Schroder to Memphis

[Bentley1225]

In light of reports Cavs want to create more apron room, I assume to sign 1-2 more guys plus Harden, Ill offer this idea

To Cleveland
-2033 Warriors 2nd round pick
-2033 OKC 2nd round pick
-$14.8 million TPE (Portion of Jaren Jackson $28.8 million TPE)

To Memphis
-Denis Schroder (2 years, $30.3 million - $19.2 million guaranteed)
-2033 Cavs 1st round pick (lottery protected)

Why?
-Cavs create $15 million in flexibility in an effort to add more depth including re-signing Harden
-Memphis leverages space under 1st apron to absorb the Schroder contract who can essentially start as they can waive D'Angelo Russell to make room for Schroder. They pick up a lottery protected 1st for 2 2nds for taking on the Schroder contract.

[QMemphis]

Definitely gotta take that lotto protection off.

[Mavrelous]

No one is payong unprotected 1st to dump 18M

[Apz]

Think removing the 2nds and making the 1st top 8 protected is more realistic. Its not only the money memphis takes on, it also devalues the unused part of the tpe and what it can bring in in assets and players. Like i would love to dump vando into an tpe for a non lotto 1st and even get 2 2nds back, thats how I know its way too good for cavs

[mcfly1204]

I don't see Cleveland using a 1st to dump Schroder, let alone one with less protection. They would be better suited to free up space elsewhere, where they could potentially use that pick to lure in a higher caliber player.

[Bentley1225]

I don't see Cleveland using a 1st to dump Schroder, let alone one with less protection. They would be better suited to free up space elsewhere, where they could potentially use that pick to lure in a higher caliber player.

Its a lottery protected 1st plus $30 million in salary given tax implications for 2 2nds in same draft year (2033)

[Bentley1225]

Definitely gotta take that lotto protection off.

Yeah, Cleveland will just pay greater tax bill instead of using a non protected 1st just to dump Schroder who is still a viable starting NBA point guard.

[esvl]

Definitely gotta take that lotto protection off.

Yeah, Cleveland will just pay greater tax bill instead of using a non protected 1st just to dump Schroder who is still a viable starting NBA point guard.

OP is not an unreasonable offer from the Memphis perspective, but it is not very exciting either. They would likely prefer to sit on their TPE during the season in anticipation of big moves that will require facilitation. That`s where they can get an unprotected 1st by selling full TPE (29m) with young players/moderate assets attached.

[Prospect Dong]

No one is payong unprotected 1st to dump 18M

It's $30m though? Over two years? I feel like the OP values him like an expiring, or a guy Memphis actually wants for two years at an appreciable portion of his salary. Two seconds for an unknown non-lotto first isn't neutral value, but it's probably only another couple of seconds away from that.

The second question is maybe worth debating, but I don't think it's helpful to describe him as a "viable starting PG". He's not that, and I don't think he ever really was. If we was expiring, I can see Memphis viewing having a true veteran PG as an advantage, but they're almost certainly not going to want to go into the 27/28 season with a roster that has a bunch of minutes for Schroder. He's close to dead weight by that point, and not worth his salary to Memphis even in year one.

I think this is close if you take out the 2nds and make in top 10 protection, rolling over to the next year if it doesn't convey, or top 7 protected if you want it to turn into two 2nds.

[Mavrelous]

No one is payong unprotected 1st to dump 18M

It's $30m though? Over two years? I feel like the OP values him like an expiring, or a guy Memphis actually wants for two years at an appreciable portion of his salary. Two seconds for an unknown non-lotto first isn't neutral value, but it's probably only another couple of seconds away from that.

The second question is maybe worth debating, but I don't think it's helpful to describe him as a "viable starting PG". He's not that, and I don't think he ever really was. If we was expiring, I can see Memphis viewing having a true veteran PG as an advantage, but they're almost certainly not going to want to go into the 27/28 season with a roster that has a bunch of minutes for Schroder. He's close to dead weight by that point, and not worth his salary to Memphis even in year one.

I think this is close if you take out the 2nds and make in top 10 protection, rolling over to the next year if it doesn't convey, or top 7 protected if you want it to turn into two 2nds.

He has only 4.35 guaranteed next year, so it's 14.8 this year and 4.35 next year.
His W&S hit is 3.9 which Cavs can also do...

[QMemphis]

Definitely gotta take that lotto protection off.

Yeah, Cleveland will just pay greater tax bill instead of using a non protected 1st just to dump Schroder who is still a viable starting NBA point guard.

Well you guys should do that then. Taking on 19 million in dead money for a guy we wouldn’t roster is non starter without a real asset coming back.

33 Warriors pick may be a top 10 second round pick and Thunder pick is likely late.

Taking the chance of getting 16-30 for a pick that Cavs would ultimately tank to keep is a no go. I can compromise on a top ten protection and remove our 2nds. With the 33 Cavs 1st rolling to 2 seconds the following year.

[jbk1234]

No one is payong unprotected 1st to dump 18M

It's $30m though? Over two years? I feel like the OP values him like an expiring, or a guy Memphis actually wants for two years at an appreciable portion of his salary. Two seconds for an unknown non-lotto first isn't neutral value, but it's probably only another couple of seconds away from that.

The second question is maybe worth debating, but I don't think it's helpful to describe him as a "viable starting PG". He's not that, and I don't think he ever really was. If we was expiring, I can see Memphis viewing having a true veteran PG as an advantage, but they're almost certainly not going to want to go into the 27/28 season with a roster that has a bunch of minutes for Schroder. He's close to dead weight by that point, and not worth his salary to Memphis even in year one.

I think this is close if you take out the 2nds and make in top 10 protection, rolling over to the next year if it doesn't convey, or top 7 protected if you want it to turn into two 2nds.

He has only 4.35 guaranteed next year, so it's 14.8 this year and 4.35 next year.
His W&S hit is 3.9 which Cavs can also do...

Thank you. This is like the 10th time the minimal guaranty on his second year had been brought up in the T&T board.

The Hornets are rumored to have some interest in him, the Cavs could just stretch waive Schroder, or trade Strus.

More to the point, none of things are going to happen unless they can settle on a contract and acquisition price for either Kuminga or Watson, which as of right now don't appear any the closer to happening than they were a month ago. Absent another acquisition, there's no need to trade or release anyone as Harden is going to extend at a number that will drop the Cavs below the second apron.

[Prospect Dong]

It's $30m though? Over two years? I feel like the OP values him like an expiring, or a guy Memphis actually wants for two years at an appreciable portion of his salary. Two seconds for an unknown non-lotto first isn't neutral value, but it's probably only another couple of seconds away from that.

The second question is maybe worth debating, but I don't think it's helpful to describe him as a "viable starting PG". He's not that, and I don't think he ever really was. If we was expiring, I can see Memphis viewing having a true veteran PG as an advantage, but they're almost certainly not going to want to go into the 27/28 season with a roster that has a bunch of minutes for Schroder. He's close to dead weight by that point, and not worth his salary to Memphis even in year one.

I think this is close if you take out the 2nds and make in top 10 protection, rolling over to the next year if it doesn't convey, or top 7 protected if you want it to turn into two 2nds.

He has only 4.35 guaranteed next year, so it's 14.8 this year and 4.35 next year.
His W&S hit is 3.9 which Cavs can also do...

Thank you. This is like the 10th time the minimal guaranty on his second year had been brought up in the T&T board.

The Hornets are rumored to have some interest in him, the Cavs could just stretch waive Schroder, or trade Strus.

More to the point, none of things are going to happen unless they can settle on a contract and acquisition price for either Kuminga or Watson, which as of right now don't appear any the closer to happening than they were a month ago. Absent another acquisition, there's no need to trade or release anyone as Harden is going to extend at a number that will drop the Cavs below the second apron.

Yeah, ok, 2nd year mostly unguaranteed changes the equation quite a bit. I think the 2nds still need to come out, but the protection on the 1st is fine. Memphis is getting a guy they value at maybe half his salary and eating a small but irritating residual next year, and the Cavs are getting immediate pure cap space. A bad first sounds about right.

[jbk1234]

He has only 4.35 guaranteed next year, so it's 14.8 this year and 4.35 next year.
His W&S hit is 3.9 which Cavs can also do...

Thank you. This is like the 10th time the minimal guaranty on his second year had been brought up in the T&T board.

The Hornets are rumored to have some interest in him, the Cavs could just stretch waive Schroder, or trade Strus.

More to the point, none of things are going to happen unless they can settle on a contract and acquisition price for either Kuminga or Watson, which as of right now don't appear any the closer to happening than they were a month ago. Absent another acquisition, there's no need to trade or release anyone as Harden is going to extend at a number that will drop the Cavs below the second apron.

Yeah, ok, 2nd year mostly unguaranteed changes the equation quite a bit. I think the 2nds still need to come out, but the protection on the 1st is fine. Memphis is getting a guy they value at maybe half his salary and eating a small but irritating residual next year, and the Cavs are getting immediate pure cap space. A bad first sounds about right.

The Cavs aren't going part with any kind of first to dump Schroder (they've only paid off 40% of the pick debt from the Mitchell trade). There's really no need. They have other avenues for cutting salary. I don't blame the Grizzlies or their fans for wanting a first to sell their cap space, but I think someone is going to have get out over their skis on Watson for that to happen, especially for the types of contracts we're discussing here. I'm not sure his contract expectations, or the Nuggets expected return, are reasonable enough for that to happen.

If you end up paying everyone involved the desired premium, by the time you're done you have to ask yourself whether the trade still makes sense. I don't see how the answer is still yes.

[Prospect Dong]

Thank you. This is like the 10th time the minimal guaranty on his second year had been brought up in the T&T board.

The Hornets are rumored to have some interest in him, the Cavs could just stretch waive Schroder, or trade Strus.

More to the point, none of things are going to happen unless they can settle on a contract and acquisition price for either Kuminga or Watson, which as of right now don't appear any the closer to happening than they were a month ago. Absent another acquisition, there's no need to trade or release anyone as Harden is going to extend at a number that will drop the Cavs below the second apron.

Yeah, ok, 2nd year mostly unguaranteed changes the equation quite a bit. I think the 2nds still need to come out, but the protection on the 1st is fine. Memphis is getting a guy they value at maybe half his salary and eating a small but irritating residual next year, and the Cavs are getting immediate pure cap space. A bad first sounds about right.

The Cavs aren't going part with any kind of first to dump Schroder (they've only paid off 40% of the pick debt from the Mitchell trade). There's really no need. They have other avenues for cutting salary. I don't blame the Grizzlies or their fans for wanting a first to sell their cap space, but I think someone is going to have get out over their skis on Watson for that to happen, especially for the types of contracts we're discussing here. I'm not sure his contract expectations, or the Nuggets expected return, are reasonable enough for that to happen.

If you end up paying everyone involved the desired premium, by the time you're done you have to ask yourself whether the trade still makes sense. I don't see how the answer is still yes.

How else are they going to cut salary?

[mcfly1204]

Yeah, ok, 2nd year mostly unguaranteed changes the equation quite a bit. I think the 2nds still need to come out, but the protection on the 1st is fine. Memphis is getting a guy they value at maybe half his salary and eating a small but irritating residual next year, and the Cavs are getting immediate pure cap space. A bad first sounds about right.

The Cavs aren't going part with any kind of first to dump Schroder (they've only paid off 40% of the pick debt from the Mitchell trade). There's really no need. They have other avenues for cutting salary. I don't blame the Grizzlies or their fans for wanting a first to sell their cap space, but I think someone is going to have get out over their skis on Watson for that to happen, especially for the types of contracts we're discussing here. I'm not sure his contract expectations, or the Nuggets expected return, are reasonable enough for that to happen.

If you end up paying everyone involved the desired premium, by the time you're done you have to ask yourself whether the trade still makes sense. I don't see how the answer is still yes.

How else are they going to cut salary?

The simplest way is to use the stretch provision, which would cut $9M off their cap number for this season, while retaining the 1st for another deal.

[jbk1234]

Yeah, ok, 2nd year mostly unguaranteed changes the equation quite a bit. I think the 2nds still need to come out, but the protection on the 1st is fine. Memphis is getting a guy they value at maybe half his salary and eating a small but irritating residual next year, and the Cavs are getting immediate pure cap space. A bad first sounds about right.

The Cavs aren't going part with any kind of first to dump Schroder (they've only paid off 40% of the pick debt from the Mitchell trade). There's really no need. They have other avenues for cutting salary. I don't blame the Grizzlies or their fans for wanting a first to sell their cap space, but I think someone is going to have get out over their skis on Watson for that to happen, especially for the types of contracts we're discussing here. I'm not sure his contract expectations, or the Nuggets expected return, are reasonable enough for that to happen.

If you end up paying everyone involved the desired premium, by the time you're done you have to ask yourself whether the trade still makes sense. I don't see how the answer is still yes.

How else are they going to cut salary?

Harden is going to sign an extension that gets them below the 2nd apron which is all they care about in terms of cutting salary for the sake of cutting salary. If they need to cut more salary due to another trade, they can trade Strus and he has a market. If they need to cut more salary, they can trade Schroder to the Hornets who are reported to be interested in acquiring him. They could also stretch-waive Schroder.

My underlying point is that Watson is not worth trading multiple firsts (protected or otherwise), absorbing Nnaji, and paying him $20M+. If that's the cost, just don't make that trade.

[Prospect Dong]

The Cavs aren't going part with any kind of first to dump Schroder (they've only paid off 40% of the pick debt from the Mitchell trade). There's really no need. They have other avenues for cutting salary. I don't blame the Grizzlies or their fans for wanting a first to sell their cap space, but I think someone is going to have get out over their skis on Watson for that to happen, especially for the types of contracts we're discussing here. I'm not sure his contract expectations, or the Nuggets expected return, are reasonable enough for that to happen.

If you end up paying everyone involved the desired premium, by the time you're done you have to ask yourself whether the trade still makes sense. I don't see how the answer is still yes.

How else are they going to cut salary?

Harden is going to sign an extension that gets them below the 2nd apron which is all they care about in terms of cutting salary for the sake of cutting salary. If they need to cut more salary due to another trade, they can trade Strus and he has a market. If they need to cut more salary, they can trade Schroder to the Hornets who are reported to be interested in acquiring him. They could also stretch-waive Schroder.

My underlying point is that Watson is not worth trading multiple firsts (protected or otherwise), absorbing Nnaji, and paying him $20M+. If that's the cost, just don't make that trade.

The underlying point is fine, yeah. I do think "just stretch waive him" is a little dangerous for a team with no clear line of sight to a clean cap. You ought to be willing to pay something meaningful - even if it's not a protected first - for the extra option value of not having that salary on your cap for the remainder of this incarnation of the team.

I think "Shroder is more valuable than you realize because you can play him north of $4m not to play in year two" and "someone will be interested in acquiring Schroder without requiring compensation" is wildly contradictory. You have him as more than $4m overpaid - the buyout option is a big deal - but also a team interested in adding him. Maybe the Hornets place more value on him then Memphis (who I think would like him as an expiring earning +/- half his salary), but that value is going to be negative, particularly when the season is partly over. You're not ditching him for pure cap without incentive.

[jbk1234]

How else are they going to cut salary?

Harden is going to sign an extension that gets them below the 2nd apron which is all they care about in terms of cutting salary for the sake of cutting salary. If they need to cut more salary due to another trade, they can trade Strus and he has a market. If they need to cut more salary, they can trade Schroder to the Hornets who are reported to be interested in acquiring him. They could also stretch-waive Schroder.

My underlying point is that Watson is not worth trading multiple firsts (protected or otherwise), absorbing Nnaji, and paying him $20M+. If that's the cost, just don't make that trade.

The underlying point is fine, yeah. I do think "just stretch waive him" is a little dangerous for a team with no clear line of sight to a clean cap. You ought to be willing to pay something meaningful - even if it's not a protected first - for the extra option value of not having that salary on your cap for the remainder of this incarnation of the team.

I think "Shroder is more valuable than you realize because you can play him north of $4m not to play in year two" and "someone will be interested in acquiring Schroder without requiring compensation" is wildly contradictory. You have him as more than $4m overpaid - the buyout option is a big deal - but also a team interested in adding him. Maybe the Hornets place more value on him then Memphis (who I think would like him as an expiring earning +/- half his salary), but that value is going to be negative, particularly when the season is partly over. You're not ditching him for pure cap without incentive.

I would personally trade Schroder and a second because I think the Cavs need to force feed Proctor minutes to see what they have before the deadline and next summer.

[Prospect Dong]

Harden is going to sign an extension that gets them below the 2nd apron which is all they care about in terms of cutting salary for the sake of cutting salary. If they need to cut more salary due to another trade, they can trade Strus and he has a market. If they need to cut more salary, they can trade Schroder to the Hornets who are reported to be interested in acquiring him. They could also stretch-waive Schroder.

My underlying point is that Watson is not worth trading multiple firsts (protected or otherwise), absorbing Nnaji, and paying him $20M+. If that's the cost, just don't make that trade.

The underlying point is fine, yeah. I do think "just stretch waive him" is a little dangerous for a team with no clear line of sight to a clean cap. You ought to be willing to pay something meaningful - even if it's not a protected first - for the extra option value of not having that salary on your cap for the remainder of this incarnation of the team.

I think "Shroder is more valuable than you realize because you can play him north of $4m not to play in year two" and "someone will be interested in acquiring Schroder without requiring compensation" is wildly contradictory. You have him as more than $4m overpaid - the buyout option is a big deal - but also a team interested in adding him. Maybe the Hornets place more value on him then Memphis (who I think would like him as an expiring earning +/- half his salary), but that value is going to be negative, particularly when the season is partly over. You're not ditching him for pure cap without incentive.

I would personally trade Schroder and a second because I think the Cavs need to force feed Proctor minutes to see what they have before the deadline and next summer.

I don't think a random Cavs 2nd would get you out of the $4.xm in year two. If that's your ceiling, fine, just stretch him, but I would also be willing to give up more than a 2nd to avoid that as well.

Teams with cap are paying a second or two to acquire guys like Isiahs Joe and Stewart, or Wiggins. Obviously you can still ditch slightly bad money for 2nds, but I think the price is higher than it used to be, and a random (ie not especially likely to be in the 30s) 2nd doesn't buy you all that much. What are the comparable straight cost cutting deals, I guess?