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YES! SIZE RULES! OK, I know 20-player trades don't happen everyday, but this is a Trades Forum. What would it be without an overly ambitious ecuhus1981 proposal?! Try not ot take it too seriously, but feel free to evaluate the value and see if it strikes a chord.

Trade ID #4380821

Chicago Trade Breakdown
Incoming Players: Awvee Storey, Michael Ruffin, Dan Gadzuric, Maurice Williams, Bobby Simmons, Ronnie Price, Mehmet Okur, Andrei Kirilenko
Outgoing Players: Adrian Griffin, Thabo Sefolosha, Viktor Khryapa, Chris Duhon, Joe Smith, Andres Nocioni, Kirk Hinrich, Ben Wallace
Now all they need is Pippen to coach! CHI revamps its lineup in order to add an inside scorer, while maintaining their core of youth.
Williams, Gordon, Deng, Kirilenko, Okur
Price, Simmons, Thomas, Noah, Gray



Milwaukee Trade Breakdown
Incoming Players: Adrian Griffin, Viktor Khryapa, Andres Nocioni, Kirk Hinrich, Ben Wallace, Morris Almond
Outgoing Players: Awvee Storey, Michael Ruffin, Charlie Bell, Andrew Bogut, Desmond Mason, Dan Gadzuric, Maurice Williams, Bobby Simmons
MIL remedies some of its long-term cap issues, while adding three defensive starters to allow Redd, CV and Yi to do what they do best: score. They also bring in an heir apparent for Redd in Almond.
Hinrich, Redd, Nocioni, Jianlian, Wallace
Ivey, Almond, Khryapa, Villanueva, Voskuhl



Utah Trade Breakdown
Incoming Players: Thabo Sefolosha, Chris Duhon, Joe Smith, Charlie Bell, Andrew Bogut, Desmond Mason
Outgoing Players: Morris Almond, Ronnie Price, Mehmet Okur, Andrei Kirilenko
UTA rebuilds its supporting cast, to accentuate roleplaying and athleticism.
Williams, Brewer, Harpring, Boozer, Bogut
Duhon, Bell, Mason, Thomas, Millsap

Yeah we really want another slasher in Mason to replace Korver who we just traded for. Bad trade too much to handle for all teams. well i really only looked at utah's side.

Korver's a slasher?!

ecuhus1981 wrote:Korver's a slasher?!

Im saying we dont want another slasher like Brewer manning the backup SF.

You could've cut this trade down by about 5 players at least.

^

Actually, the CBA won't allow a much different outcome, for exactly what I wanted to accomplish with this deal, with all the BYC players. Normally, that would be a signal to sane trademakers to forget it and try something else, but I take is as a challenge!

I would be happy to see a scaled-down version of this trade, if you feel up to offering one.

My complicated vision of this trade was as follows:

For CHI - Get more natural scorers, who fit a freer style of offense. Attaining this, without using Deng/Gordon/Thomas/Noah as bait, meant taking on longer contracts. So, I tried to find a team that could use the players I had targeted to trade (Hinrich, Nocioni and Wallace), and had negative salary to send back in fair exchange for Big Ben. That brought me to...

MIL - Mo Williams had a career year in '06-'07, partly because his strengths were put to better use with Redd out. He and Michael have managed to coexist, but he would be better suited not having to defer. In Hinrich (Happy B-Day, Kirk!), MIL gets a full-sized unselfish PG with excellence defense, an ideal backcourt mate for Redd. Nocioni solves the SF timshare, and with starter's minutes, he can easily attain solid stats across the board, along with his scrappy D and winner's mentality. Wallace would free the Bucks' young PFs to operate in the paint, the high-post or from long-range, because he can control the lane on his own. Unfortunately, it costs the Bucks their budding C, Bogut. But I think the price is fair, and the improvement would be marked.

UTA - It's clear that AK47 and Okur seem to be the odd men out in Utah. They're certainly not just going to GIVE them away; the trade situation would have to be right for both the giving and receiving parites. In this trade, Andrei gets to return to the PF position, and has a willing disciple in Tyrus to teach. Okur is allowed to be THE post scorer in CHI, and the Jazz get long-term cap relief plus better fits for their system with Bogut, Duhon and Bell. Whereas Okur wilted when he wasn't scorching the scorign column, Bogut could thrive in a system where he doesn't have the pressure of being the #1 option "down-under".

That doesn't sound so complicated, does it? Truthfully, I wish some of the smaller-contract players could've been eliminated from this deal. Some like Thabo and Morris were included to balance out the value. But a couple were just salary filler to make it work; I imagine guys like Storey could be waived and return to their original teams.

Are you Crazy! No for the Bucks!

ecuhus1981 wrote:UTA - It's clear that AK47 and Okur seem to be the odd men out in Utah.

It is? Where does this come from? AK is playing great for us.

BankIt wrote:Are you Crazy! No for the Bucks!

I'm not crazy. You may not like Wallace's deal, but he gives better production than Gadz, Bell and Simmons, and Bell's and Gadz' deals last longer than Ben's. So you actually SAVE $ for more production. No-brainer, the value swings heavily in MIL's favor for this portion of the deal.

Kirk at his best is better than Mo; that said, right now the swap for these two is a raw deal for MIL, I know. Almond is there to shore up any percieved value loss, and I think he does. Don't you think you would compete better with a PG that defends better and will feed Redd more than take shots away from him? IDK, maybe Andrew can Google that answer for you...

Nocioni and Bogut are the major parts left, but looking at the whole picture ($, fit etc.), MIL gets a fair shake and is built for success.

loserX wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



It is? Where does this come from? AK is playing great for us.

Deron, Ronnie and Carlos play very well together as a threesome. Okur and Andrei may or may not put up good stats around the triumvirate from week to week; but it seems clear to me that any long-term alteration to the lineup is 10X more likely to come at AK's and MO's expense. UTA would be foolish to break apart their real core (Williams, Brewer, Boozer) now.

How do you feel about the value in this trade?

I like this deal for my team a lot, the Bulls. We get rid of Wallace, but replace his bad contract for a bad contract in a place we actually need help at in Bobby Simmons. I like getting Kirilenko and Okur and Williams. Fine by me. The only problem i have is that Gordon is still on the team, and i dont think he would work well with Williams. Maybe trading Gordon for a taller SG like a Mike Miller would be good for if Simmons goes down.

I dont know if Id do it for the Bucks. Wallaces' contract kills it for me. Wouldnt be totally unhappy if it happened though. Hinrich would be nice, but at the expense of Bogut and Mo?

Terrible for Utah, just terrible....

ecuhus1981 wrote:Utah Trade Breakdown
Incoming Players: Thabo Sefolosha, Chris Duhon, Joe Smith, Charlie Bell, Andrew Bogut, Desmond Mason
Outgoing Players: Morris Almond, Ronnie Price, Mehmet Okur, Andrei Kirilenko
UTA rebuilds its supporting cast, to accentuate roleplaying and athleticism.
Williams, Brewer, Harpring, Boozer, Bogut
Duhon, Bell, Mason, Thomas, Millsap

Who is Thomas?

Jazz trade two starters for one, drop defensively but get a lot of decent to above average bench players. I like Duhon, Bell, and Mason but Bell and Mason serve the same purpose as Korver who we just aquired making that part of the trade pointless from the Jazz side. The loss of AK's defense as a SF is so disturbing to opposing teams and while Bogut is a much better defender then Okur it's not enough IMO. Jazz pass on this trade but it's creative and pretty well thought out.

Bulls say no

I would not do this trade for Milwaukee it does nothing to help us long term. Ben Wallace is coming near the end we are a team looking towards the future. The team that we would have would only last a year or two then Wallace really declines and yeah not worth losing Bogut for that. Cap space means nothing if there is no one would sign to come to Milwaukee without overpaying them.