Cameron Johnsons trade value and trade interest for him

[Alatan]

For Denver it would be ideal if they could trade Cam Johnson into someone's TPE and get back no salary or as close to non as possible. That would allow them to extend Watson and possibly even stay under the 2nd apron.

In a vacuum Cam as a solid starter on a expiring deal is a positive asset that might net back a late 1st or a high 2nd but in this scenario Denver might even need to pay a 1st to move him.

Considering the cap squeeze Denver is in, that is exaggerated by Watsons extension questions, it is not entirely illogical for Denver to even pay to move Watson into someones cap space or for a TPE since they could then "replace" him with Watson who plays the same position but is a much better defender, is younger and has show flashes of on ball creation. Id also like to point out that I think that Denver cant have a functioning defense with the trio of Jokic, Murray and Cam even as Cam is not a bad starter in general.

Deals like taking Cam and sending back a player that makes less than him but still more than a few million dont work for Denver as it doesnt accomplish their primary goal for moving Cam. That being the clearing of money Denver can use to resign Watson and stay under or as close to the 2nd apron as possible. So please no such trades with the excuse of how it "drastically" lowers Denvers tax. For such purposes Denver would instead rather sign and trade Watson or just accept Watson on a QO as a rental. Or find other ways to shed salary through cut and stretches of other players or dumping worse players on smaller deals.

So the first question is, if you were Denver with the closing competitive window in mind and Jokics looming free agency, would you rather have Cam Johnson and two 1st round picks (one saved by not moving Cam and one from a Watson SnT) along with some minor additions (from the Watson SnT) OR Watson locked on a 20ish million a year multi year contract (similar to Brauns deal)? Assuming that moving Cam into someones cap or for a TPE is possible for a 1st.

The 2nd question is as fans of other teams, how interested would you be in getting Cam on your team in a 3 team deal where one of the team has a large TPE they send to Denver in exchange for Cam?

[Mavrelous]

CamJo for DFS/2 2nds.
DFS xan be stretcjed over 7 years at 1.9/yr.
DEN can sign Wataon to 105/5 and stay below the 2nd Apron.
Cam is a 5th starter/6th man type.of player on a slightly overpaid deal bit his bird rights are useful

[psman2]

The only teams that can take him into a TPE are Memphis and Charlotte.

For Memphis I don't think we are interested anymore with Grant here needing minutes along with all our youth we want to develop. If we can find a 3 way with Memphis sending Grant out then maybe something can be figured out. Grant to LAL for their flotsam has being bantered around here with CamJo and most of the LAL salary landing in Memphis.

For Charlotte, he makes a little more sense as a 3/4, but still rather focus on getting youth minutes there.... like I want Steinbach getting all the backup PF minutes and the minutes behind Miller are likely well covered too. Just not a big need. If they could at least get off DFS money then I think they could justify having an expensive bench piece, but paying CamJ 23m to play bench minutes over Royce and Grant is not the best way to spend money on a team that is taking a step back this year more than likely. Rather hold the TPE and try to get assets for it.

[MoneyTalks41890]

Seems like Memphis is a good place to look but not sure the incentives. Swaps?

[Alatan]

The only teams that can take him into a TPE are Memphis and Charlotte.

For Memphis I don't think we are interested anymore with Grant here needing minutes along with all our youth we want to develop. If we can find a 3 way with Memphis sending Grant out then maybe something can be figured out. Grant to LAL for their flotsam has being bantered around here with CamJo and most of the LAL salary landing in Memphis.

For Charlotte, he makes a little more sense as a 3/4, but still rather focus on getting youth minutes there.... like I want Steinbach getting all the backup PF minutes and the minutes behind Miller are likely well covered too. Just not a big need. If they could at least get off DFS money then I think they could justify having an expensive bench piece, but paying CamJ 23m to play bench minutes over Royce and Grant is not the best way to spend money on a team that is taking a step back this year more than likely. Rather hold the TPE and try to get assets for it.

I agree that teams with existing large TPEs dont have interest in Cam as a player since they are most likely rebuilding. But how much value do you think you could get for the TPE if a 1st in exchange for just one year or salary is not enough? Do you think someone will pay more than a 1st to dump salary? Has that ever happened? Cam is not even bad salary and a three team deal could be made where the third team also pays some assets to turn their unwanted salary into Cam.

[Alatan]

CamJo for DFS/2 2nds.
DFS xan be stretcjed over 7 years at 1.9/yr.
DEN can sign Wataon to 105/5 and stay below the 2nd Apron.
Cam is a 5th starter/6th man type.of player on a slightly overpaid deal bit his bird rights are useful

DFS as in Dorian Finney-Smith? I dont know how his contract works if traded. If i understand correctly you propose that only his 2026/27 contract year is guaranteed while the rest are not but can be stretched for the 2 times the full duration of the contract +1 year. Im not sure if that works either. If it does then it would be an example of a great deal.

[Alatan]

Seems like Memphis is a good place to look but not sure the incentives. Swaps?

Im probably in the minority, but considering Denvers closing contention window, Jokics free agency and Denvers inability to improve meaningfully in any way in the near future i would be open to pay a distant 1st or offer a swap to move Cam for pure cap relief.

Watson plays a position of need, being a 3nD player that is athletic and has upside as a creator, scorer and ball handler. All the things Denver needs. So choosing him over Cam and a first or two (from a potential Watson SnT) would be preferred.

It would be as if Denver traded Cam and two firsts for a promising young two way player witch is not far from real trade value.

Ive quickly looked for what Denver has available and sadly they can only offer a 2031 unprotected swap (witch might be enought) a 2028 top 10 protected swap or 2 2nd round picks. Perhaps one of those or a combination of a (protected?) swap and a 2nd can be enough.

Or maybe if there is enough 3rd team interest the 3rd team can pay the TPE team for Cam to move to them.

[DanishLakerFan]

Lakers would have interest in Cam. But can absorb his salary, so a third team has to be involved.
Mentioned an option earlier based on Cam going to LA, LaRavia to Den and Memphis getting some type of incentive to eat some salary.

[LarsV8]

Hate to say it, but the smart play would have been to trade Jokic this offseason.

Paying him more money, with no assets to improve the team is treadmill recipe.

They could get an absolute haul right now, and its likely the last opportunity to do so.

[esvl]

I feel like the Denver FO needs to finally accept the reality that their only meaningful option is to pay FRP to Charlotte or Memphis for Cam J and resign Watson.

[cucad8]

Still think something roughly around
Denver In: TPE
Denver Out: Cam

Charlotte In: Jrue
Charlotte Out: DFS

Portland In: Cam, DFS
Portland Out: Jrue

Denver saves Cam's full salary. Charlotte adds vet PG, who can easily play alongside Coby in the backcourt. Portland balances out their roster.

[Alatan]

Hate to say it, but the smart play would have been to trade Jokic this offseason.

Paying him more money, with no assets to improve the team is treadmill recipe.

They could get an absolute haul right now, and its likely the last opportunity to do so.

Im not sure there is currently enough interest for Jokic on his last year. Jokic would need to agree to an extension but his best financial option is to get another supermax from Denver or chose where he wants to sign an extension without considering the best trade package for Denver. Jokic does not gain much if he accepts a worse contract from a team that traded half their roster and draft assets for him, so he would not be incentivized to play along.

Denver also gave away quite a lot of their draft assets so tanking is not as profitable and they have veteran players locked on long contracts that dont have much trade value. They dont even have much of young players with upside except for Watson if they manage and extension and Brazile. Tanking is also not as profitable for the ownership compared to having their arenas sold out as a playoff team with their best ever NBA player that brought them their only title.

Trading Jokic can still be a fallback plan if he signs an extension with them but the team underperforms.

[Alatan]

I feel like the Denver FO needs to finally accept the reality that their only meaningful option is to pay FRP to Charlotte or Memphis for Cam J and resign Watson.

I agree. The question is how much if at all Denver would need to pay to move Cam. Looking back historically no team has ever payed more than a 1st round pick to dump a player that was either or both a worse player or had a worse contract. So offering a 1st is pretty generous in my opinion.

Realistically it might be more like a 1st round swap, a protected 1st round swap or 2 2nds along with anything hypothetical 3rd team could add to get Cam instead for their salary. But as i said i would not be opposed to even trading a full first if Denver actually had any tradable.

Maybe a top 5-10 protected swap (in either 2031 or 2028) and a 2nd is the most Denver can and would go.

[Vae Victus]

Yea CamJo does NOT have positive value (IE able to fetch minor draft capital + less salary coming back or none if absorbed via TPE), as he's a bit overpaid and NBA GMs are wisening up on not overpaying for his archtype of player. If DEN is trying to trade him to a TPE team (CHA/MEM), theyre gonna hold DEN over the barrel as they likely wont need him and will charge dearly for DEN to duck the 2nd apron.

At best DEN needs to find a convoluted 3way where Cam goes out, minor salary comes back (ideally 10mil or less), and some draft compensation goes out to grease the wheels. DEN's best target at this point is DJJ, he fits what they need, perfectly fine playoff rotation player, makes under 10.5mil, expiring too. Problem is, what's it gonna take to pry him out of LAC AND dumping CamJo. I feel if 2nd apron ducking, talent retention, AND not overpaying PWat, i'd try to loop LAC into a 3way.

DEN trades
CamJo
S&T PWat
Possibly 1 or 2 SRPs (haggling will be involved)
Receives
DJJ
Minor Expiring Salary, ideally something semi useful off the end of the bench

LAC trades
DJJ
1 or 2 SRPs (Clips will obviously try to haggle hard)
Receives
S&T PWat

3rd team
Some expiring salary ballast + Minor Expiring Salary, theyd want to dump someone utterly useless ideally, but if its someone semi useful theyll want more SRPs
Receives CamJo
2-4 SRPs (team will haggle hard as expected)

DEN drops a bunch of salary and dont take the risk of PWat being a flash in the pan AND get a solid 3/4 tweener rotation player in DJJ who can replicate most of what PWat can do but at the fraction of the contract cost.

LAC takes a risk on PWat and pays him something like 4/72mil with 4th player option and hope he keeps developing into a fringe All Star level player at the 3/4. Losing DJJ sucks but he's not a long term piece, so they try to sell him off at the height of his current trade value.

3rd Team mostly does this to get as many assets as possible, heck theyll prolly try to spin CamJo elsewhere for expiring crappy or multi year overpaid player player + draft capital if they could (something that DEN was unable to do due to the 2nd apron). If DEN can extract a cheap useful expiring player out of this 3rd team, that would be ideal, but obviously will cost some draft capital.

[Alatan]

Yea CamJo does NOT have positive value (IE able to fetch minor draft capital + less salary coming back or none if absorbed via TPE), as he's a bit overpaid and NBA GMs are wisening up on not overpaying for his archtype of player. If DEN is trying to trade him to a TPE team (CHA/MEM), theyre gonna hold DEN over the barrel as they likely wont need him and will charge dearly for DEN to duck the 2nd apron.

At best DEN needs to find a convoluted 3way where Cam goes out, minor salary comes back (ideally 10mil or less), and some draft compensation goes out to grease the wheels. DEN's best target at this point is DJJ, he fits what they need, perfectly fine playoff rotation player, makes under 10.5mil, expiring too. Problem is, what's it gonna take to pry him out of LAC AND dumping CamJo. I feel if 2nd apron ducking, talent retention, AND not overpaying PWat, i'd try to loop LAC into a 3way.

DEN trades
CamJo
S&T PWat
Possibly 1 or 2 SRPs (haggling will be involved)
Receives
DJJ
Minor Expiring Salary, ideally something semi useful off the end of the bench

LAC trades
DJJ
1 or 2 SRPs (Clips will obviously try to haggle hard)
Receives
S&T PWat

3rd team
Some expiring salary ballast + Minor Expiring Salary, theyd want to dump someone utterly useless ideally, but if its someone semi useful theyll want more SRPs
Receives CamJo
2-4 SRPs (team will haggle hard as expected)

DEN drops a bunch of salary and dont take the risk of PWat being a flash in the pan AND get a solid 3/4 tweener rotation player in DJJ who can replicate most of what PWat can do but at the fraction of the contract cost.

LAC takes a risk on PWat and pays him something like 4/72mil with 4th player option and hope he keeps developing into a fringe All Star level player at the 3/4. Losing DJJ sucks but he's not a long term piece, so they try to sell him off at the height of his current trade value.

3rd Team mostly does this to get as many assets as possible, heck theyll prolly try to spin CamJo elsewhere for expiring crappy or multi year overpaid player player + draft capital if they could (something that DEN was unable to do due to the 2nd apron). If DEN can extract a cheap useful expiring player out of this 3rd team, that would be ideal, but obviously will cost some draft capital.

Denver is not looking to do all this and SnT Watson. The whole idea was to trade Cam to be able to extend Watson without a massive tax hit.
Denver can easily avoid the tax hit if they accepted scraps for a Watson SnT. Not to talk about further paying to move Cam for no reason.

The issue is that Watson is their only way of significantly improving the roster to stay competitive. All other deals that revolve around Denver just ducking the 2nd apron by getting worse are irrelevant. At worst Denver can just cut and stretch Cam and completely avoid the 2nd apron even with Watsons QO and all the extra salary they added with minor additions.

I know that getting Watson for scraps is a juicy dream for many a fan outside Denver but its not happening.

[psman2]

The only teams that can take him into a TPE are Memphis and Charlotte.

For Memphis I don't think we are interested anymore with Grant here needing minutes along with all our youth we want to develop. If we can find a 3 way with Memphis sending Grant out then maybe something can be figured out. Grant to LAL for their flotsam has being bantered around here with CamJo and most of the LAL salary landing in Memphis.

For Charlotte, he makes a little more sense as a 3/4, but still rather focus on getting youth minutes there.... like I want Steinbach getting all the backup PF minutes and the minutes behind Miller are likely well covered too. Just not a big need. If they could at least get off DFS money then I think they could justify having an expensive bench piece, but paying CamJ 23m to play bench minutes over Royce and Grant is not the best way to spend money on a team that is taking a step back this year more than likely. Rather hold the TPE and try to get assets for it.

I agree that teams with existing large TPEs dont have interest in Cam as a player since they are most likely rebuilding. But how much value do you think you could get for the TPE if a 1st in exchange for just one year or salary is not enough? Do you think someone will pay more than a 1st to dump salary? Has that ever happened? Cam is not even bad salary and a three team deal could be made where the third team also pays some assets to turn their unwanted salary into Cam.

I think the best approach is Cam landing on a team that bears most of the burden to pay for the required salary dump to Memphis. Paying Memphis to directly take in CamJ is not the play here.

[Alatan]

The only teams that can take him into a TPE are Memphis and Charlotte.

For Memphis I don't think we are interested anymore with Grant here needing minutes along with all our youth we want to develop. If we can find a 3 way with Memphis sending Grant out then maybe something can be figured out. Grant to LAL for their flotsam has being bantered around here with CamJo and most of the LAL salary landing in Memphis.

For Charlotte, he makes a little more sense as a 3/4, but still rather focus on getting youth minutes there.... like I want Steinbach getting all the backup PF minutes and the minutes behind Miller are likely well covered too. Just not a big need. If they could at least get off DFS money then I think they could justify having an expensive bench piece, but paying CamJ 23m to play bench minutes over Royce and Grant is not the best way to spend money on a team that is taking a step back this year more than likely. Rather hold the TPE and try to get assets for it.

I agree that teams with existing large TPEs dont have interest in Cam as a player since they are most likely rebuilding. But how much value do you think you could get for the TPE if a 1st in exchange for just one year or salary is not enough? Do you think someone will pay more than a 1st to dump salary? Has that ever happened? Cam is not even bad salary and a three team deal could be made where the third team also pays some assets to turn their unwanted salary into Cam.

I think the best approach is Cam landing on a team that bears most of the burden to pay for the required salary dump to Memphis. Paying Memphis to directly take in CamJ is not the play here.

That would be ideal. But i also doubt that Memphis would have issues taking on Cam for a hypothetical protected 1st swap if the came to it.

[psman2]

I agree that teams with existing large TPEs dont have interest in Cam as a player since they are most likely rebuilding. But how much value do you think you could get for the TPE if a 1st in exchange for just one year or salary is not enough? Do you think someone will pay more than a 1st to dump salary? Has that ever happened? Cam is not even bad salary and a three team deal could be made where the third team also pays some assets to turn their unwanted salary into Cam.

I think the best approach is Cam landing on a team that bears most of the burden to pay for the required salary dump to Memphis. Paying Memphis to directly take in CamJ is not the play here.

That would be ideal. But i also doubt that Memphis would have issues taking on Cam for a hypothetical protected 1st swap if the came to it.

Depends on the swap. Having CamJ take playing time away from our youth and possible upset with his role here is not worth 23m from our owner or the ability to possible sell the TPE for better assets if the swap is a low odds/value option. If Grant wasn't here we have 25 minutes for CamJ easy, but as of now likely one will need to be DNP for us to accomplish our goals this season. And Grant having another year on his deal makes DNP him from the start not very attractive.

[Alatan]

I think the best approach is Cam landing on a team that bears most of the burden to pay for the required salary dump to Memphis. Paying Memphis to directly take in CamJ is not the play here.

That would be ideal. But i also doubt that Memphis would have issues taking on Cam for a hypothetical protected 1st swap if the came to it.

Depends on the swap. Having CamJ take playing time away from our youth and possible upset with his role here is not worth 23m from our owner or the ability to possible sell the TPE for better assets if the swap is a low odds/value option. If Grant wasn't here we have 25 minutes for CamJ easy, but as of now likely one will need to be DNP for us to accomplish our goals this season. And Grant having another year on his deal makes DNP him from the start not very attractive.

I doubt that Cam is the type to make a fuss about his situation or that GMs consider that when calculating the return when selling cap space but if it is i dont think it would be too hard to find a buyer for him in a 3 team trade. Teams like Miami, LAL or even GSW could use some shooting if it came at a very low cost Denver is willing to give it away.

[psman2]

That would be ideal. But i also doubt that Memphis would have issues taking on Cam for a hypothetical protected 1st swap if the came to it.

Depends on the swap. Having CamJ take playing time away from our youth and possible upset with his role here is not worth 23m from our owner or the ability to possible sell the TPE for better assets if the swap is a low odds/value option. If Grant wasn't here we have 25 minutes for CamJ easy, but as of now likely one will need to be DNP for us to accomplish our goals this season. And Grant having another year on his deal makes DNP him from the start not very attractive.

I doubt that Cam is the type to make a fuss about his situation or that GMs consider that when calculating the return when selling cap space but if it is i dont think it would be too hard to find a buyer for him in a 3 team trade. Teams like Miami, LAL or even GSW could use some shooting if it came at a very low cost Denver is willing to give it away.

Right we want the best asset first and foremost using our TPE, if we don't view CamJ as a team need then we are going to charge just for the TPE and the 23m coming out of the owner's pocket. That is why 3rd teams that are more likely to value CamJ the player should be in play here. Memphis playing both Grant and CamJ big minutes next year just makes no sense for our rebuild.