DAL/GS/CLE

[Darren]

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Terry> Biedrins? You could offer Terry+ Howard + Diop to GSW and still would not get Biedrins. Howard? We are okay at SF and Howard is no PF.
Warriors minus Baron + Biedrins would be like Memphis minus Gasol,just another sub-500 team.

This is absurd for GSW..downgrade key spots for what? To start over?

I seriously doubt it's true. Biedrins can only play for GSW and PHX right now. No other coaches want small ball forever. His value is not particularly high on any conventional team. For the same contract, I'd rather have Varejao than Biedrins.

Josh Howard alone is obviously worth more than him. He's nowhere close to Amare, Bosh, or even Boozer's level as a small center. His skillsets is quite limited.

Taken value aside, it's still suck. 3 frontcourts player + 1 backcourt for 2 backcourt + 1 frontcourt??? This does nothing for neither team.

[Realmavsman]

It is unbelievable how much G.S. fans overate Biedrens. There is nothing wrong with the guy but the reason he leads the league in FG% is because all he can do is shoot layups and dunk. The guy is not a real Center on any team that does not play small ball. And his rebounding numbers are higher than they would be on most teams because of the style of play the Warriors use. I just don't think he going to ever be much more than what he is right now. Nothing wrong with a 10/10 guy who is long but spare me the idea that he is going to blossom into some NBA superstar.

[Realmavsman]

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Terry> Biedrins? You could offer Terry+ Howard + Diop to GSW and still would not get Biedrins.

This has to be one of the dumbest things I have ever read on realgm. Howard is an NBA All-Star and would be the 2nd best player on the Warriors team only behind Baron Davis.

[mistatwo mayn]

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This has to be one of the dumbest things I have ever read on realgm. Howard is an NBA All-Star and would be the 2nd best player on the Warriors team only behind Baron Davis.

Would he play center? then the **** up. Good lord, and the whole time I thought Mav fans were reasonable. Don't come out here with that B.S.

[Rand10]

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Would he play center? then the **** up. Good lord, and the whole time I thought Mav fans were reasonable. Don't come out here with that B.S.

You've got to be kidding. Diop would play center. If you wouldn't trade Biedrins for Terry, Howard, and Diop you are the biggest homer I've ever seen.

[Realmavsman]

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Would he play center? then the **** up. Good lord, and the whole time I thought Mav fans were reasonable. Don't come out here with that B.S.

Diop would play center you moron. The idiot came on this board actually said that Golden State would not trade Biedrens for Josh Howard, Jason Terry and Diop.

That's as idiotic as the Mavs saying we wouldn't trade Brandon Bass for Al Harrington and Stephen Jackson because they already have Josh Howard and Jerry Stackhouse at those positions.

It does not take a genius to figure out that if you have a chance to improve the talent on your team you would do it. You can always make further trades to get the right mix of positions.

[St.Nick]

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Diop would play center you moron. The idiot came on this board actually said that Golden State would not trade Biedrens for Josh Howard, Jason Terry and Diop.

That's as idiotic as the Mavs saying we wouldn't trade Brandon Bass for Al Harrington and Stephen Jackson because they already have Josh Howard and Jerry Stackhouse at those positions.

It does not take a genius to figure out that if you have a chance to improve the talent on your team you would do it. You can always make further trades to get the right mix of positions.

Ok, we'll trade you Al Harrington, Matt Barnes, Patrick O'Bryant, and Marco Belinelli for Josh Howard.

You get extra talent at SF/PF and two young prospects.

You can't deny it, since you'd be able to improve the talent on your team...obviously four players is better than only one good one.

Simple.

[Darren]

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Ok, we'll trade you Al Harrington, Matt Barnes, Patrick O'Bryant, and Marco Belinelli for Josh Howard.

You get extra talent at SF/PF and two young prospects.

You can't deny it, since you'd be able to improve the talent on your team...obviously four players is better than only one good one.

Simple.

When you're talking champ, it's not about improve the talent on your team...but elite who can compete with those players in elite status. Those 4 players doesn't help. Knowing Avery, I doubt they'd get serious playing time in Dallas.

[Realmavsman]

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Ok, we'll trade you Al Harrington, Matt Barnes, Patrick O'Bryant, and Marco Belinelli for Josh Howard.

You get extra talent at SF/PF and two young prospects.

You can't deny it, since you'd be able to improve the talent on your team...obviously four players is better than only one good one.

Simple.

Maybe in your simple mind. Josh Howard is the best player in the deal and is worth more than all four of them. Obviously you missed the point but why doesn't that surprise me. Trading Howard, Terry and Diop for Biedrens is idiotic because Howard is the best player in the deal by a mile, not because it is 3 guys against one.

[St.Nick]

And how many Centers can the Warriors throw in there who can grab 10 rpg, not demand shots, be a big defensive presence, AND run the floor with the team? Diop sure ain't gonna cut it.

Plus, we've already got Stephen Jackson at SF so the desire to add Howard, even if he is the more productive player in comparison to Biedrins, does nothing to help us win. It'd be like the Lakers trading Bynum for Michael Redd.

Anyways, this is a stupid thing to argue about. Neither of our teams would do this deal for pretty obvious reasons.

[turk3d]

It is unbelievable how much G.S. fans overate Biedrens. There is nothing wrong with the guy but the reason he leads the league in FG% is because all he can do is shoot layups and dunk.

Wow. This is one of the dumbest statements I have ever heard before. You're going to tell me that because he scores his points inside that lessens the fact that he has the highest shooting % in the league? Shaq, who led the league in field goal % 9 times, how many outside shots did he take? In those 9 seasons, he only shot 60% or over twice, once in 2004 with Miami (60.1%) and in 2005 (60.0%). High % shooting is indicative of efficiency and good shot selection. What about Wilt? What about Dwight Howard today? A smart player will always prefer to take the ball to the basket (see Dwayne Wade). Everyone overates their players to a certain degree (Mavs fans not withstanding) but the guy is only going to get better and we wouldn't trade him straight up for anyone on your team and that includes your "MVP" Dirk who I would consider before Howard. NO ONE trades a promising young Center for a wing player unless he's Lebron.

The guy is not a real Center on any team that does not play small ball. And his rebounding numbers are higher than they would be on most teams because of the style of play the Warriors use. I just don't think he going to ever be much more than what he is right now. Nothing wrong with a 10/10 guy who is long but spare me the idea that he is going to blossom into some NBA superstar.

Another ridiculous statement. Averaging 10.5 rebounds per game at only 28 minutes (translates to about 15 per 40 minutes, 7 foot tall and about 245 and still growing how can you say that? And to say it's because of the Warriors style of play, how's that? With no real power forward to help him out, and the Warriors run and gun style, he's practically the only one out there crashing the boards the majority of the time banging with guys much more physcially mature than he is. Wait another few years and then we'll see. In addition, he has a fruitcake coach who would rather play a bunch of midgets out there than a legitimate big man. Not like some of those other 7 footers (you have one of your own in Dirk) like Bosh, Garnett and Duncan (with the exception of Duncan maybe) who prefer to stand on the outside because they're too sissy to get in there and bang with the big boys where they belong. and would prefer to shoot over guys who are a foot shorter than they are. Biedrens nevers complains one bit even though some of those guys outweigh him by 40 pounds.

I seriously doubt it's true. Biedrins can only play for GSW and PHX right now. No other coaches want small ball forever. His value is not particularly high on any conventional team. For the same contract, I'd rather have Varejao than Biedrins.

That's a laugh. Many say that what one of the major stumbling blocks for the Warriors in dealing with Minnesota for Garnett was their unwillingness (and Minnesota's desire) to have Biedrins as part of the deal. This shows you how valuable he is to the Warriors. How many teams are out there who would love to have him if they had the opportunity to get him we'll find out for sure after the season's over when he becomes a RFA. When you say you you'd rather have Varejao, that just shows your ignorance. Anyone could have had Varejao while he was a free agent, but how many made any offers and how long did it take before some one did and what were they willling to give up for him in trade to Cleveland? lol.

Josh Howard alone is obviously worth more than him. He's nowhere close to Amare, Bosh, or even Boozer's level as a small center. His skillsets is quite limited.

If you had a team with a top 10 Center and a need for a small forward and had a choice between Josh and Biedrens, maybe you take Josh and even then I'm not sure, but if you are in the market for a top flight Center, there's no doubt in my mind that you'd go for Andris. So yes, there might be a few teams out there that would prefer Josh (outside of Dallas maybe) because of their positional needs, but the majority would go for the big man. That's just the way the NBA allways has been. Whenever there's what you percieve to be a "good" big man available, you take him, ask Damp. I suppose you're going to tell me Terry is better too.

[Realmavsman]

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Wow. This is one of the dumbest statements I have ever heard before. You're going to tell me that because he scores his points inside that lessens the fact that he has the highest shooting % in the league? Shaq, who led the league in field goal % 9 times, how many outside shots did he take? In those 9 seasons, he only shot 60% or over twice, once in 2004 with Miami (60.1%) and in 2005 (60.0%). High % shooting is indicative of efficiency and good shot selection. What about Wilt? What about Dwight Howard today? A smart player will always prefer to take the ball to the basket (see Dwayne Wade). Everyone overates their players to a certain degree (Mavs fans not withstanding) but the guy is only going to get better and we wouldn't trade him straight up for anyone on your team and that includes your "MVP" Dirk who I would consider before Howard. NO ONE trades a promising young Center for a wing player unless he's Lebron.

Is it really that hard to understand? If all your shots are from two feet and in then you are going to have a high shooting percentage. On a team like the Warriors who have 4 other guys who are dangerous scorers Biedrens is going to get even more freebies because he is the 1st person that the defense is going to leave to help out. And you are actually going to compare him to Shaq in this regard? Here is the big difference. Nobody is going to dump the ball down to Biedrens and let him work on his man to score. He gets all the junk baskets. Follow up dunks, easy layups because his man is coming over to help or easy baskets on the fast break. His scoring is nothing like Shaq's where they dump the ball down to him and he often has to fight through double and triple teams to get a shot off. Everyone of the guys you mentioned are actually offensive weapons that team are trying to stop. Beidren is not and never will be that type of player. So I am not impressed with his high shooting percentage. Diop shoots 56% from the floor and he is a terrible offensive player. The reason is because he gets all the same type of junk that Biedrens gets. Big freaking deal.

And sorry you lost all credibility (as if you had any anyway) when you state that you would not trade Biedrens for even Dirk. In fact you should have your head examined. And not by a single doctor. No, you need a team of doctors working 24 hours a day on your noggin.

[$*DIPSET BOI*$]

LMAO @ Terry > Biedrins. How could you even compare a tweener guard to a big man? Unless you mean value wise and if you do, somebody needs to lay off the cigaweed.

[turk3d]

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If all your shots are from two feet and in then you are going to have a high shooting percentage.

Wrong. There's a lot of guys who can only shoot inside and have bad shooting percentages too. There's also a lot of big guys who shoot mostly inside and don't have the highest percentage in the league.

On a team like the Warriors who have 4 other guys who are dangerous scorers Biedrens is going to get even more freebies because he is the 1st person that the defense is going to leave to help out.

Wrong again. If you followed the Warriors much (all you have to do is look at his stats if you weren't so ignorant) you'd know that a third of the Warriors shots are 3 pointers and most of those guys are chuckers. If they were willing to get the ball to Biedrins, he'd get significantly more shots. The Warriors are a jumpshooting team, and even there coach endorses long range chucking otherwise he would be giving Biedrins more minutes. He's excellent on the pick and roll and a lot of the fans wish that they would run more plays for him.

And you are actually going to compare him to Shaq in this regard?

. Yes I am, in regard to his shooting %. what we're talking about isn't it? You are trying to trivialize the fact that he has the highest shooting percent in the league. I'm just pointing out to you that it's not to be trivialized. Sure he's not Shaq (he weighs about 80-100 pounds less and he's a couple of inches shorter so it stands to reason he can't overpower other guys inside) but he's very good and right now the most efficient shooter in the league.

Here is the big difference. Nobody is going to dump the ball down to Biedrens and let him work on his man to score. He gets all the junk baskets. Follow up dunks, easy layups because his man is coming over to help or easy baskets on the fast break. His scoring is nothing like Shaq's where they dump the ball down to him and he often has to fight through double and triple teams to get a shot off.

You shoot 60% from the field what difference does it make on how you do it? Because Shaq overpowers people, it makes his more difficult? If anything it makes it easier since he's so much bigger and heavier than everyone who tries to guard him. Biedrins score his baskets on speed and quickness. Does that discount what he does? By your reasoning if a guy led the league in scoring and he shot in close it would take a way from his accomplishments. Balderdash.

Everyone of the guys you mentioned are actually offensive weapons that team are trying to stop. Beidren is not and never will be that type of player. So I am not impressed with his high shooting percentage. Diop shoots 56% from the floor and he is a terrible offensive player. The reason is because he gets all the same type of junk that Biedrens gets. Big freaking deal.

At 21, I say you're talking out your rear end. There's no telling how good he's going to be. You're right about Diop, all his baskets come from slop and he'll never be any better than he is now, likely a journeyman backup. And btw, any good big man will be getting his share of what you term "garbage baskets.

And sorry you lost all credibility (as if you had any anyway) when you state that you would not trade Biedrens for even Dirk. In fact you should have your head examined. And not by a single doctor. No, you need a team of doctors working 24 hours a day on your noggin.

Amongst some of your bad traits you seem to also have a reading comprehension problem. Here's the quote to which you refer:

Everyone overates their players to a certain degree (Mavs fans not withstanding) but the guy is only going to get better and we wouldn't trade him straight up for anyone on your team and that includes your "MVP" Dirk who I would consider before Howard. NO ONE trades a promising young Center for a wing player unless he's Lebron.

I stick by the above statement

I said I would consider Dirk but wouldn't do it. Why? Because we already KNOW that a Dirk led team will never win a championship. Teams which win Championships 90% of the time will have a solid Center which Biedrens, who is already good, has a chance to become.

[JES12]

See, I told you 2 pages ago to "/thread"

This trade sucks to begin with. Maybe for all teams, but I know it does for Dallas. Bierdens is only wanted in Golden State and Dampier is only wanted in Dallas. Most other players "fit" in with their currrent team and with their current coach.

This thread is just terrible.

[turk3d]

That's what happens sometimes when people post ridiculous/$hitty trades.

[Darren]

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If you had a team with a top 10 Center and a need for a small forward and had a choice between Josh and Biedrens, maybe you take Josh and even then I'm not sure, but if you are in the market for a top flight Center, there's no doubt in my mind that you'd go for Andris. So yes, there might be a few teams out there that would prefer Josh (outside of Dallas maybe) because of their positional needs, but the majority would go for the big man. That's just the way the NBA allways has been. Whenever there's what you percieve to be a "good" big man available, you take him, ask Damp. I suppose you're going to tell me Terry is better too.

At 6-8, he's never a center if not invented by Neille. He can only play for running team. No team is willing to change their style unless for a star player or anywhere close. The Mavs is not building for one style but for mulitiple style. Biedrens doesn't help that much on this regard.

Josh Howard is an all-star. If the guy cannot get a spot in all-star game. I doubt if they can be a top-10 in the position. Not to say, he's not even on NBA third-team. Elite center? Sorry, I don't think so.

Biedrens can run and rebound. He gets most of them with altheticism. But he's skinny and cannot bang up with muscled big. We don't consider him a top 10.

Clearly better - Dwlight Howard, Tim Duncan, Tyson Chandler, Yao Ming, Amare Stoudemire, Jamiane O'Neal, Chris Kaman, Chris Bosh

Better when healthy - Greg Oden, Shaquille O'Neal, Alonzo Mourning

About the Same Level - Darko Milicic, Brandon Haywood, Big Z, Erick Dampier, Samuel Dalembert, Ben Wallace, Andrew Bynum (on the rise), Andrew Bogut, Mehemet Okur, Okafor

How can you even say the guy is a top-10?

[St.Nick]

Those rankings are ridiculous.

I can agree with your "clearly better" list, except for Jermaine O'Neal. The guy is in a free fall and is not close to being elite anymore. I'd take Andris over him any day of the week (until he can raise his fg% over 44% and average more than 15.9ppg/7.6rpg for his $64M over the next three seasons).

The better when healthy list is completely off....Greg Oden needs to play an NBA game first, smart guy. That's like me saying that OJ Mayo is better than Josh Howard....also Shaq and Zo are not only less productive than Andris but their value is much, much lower for obvious reasons that I do not need to state.

And regarding your "on the same level" list, aside from Bynum none of those guys are producing like Andris and none of them are on winning teams like Andris. Okafor can be considered on the same level and I actually like Bogut (not as much as Andris) but the rest are clearly less talented, older, totally overpaid, and not contributing to wins like Andris is.

Take off the hate blinders and try using logic. It will improve your argument.

[Ukraine Train]

This trade makes zero sense for the W's. Why would they ever consider
dealing Baron when he is playing at All star level? Why would they trade
Biedrins who is their only good big man? Think before you post stupid trades like this!