Value wise this is fair. Raptors fans usually think this package and a pick can get someone like Sabonis. That's far fetched based on the Kings ask.

[babyjax13]

This is short multiple firsts to Sacramento for trading and expiring for Poeltl.

[jayjaysee]

Sac taking on Poeltl’s contract with no incentive is worse than Toronto trading their starting center with no center coming back. They’d be left trying to find a rookie contract / vet min level starting center.. and that’s tough to do.

Can’t see it working for either team.

[psman2]

Sac is not playing for anything this year, better just to buyout Lavine and keep future cap clean. It could work out and Poeltl turns in some heathy seasons but not worth the risk.

[jbk1234]

The entire hold up last year on the Sabonis trade front was the King's unwillingness to take back Poeltl. I'd be surprised if that's changed.

[esvl]

I like OP for both teams

[Thaddy]

Sac taking on Poeltl’s contract with no incentive is worse than Toronto trading their starting center with no center coming back. They’d be left trying to find a rookie contract / vet min level starting center.. and that’s tough to do.

Can’t see it working for either team.

RJ is a better player than LaVine and would be on a better contract. They had interest in him before. Multiple firsts for LaVine is crazy. Poeltl's contract sucks but they'll be rebuilding through it and they aren't a FA destination.

No C is okay since they are forward heavy and better than average across their other positions.

[jayjaysee]

Sac taking on Poeltl’s contract with no incentive is worse than Toronto trading their starting center with no center coming back. They’d be left trying to find a rookie contract / vet min level starting center.. and that’s tough to do.

Can’t see it working for either team.

RJ is a better player than LaVine and would be on a better contract. They had interest in him before. Multiple firsts for LaVine is crazy. Poeltl's contract sucks but they'll be rebuilding through it and they aren't a FA destination.

No C is okay since they are forward heavy and better than average across their other positions.

Neither of us know what LaVine/RJ will make after next season. If LaVine is making 20 mil? I’m assuming he’ll have more fans than he currently does..

We do know Poeltl is overpaid and Sac has an overpaid starting center already (one that is a lot better than Poeltl)

It just doesn’t make sense.

[Thaddy]

Sac taking on Poeltl’s contract with no incentive is worse than Toronto trading their starting center with no center coming back. They’d be left trying to find a rookie contract / vet min level starting center.. and that’s tough to do.

Can’t see it working for either team.

RJ is a better player than LaVine and would be on a better contract. They had interest in him before. Multiple firsts for LaVine is crazy. Poeltl's contract sucks but they'll be rebuilding through it and they aren't a FA destination.

No C is okay since they are forward heavy and better than average across their other positions.

Neither of us know what LaVine/RJ will make after next season. If LaVine is making 20 mil? I’m assuming he’ll have more fans than he currently does..

We do know Poeltl is overpaid and Sac has an overpaid starting center already (one that is a lot better than Poeltl)

It just doesn’t make sense.

They are looking to sell Sabonis too so the logjam at C argument doesn't hold.

LaVine isn't going to be a starter on another team unless he defense improves. RJ is definitely a starter, he showed he can be a good starter on a playoff team.

It's clear who's valued higher based on recent production, age and remaining potential.

[babyjax13]

RJ is a better player than LaVine and would be on a better contract. They had interest in him before. Multiple firsts for LaVine is crazy. Poeltl's contract sucks but they'll be rebuilding through it and they aren't a FA destination.

No C is okay since they are forward heavy and better than average across their other positions.

Neither of us know what LaVine/RJ will make after next season. If LaVine is making 20 mil? I’m assuming he’ll have more fans than he currently does..

We do know Poeltl is overpaid and Sac has an overpaid starting center already (one that is a lot better than Poeltl)

It just doesn’t make sense.

They are looking to sell Sabonis too so the logjam at C argument doesn't hold.

LaVine isn't going to be a starter on another team unless he defense improves. RJ is definitely a starter, he showed he can be a good starter on a playoff team.

It's clear who's valued higher based on recent production, age and remaining potential.

1. Sabonis is still on the team and it is not clear he can be traded, so it is still relevant
2. even if Sabonis were not on the team Poeltl is coming off of three seasons in a row of missing a ton of games (played 57,50, and 46) and is on an expensive extension
3. LaVine has a long (and recent) track record of being much better than RJ, not that teams want LaVine, but I don't see why anyone should be super confident that RJ is better; but, even if there is a large trade difference, that is waaaaayyyy more than offset by Poeltl's contract

I could imagine something around Poeltl + filler + a pick for Sabonis. Mayyyybe there is a Poeltl + filler + pick deal for LaVine, but I suspect it takes two to turn Jakob into an expiring deal.

[jayjaysee]

RJ is a better player than LaVine and would be on a better contract. They had interest in him before. Multiple firsts for LaVine is crazy. Poeltl's contract sucks but they'll be rebuilding through it and they aren't a FA destination.

No C is okay since they are forward heavy and better than average across their other positions.

Neither of us know what LaVine/RJ will make after next season. If LaVine is making 20 mil? I’m assuming he’ll have more fans than he currently does..

We do know Poeltl is overpaid and Sac has an overpaid starting center already (one that is a lot better than Poeltl)

It just doesn’t make sense.

They are looking to sell Sabonis too so the logjam at C argument doesn't hold.

LaVine isn't going to be a starter on another team unless he defense improves. RJ is definitely a starter, he showed he can be a good starter on a playoff team.

It's clear who's valued higher based on recent production, age and remaining potential.

I like RJ over LaVine…

But it clear the OP isn’t RJ for LaVine. It’s LaVine for RJ and Poeltl..

If Sac can’t get a decent asset for Sabonis, keeping him and avoiding the bottom 3 of the lottery - is better than just trading him to trade him IMO. And I think that’s where Sac is. So I think the logjam argument is obviously valid.

And even without it, Expiring RJ isn’t worth taking on Poeltl’s deal for an useful expiring. Sorry.

And go back to my original comment - Toronto should not put themselves in a position to have no starting level center and have to go bargain shopping - or overpay for a young center.. Not for Zach LaVine.

[Thaddy]

Neither of us know what LaVine/RJ will make after next season. If LaVine is making 20 mil? I’m assuming he’ll have more fans than he currently does..

We do know Poeltl is overpaid and Sac has an overpaid starting center already (one that is a lot better than Poeltl)

It just doesn’t make sense.

They are looking to sell Sabonis too so the logjam at C argument doesn't hold.

LaVine isn't going to be a starter on another team unless he defense improves. RJ is definitely a starter, he showed he can be a good starter on a playoff team.

It's clear who's valued higher based on recent production, age and remaining potential.

I like RJ over LaVine…

But it clear the OP isn’t RJ for LaVine. It’s LaVine for RJ and Poeltl..

If Sac can’t get a decent asset for Sabonis, keeping him and avoiding the bottom 3 of the lottery - is better than just trading him to trade him IMO. And I think that’s where Sac is. So I think the logjam argument is obviously valid.

And even without it, Expiring RJ isn’t worth taking on Poeltl’s deal for an useful expiring. Sorry.

And go back to my original comment - Toronto should not put themselves in a position to have no starting level center and have to go bargain shopping - or overpay for a young center.. Not for Zach LaVine.

Sabonis likely doesn't want to be around for another tanking season. If they wait out that whole upcoming season he would be an expiring and his value would fall even further. They're on a timeline with him and he'll probably be gone at some point this season. I can see a deal with Poeltl going to a third team if they really don't want him.

Toronto has other assets after a trade like this. The most likely would probably be Walter or Shead for a back up big. RJ probably won't get it done for them since they want a specific type of player there.

Otherwise CMB could hold down the 5 for this season and get his minutes there. They also drafted Graves who was a small ball 5 in college. Successful teams have gotten away with this, like the Celtics.

I could see Lively for Walter being an option if Morez Johnson fits at the 5 better than the 4.

Lively / Graves
CMB / Graves
Barnes / Anderson
Leonard / LaVine
IQ / Shead

LaVine gives them cap flexibility to hold down this core for the next few years. Shead and Lively would need new contracts soon. They would also have the means to get some ring chasers.

[babyjax13]

They are looking to sell Sabonis too so the logjam at C argument doesn't hold.

LaVine isn't going to be a starter on another team unless he defense improves. RJ is definitely a starter, he showed he can be a good starter on a playoff team.

It's clear who's valued higher based on recent production, age and remaining potential.

I like RJ over LaVine…

But it clear the OP isn’t RJ for LaVine. It’s LaVine for RJ and Poeltl..

If Sac can’t get a decent asset for Sabonis, keeping him and avoiding the bottom 3 of the lottery - is better than just trading him to trade him IMO. And I think that’s where Sac is. So I think the logjam argument is obviously valid.

And even without it, Expiring RJ isn’t worth taking on Poeltl’s deal for an useful expiring. Sorry.

And go back to my original comment - Toronto should not put themselves in a position to have no starting level center and have to go bargain shopping - or overpay for a young center.. Not for Zach LaVine.

Sabonis likely doesn't want to be around for another tanking season. If they wait out that whole upcoming season he would be an expiring and his value would fall even further. They're on a timeline with him and he'll probably be gone at some point this season. I can see a deal with Poeltl going to a third team if they really don't want him.

Toronto has other assets after a trade like this. The most likely would probably be Walter or Shead for a back up big. RJ probably won't get it done for them since they want a specific type of player there.

Otherwise CMB could hold down the 5 for this season and get his minutes there. They also drafted Graves who was a small ball 5 in college. Successful teams have gotten away with this, like the Celtics.

Sabonis will be more valuable as an expiring. He is paid too much for what he provides and it is basically irrelevant whether he wants to be traded since no one wants him. But as bad as his deal is for what he provides, Poeltl's is much worse. Unless a team is sending back equally bad money, there is no scenario where a receiving team assigns positive value to him at all and they will (rightly) demand at least one first round pick for taking him. That should be a bad team like Sacramento who is willing to do it, so I don't think the target is necessarily a bad one for them if they are incentivized to take him.

[Mr Swagtastic]

Makes little sense for Sacramento and Toronto. LaVine isn't that much better than RJ to massively downgrade at the C position. I doubt Sacramento wants to pay Poeltl to be Sabonis backup or trade Sabonis for pennies on the dollar. Rumor is Sacramento and LaVine are headed to a potential buyout. If Toronto wants LaVine let them try to get him as a FA mentor Walter for a year and then look to possibly trade RJ for say a Jrue Holiday

[mademan]

Ya bad value for the Kings, who need picks to take on Poeltl. But Poeltl is still a good C when he's healthy and playing, and Raps are trying to win, so they cant really pay to dump him (or even not pay to dump him, like this trade here).

[jbk1234]

Makes little sense for Sacramento and Toronto. LaVine isn't that much better than RJ to massively downgrade at the C position. I doubt Sacramento wants to pay Poeltl to be Sabonis backup or trade Sabonis for pennies on the dollar. Rumor is Sacramento and LaVine are headed to a potential buyout. If Toronto wants LaVine let them try to get him as a FA mentor Walter for a year and then look to possibly trade RJ for say a Jrue Holiday

I don't put much stock in that rumor. Reporting has refuted it and it didn't make much sense at face value. LaVine would have to give up a lot for it to make any sense for the Kings and he's not guaranteed to make up a lot. The Kings were reportedly willing to work with him on a S&T if he opted out and wanted a long-term deal with another team. The fact that he opted in suggested that market wasn't there. A $50M expiring contract attached to a useful player could have real trade value at the deadline. Frankly, the entire thing smelled like the type of Pat-Riley-sponsored rumor that he likes to put out in the universe with the hope it will take off.

[Mr Swagtastic]

Makes little sense for Sacramento and Toronto. LaVine isn't that much better than RJ to massively downgrade at the C position. I doubt Sacramento wants to pay Poeltl to be Sabonis backup or trade Sabonis for pennies on the dollar. Rumor is Sacramento and LaVine are headed to a potential buyout. If Toronto wants LaVine let them try to get him as a FA mentor Walter for a year and then look to possibly trade RJ for say a Jrue Holiday

I don't put much stock in that rumor. Reporting has refuted it and it didn't make much sense at face value. LaVine would have to give up a lot for it to make any sense for the Kings and he's not guaranteed to make up a lot. The Kings were reportedly willing to work with him on a S&T if he opted out and wanted a long-term deal with another team. The fact that he opted in suggested that market wasn't there. A $50M expiring contract attached to a useful player could have real trade value at the deadline. Frankly, the entire thing smelled like the type of Pat-Riley-sponsored rumor that he likes to put out in the universe with the hope it will take off.

Not all expiring deals are the same. For LaVine your going to have to eat some bad salary to get a player you feel fits better. Honestly I don't see many deals out there for him. I get the fit in Miami but they are capped making a deal really hard like it's say Portis and Wiggins for LaVine and you got to convince me LaVine is better IMHO he's not.

I was thinking off the top of my head Thompson plus Washington and one of Lively or Gafford for Sabonis and LaVine but tyre numbers are so far off

[jbk1234]

Makes little sense for Sacramento and Toronto. LaVine isn't that much better than RJ to massively downgrade at the C position. I doubt Sacramento wants to pay Poeltl to be Sabonis backup or trade Sabonis for pennies on the dollar. Rumor is Sacramento and LaVine are headed to a potential buyout. If Toronto wants LaVine let them try to get him as a FA mentor Walter for a year and then look to possibly trade RJ for say a Jrue Holiday

I don't put much stock in that rumor. Reporting has refuted it and it didn't make much sense at face value. LaVine would have to give up a lot for it to make any sense for the Kings and he's not guaranteed to make up a lot. The Kings were reportedly willing to work with him on a S&T if he opted out and wanted a long-term deal with another team. The fact that he opted in suggested that market wasn't there. A $50M expiring contract attached to a useful player could have real trade value at the deadline. Frankly, the entire thing smelled like the type of Pat-Riley-sponsored rumor that he likes to put out in the universe with the hope it will take off.

Not all expiring deals are the same. For LaVine your going to have to eat some bad salary to get a player you feel fits better. Honestly I don't see many deals out there for him. I get the fit in Miami but they are capped making a deal really hard like it's say Portis and Wiggins for LaVine and you got to convince me LaVine is better IMHO he's not.

I was thinking off the top of my head Thompson plus Washington and one of Lively or Gafford for Sabonis and LaVine but tyre numbers are so far off

LaVine is the type of player who usually gets bought out after the deadline, if at all. The Kings aren't going to accept a 10% give back before the season starts. That cap space will have value next summer and they can trade it.

[Texas Chuck]

LaVine should not take any buy out. Why punt your Bird Rights like that? Or give up any money.

[Mavrelous]

Lavone bird rights are worth very little, and he's much better off being on a team that wants him than a team that told him you're not in our plans, he shoud reach a buy out and go to Miami or Detroit.
I have RJ and Lavine as similar level player, so TOR should compensate SAC for Poeltl extra years.