Cavs regain their swagger

[Smooth32]

Trade #1 between Sacramento, Cleveland and Portland




SACRAMENTO KINGS
IN: Jarret Jack (PG); Drew Gooden (PF); Damon Jones (PG)
OUT: Mike Bibby (PG)

Why for Sacramento? With the Mike Bibby rumors constantly circling, you have to think that at one point he will be traded... With the Kings not in contention this year and probably not next year, Bibby will likely leave as a free agent, so getting what the Kings can, would be wise... Getting a package of Drew Gooden, Jarret Jack and Damon Jones is pretty solid value as they get two positions of need in PF and PG and get two young, solid players at each position to start (maybe) rebuilding...

[PG] Jarret Jack / Beno Udrih / Damon Jones
[SG] Kevin Martin / John Salmons / Quincy Douby
[SF] Ron Artest / Francisco Garcia / Dahntay Jones
[PF] Drew Gooden / Kenny Thomas / Justin Williams
[CT] Brad Miller / Spencer Hawes / Mikki Moore

IR: Shareef-Abdur Rahim
Released: Orien Greene and Darryl Watkins




CLEVELAND CAVALIERS
IN: Mike Bibby (PG); Darius Miles (SF); Channing Frye (PF/CT)
OUT: Damon Jones (PG); Eric Snow (PG); Shannon Brown (SG); Drew Gooden (PF); Cedric Simmons (PF/CT)

Why for Cleveland? Well, it's pretty obvious why they do this... They get their PG and legit scorer to put next to LeBron without having to give up players like Anderson Varejao and Daniel Gibson... They also get a nice replacement piece for Gooden in Channing Frye... Even though they take on Darius Miles contract, he would likely be bought out...




PORTLAND TRAILBLAZERS
IN: Eric Snow (PG); Shannon Brown (SG); Cedric Simmons (PF/CT)
OUT: Jarret Jack (PG); Channing Frye (PF/CT); Darius Miles (SF)

Why for Portland? I personally think this isn't too good of a deal for the Blazers, but some Portland fans think that something along these lines are half-decent; I curious to see Portland fans reactions... While they do give up some nice players in Jack and Frye, they attain two huge goals: get a nice size expiring next year in Snow and get rid of Miles and his contract... In the process they also pick up some nice prospects in Simmons and Brown... Don't forget Simmons 1.5 mil contract will expire next year too, totaling the expirings next year to 9 million... I also think that a veteran like Snow, will have a huge impact on a young Portland team... It's hard to let a player like him go, as a Cleveland fan because of what he brought to the game on and off the court...

[PG] Steve Blake / Sergio Rodriguez / Eric Snow / Taurean Green
[SG] Brandon Roy / James Jones / Shannon Brown
[SF] Martell Webster / Travis Outlaw
[PF] LaMarcus Aldridge / Josh McRoberts
[CT] Joel Pryzbilla / Raef LaFrentz / Cedric Simmons

IR: Greg Oden



Trade #2 between Cleveland and Washington




WASHINGTON WIZARDS
IN: Larry Hughes
OUT: 2nd Round pick; DeShawn Stevenson; Etan Thomas

Why for Washington? While Hughes does have an injury history and he doesn't have the best contract, he fit best into Washington with Gilbert & Co. To get Larry back to Washington with the current lineup, would be deadly with the great 1,2,3,4 combo the Wizards would have as well as being a nice defensive team with good individual defensive players...

[PG] Gilbert Arenas / Antonio Daniels / Roger Mason
[SG] Larry Hughes / Nick Young
[SF] Caron Butler / Oleksiy Percherov / Dominic McGuire
[PF] Antawn Jamison / Darius Songaila
[CT] Brendan Haywood / Andray Blatche




CLEVELAND CAVALIERS
IN: DeShawn Stevenson (SG); Etan Thomas (CT); 2nd round pickd
OUT: Larry Hughes (G)

Why for Cleveland? Getting rid of Hughes for some kinda of value is great, even though Stevenson is playing a whole lot better, he's younger and has a better contract... Thomas, when/if he plays, would be a nice addition.. A 1st would be nice, but I don't know if the Wiz would accept...


FINAL CLEVELAND CAVALIER ROSTER

[PG] Mike Bibby / Daniel Gibson
[SG] DeShawn Stevenson / Sasha Pavlovic
[SF] LeBron James / Devin Brown / Ira Newble
[PF] Anderson Varejao / Donyell Marshall / Dwayne Jones
[CT] Zydrunas Ilgauskas / Channing Frye

I really, really like this team as they are well-balanced on both ends as well as very versatile... LeBron finally gets some well needed help without depleting the overall youth of the team... The Cavs also get a lot of bad contracts off their hands and get some friendly contracts, whose players produce well... The best thing about this team, is that they are a legit 10 deep...

Sidenote: Would Washington be willing to give a lotto-protected 1st instead of a 2nd? I don't know how Wiz fans will react to that... I personally am a little hesitant since Stevenson is a decent player, Thomas won't play this year (IIRC) and Hughes is a great fit in Washington...

Fire away!

[VintaGe36]

This looks pretty decent IMO.

maybe pick exchange here and there, but it looks fair.

[KF10]

When you state that "Bibby will likely leave as a free agent" is false because Bibby clearly stated that he will NOT opt out of his contract...Realistically, no one will opt out of that huge contract IMO... So, that logic is flawed IMO...

We will not trade Bibby when he is injured or when he is healthy because Theus and Petrie is high on him to play a high level... IMO everybody have to be in a "wait and see" mode if Bibby truly merit high/low value.

[LeQuitterNotMVP]

The Cavs are too weak in the post after these trades. I also think the Kings get a little too much.

[Smooth32]

When you state that "Bibby will likely leave as a free agent" is false because Bibby clearly stated that he will NOT opt out of his contract...Realistically, no one will opt out of that huge contract IMO... So, that logic is flawed IMO...

I didn't mention after anything about him opting out...I meant after his contract is over, including the option year, in 08/09 (IIRC)...

We will not trade Bibby when he is injured or when he is healthy because Theus and Petrie is high on him to play a high level... IMO everybody have to be in a "wait and see" mode if Bibby truly merit high/low value.

Obviously, this would be after he is healthy...

You don't think this would be good value for him? While some Kings fans think they'll get a ton for him, they simply won't... I'm not saying they'll get a great deal, but just take a look in the past trades that involved stars and what they got back...

[fishercob]

Wizards don't make that trade. There's been much discussion of acquiring Hughes on the Wiz board, and the prevailing opinion seems to be that the only way we'd want him is if he were bought out and re-signed to a reasonable contract.

He just takes up too large a chunk of the salary tax/lux tax pool to justify his production and injury proneness -- even in Washington where he thrived.

FWIW, I also don't think the Wiz are in a rush to unload Stevenson, who is starting to show some Bowen-like tendencies. He's got a ways to go, but if he can grow into that role (shutdown perimeter defender who can make open J's), he would be exactly what the Wizards hope of him.

[Smooth32]

The Cavs are too weak in the post after these trades. I also think the Kings get a little too much.

How? We have a nice 4 man rotation of Z, Varejao, Frye and Marshall... All I basically did is subtract Simmons (doesn't get minutes anyway) and Gooden for Frye...

Gooden has 15.5 P/40 and 11.1 R/40, with a PER of 13.84...

Frye has 16.3 P/40 and 9.7 R/40, with a 15.54...

To me that's an upgrade considering, Frye can play 2 positions, is younger and is making 3x less money than Gooden...

Kings get the right amount, if not enough for Bibby... Maybe a pick or prospect, but I think it's pretty close IMHO...

[LeQuitterNotMVP]

[quote="Smooth32"][/quote]Well, I wouldn't consider Marshall part of the rotation, he's not exactly a good contributor anymore.

The post isn't terrible, at least not as bad as other trades where we send out Gooden and get noone in return. I'm just not confident in a Frye/Varejao/Z frontcourt. Not much D or toughness.

[KF10]

-= original quote snipped =-



Obviously, this would be after he is healthy...

You don't think this would be good value for him? While some Kings fans think they'll get a ton for him, they simply won't... I'm not saying they'll get a great deal, but just take a look in the past trades that involved stars and what they got back...

Im ok that if Bibby leaves as a FA because one we will get a whooping 15 mill expiring contract and two it fits in our GM's plans of 2009...Either way, its to our benefit really...

Again, we are not looking to trade him... When Bibby is healthy and producing to his regular allstar level, we will get a better deal than this...

[VintaGe36]

^From who though?

MIA and CLE are the two main teams intrested in Bibby, I can't see CLE giving up more than this, and by the time Bibby is back and playing well, IMO MIA's season could be a lost cause.

[KF10]

^From who though?

MIA and CLE are the two main teams intrested in Bibby, I can't see CLE giving up more than this, and by the time Bibby is back and playing well, IMO MIA's season could be a lost cause.

Assuming that when Bibby is healthy and producing his numbers there will be several teams will be interested in him... If an injured Bibby were attracted to these teams, think of a healthy Bibby attracts...

[VintaGe36]

^Yeah, but you have to look at Bibby, a scoring PG who could help a fringe team make it over the hump.

MIA,CLE.....Then, im drawing blanks. A healthy Bibby hypothetically would mean more offers, but I dont see a bigger market for Bibby, than there already is.

[Smooth32]

Well, I wouldn't consider Marshall part of the rotation, he's not exactly a good contributor anymore.

He's a good 4th big, period.

The post isn't terrible, at least not as bad as other trades where we send out Gooden and get noone in return. I'm just not confident in a Frye/Varejao/Z frontcourt. Not much D or toughness.

Gooden didn't bring D or toughness either, BTW...

Your not giving those 3 guys enough credit for their defense:

Ilgauskas
Opp PER (C): 15.8
Defense +/-: -0.6

Varejao
Opp PER (C): 11
Opp PER (PF): 14.9
Defense +/-: -8.2

Frye
Opp PER (C): 9.6
Opp PER (PF): 22.9
Defense +/-: +2.4

Compared to Gooden:
Opp PER (C): 24.6
Opp PER (PF): 17.1
Defense +/-: +0.9

I'd say Gooden and Frye are equal defenders... Thing is, Frye isn't as dumb as Drew, and I'll take that...

Here's my thing: what big man, realistically, do you expect to get in return when we send out Gooden? This is about as good as it gets, considering what we give up and get back... It's better than Zach Randolph...

I don't see how you don't have confidence... What's not to like?

[Flash is the Future]

Umm, no. These teams are obviously only interested in dealing for a healthy Bibby.

[Smooth32]

Im ok that if Bibby leaves as a FA because one we will get a whooping 15 mill expiring contract and two it fits in our GM's plans of 2009...Either way, its to our benefit really...

It's actually, 14.5 on the dot...

Gooden, Jones and Jack all expire at the same time, right when Bibby expires and equal around 14 mil..

So yea, you still have that cap space in the same year...

[KF10]

^Yeah, but you have to look at Bibby, a scoring PG who could help a fringe team make it over the hump.

MIA,CLE.....Then, im drawing blanks. A healthy Bibby hypothetically would mean more offers, but I dont see a bigger market for Bibby, than there already is.

That's is why we wait and see IMO... My GM is not dumb enough to rush any trades regarding Bibby or Artest.... We wait patiently and see what we have, if he doesnt like the trades that is presented to him. We keep Bibby until 2009 (Which fits in Petrie's plans)

[VintaGe36]

^Thats all reasonable, but I have a problem with you saying the market will increase with a healthy Bibby, I COMPLETELY disagree, what teams will suddenly want Bibby in your opinion?

[KF10]

-= original quote snipped =-



It's actually, 14.5 on the dot...

Gooden, Jones and Jack all expire at the same time, right when Bibby expires and equal around 14 mil..

So yea, you still have that cap space in the same year...

But the question is that those players really warrant a type of player like a healthy Bibby? (We know that there is no chance that we will trade Bibby currently injured) IMO no they do not...

[KF10]

^Thats all reasonable, but I have a problem with you saying the market will increase with a healthy Bibby, I COMPLETELY disagree, what teams will suddenly want Bibby in your opinion?

Umm, teams that want to go over the hump or teams that are weak at PG? Truly, you cant predict that IMO There is various factors that could manipulate the situation IMO...

[VintaGe36]

Thats what I said, and THIS season, the only teams that are in that situation who could use a Scoring PG like Bibby, are MIA and CLE.

Im curious as to what you think the "various factors" are.