Facilitating Mike Bibby to Cleveland

warren weel im · Post #1 » by **warren weel im** » Mon Jan 7, 2008 6:10 am

Bibby to Cleveland has been rumored since last year. With the 2 teams ever willing to cut a deal - one to bolster its bid and defend the East title, the other one wants to cut some salary to speeden the rebuilding process.

Yet in all of Cleveland's purported assets, Marshall, Snow and Damon Jones all end in 2009 - the same as Bibby's. There would be no incentive for the Kings to do the said deal since it would entail accepting the same amount of salary if not more. Newble is the only expiring contract in Cleveland's roster, but for some reason, Cle will not trade him if it did not mean a sure star was coming back. For Bibby, they MIGHT do it. But Sacramento would only have 3m expiring as their incentive. That would NOT be enough...

The Lakers have been playing well as of late. We will continue to do so in the next 5 games since it involves a relatively easy schedule just before our February road trip sets in.

What if the Lakers offered Kwame Brown's expiring to Sacramento to "help" Cleveland land Mike Bibby? We would then have too look for the incentive for LA to do it since it involves treading into luxury tax next year. If anything, LA still has to re-up Ronny Turiaf and Sasha to some extent to round up the roster. LA can still get Kwame after being waived by Sacto next year thru a portion of the MLE is we felt we needed his services on defense down low.

How would my proposed deal look like? It has to start with Gooden going to the Lakers.

Sacramento trades: Mike Bibby, Shareef Abdur-Rahim
receives: Damon Jones, Donyell Marshall, Kwame Brown, CLe 08 1st

LA trades: Kwame Brown, Vladimir Radmanovic
receives: Drew Gooden, Eric Snow

CLE trades: Damon Jones, Donyell Marshall, Drew Gooden, Eric Snow
receives: Mike Bibby, Vladimir Radmanovic

CLeveland takes on more committed salary but same in terms of 1 year with the exception of Rahim's contract (1yr) and Radman's (2yrs). They have no committed salary past 2010 in LeBron's new contract so adding 6m would not hurt one bit.

Sacramento gets rebuilding pieces to clear 9m next year and 8m the following year. Cleveland's 08 1st that is supposed to be lotto protected will also go their way in 08 or 09.

LA gets Gooden and Snow.

Bac2Basics · Post #2 » by **Bac2Basics** » Mon Jan 7, 2008 6:36 am

Any trade where the Kings end up with Eric Snow, Damon Jones or Donyell Marshall is probably going to be a no.

Any trade where the Kings get two of these players is an automatic no.

If some team wants to help make Bibby to Cleveland happen this is about the only way I see it happening.

Bibby ----> Cleveland
Cleveland's Package ----> Team 3
Team 3's Package -------> Sacramento

Translation, most of what Cleveland is willing to trade for Bibby is of little if any value to Sacramento.

SacKingZZZ · Post #3 » by **SacKingZZZ** » Mon Jan 7, 2008 6:40 am

Once again. Change Reef to Kenny. The Cavs have thrown all they have to make the deal happen and by the deadline I could see the Kings taking it if they can't get another deal they like more.

Good point on Bibby ending in '09. That is a main reason why they might not need to trade him. If they can unload Kenny Thomas they may very well take the deal though.

bullzman23 · Post #4 » by **bullzman23** » Mon Jan 7, 2008 6:45 am

If I were the Kings I'd wait on a deal. I'm not quite sure when Bibby returns, but his value is pretty low right now. If he returns before the deadline, he may be able to remind a few teams of his forgotten talent. Either way, if the Kings are willing to wait, Bibby should be twice as valuable next season as a good player with an expiring contract.

SportsFan215 · Post #5 » by **SportsFan215** » Mon Jan 7, 2008 6:50 am

How about this:

Lakers Get: Gooden/Marshall
Lakers Give: Kwame/Vujacic

Cavs Get: Bibby/Abdur-Rahim
Cavs Give: Gooden/Marshall/(Either Damon Jones or Eric Snow)

Kings Get: Kwame(exp.)/Vujacic(exp.)/(either Damon Jones or Eric Snow)
Kings Give: Bibby/Abdur-Rahim

Picks could be added if needed.

Bac2Basics · Post #6 » by **Bac2Basics** » Mon Jan 7, 2008 6:55 am

SportsFan215 wrote:How about this:

Lakers Get: Gooden/Marshall
Lakers Give: Kwame/Vujacic

Cavs Get: Bibby/Abdur-Rahim
Cavs Give: Gooden/Marshall/(Either Damon Jones or Eric Snow)

Kings Get: Kwame(exp.)/Vujacic(exp.)/(either Damon Jones or Eric Snow)
Kings Give: Bibby/Abdur-Rahim

Picks could be added if needed.

Kings are more interested in moving KT than SAR so that would be the first change.

And even then it's less than impressive.

bullzman23 · Post #7 » by **bullzman23** » Mon Jan 7, 2008 6:57 am

A question to anyone who thinks the Kings would trade Bibby for this package...How do the Kings benefit from trading Bibby now, instead of just waiting till next season?

SportsFan215 · Post #8 » by **SportsFan215** » Mon Jan 7, 2008 7:01 am

Then make it Kenny Thomas and then the Cavs would have to send back Eric Snow. The Cavs should probably add a lottery protected first to Sacto.

Lakers Get: Gooden/Marshall
Lakers Give: Kwame/Vujacic

Cavs Get: Bibby/K. Thomas
Cavs Give: Gooden/Marshall/Snow/'08 First (Lottery Protected)

Kings Get: Kwame/Vujacic/Snow/'08 First from Cavs (Lottery Protected)
Kings Give: Bibby/K. Thomas

Bac2Basics · Post #9 » by **Bac2Basics** » Mon Jan 7, 2008 7:11 am

SportsFan215 wrote:Then make it Kenny Thomas and then the Cavs would have to send back Eric Snow. The Cavs should probably add a lottery protected first to Sacto.

Lakers Get: Gooden/Marshall
Lakers Give: Kwame/Vujacic

Cavs Get: Bibby/K. Thomas
Cavs Give: Gooden/Marshall/Snow/'08 First (Lottery Protected)

Kings Get: Kwame/Vujacic/Snow/'08 First from Cavs (Lottery Protected)
Kings Give: Bibby/K. Thomas

For the rest of the crap we'd have to take in a Cav's trade, there would be absolutely no lottery protection on the pick.

DanTown8587 · Post #10 » by **DanTown8587** » Mon Jan 7, 2008 7:12 am

1) Cleveland wouldn't be able to protect that pick because Sacramento will want a chance at good pick. Maybe top three protection, but if its low lottery, they have to deal.
2) LA gets WAY to good a deal in a starting PF in Gooden and a good (albeit injured) Marshall.
3) The Kings would not want snows' terrible contract, seeing as he is half of bibby, but a fraction of the player. It would have to be Jones (only cause it two million cheaper)
4) Cleveland loses a lot of depth here. They would have to move Varajeo into the starting lineup, then they have no back up center and taking on this much money would mean almost no chance at signing Gibson this off season. The Cavs didn't offer Shannon Brown a contract for next year because they need every penny they can save, so that is the main reason I believe Bibby won't be traded there: they would rather have Gibson for half the money.

LeQuitterNotMVP · Post #11 » by **LeQuitterNotMVP** » Mon Jan 7, 2008 9:04 pm

DanTown8587 wrote:1) Cleveland wouldn't be able to protect that pick because Sacramento will want a chance at good pick. Maybe top three protection, but if its low lottery, they have to deal.
2) LA gets WAY to good a deal in a starting PF in Gooden and a good (albeit injured) Marshall.
3) The Kings would not want snows' terrible contract, seeing as he is half of bibby, but a fraction of the player. It would have to be Jones (only cause it two million cheaper)
4) Cleveland loses a lot of depth here. They would have to move Varajeo into the starting lineup, then they have no back up center and taking on this much money would mean almost no chance at signing Gibson this off season. The Cavs didn't offer Shannon Brown a contract for next year because they need every penny they can save, so that is the main reason I believe Bibby won't be traded there: they would rather have Gibson for half the money.

Exactly.

sackings916 · Post #12 » by **sackings916** » Mon Jan 7, 2008 9:26 pm

^and aside from 3 pointers you'll be getting half the production.

LeQuitterNotMVP · Post #13 » by **LeQuitterNotMVP** » Mon Jan 7, 2008 9:29 pm

sackings916 wrote:^and aside from 3 pointers you'll be getting half the production.

Well, I was mainly pointing out the thing about post depth. But, the thing about Gibson is also a good point. He makes wayyyy less, and is a better shooter. Sure, we'd like to have Bibby on our team, but we're not going to destroy our post and future to get him.

OGSactownballer · Post #14 » by **OGSactownballer** » Mon Jan 7, 2008 9:58 pm

Lotto protection on a pick from a team that considers itself a contender is laughable - as is the rest of the junk that Cleveland has to offer.

Post #15 » by **Maritimer** » Mon Jan 7, 2008 11:49 pm

A slight variation on an earlier proposal. I'm sure there will be opposition from various groups of fans, but it's what I could slap together after trying to find a team that would take on extra salary for next year while giving out an expiring.

CLE out: Gooden (6.4), Marshall (5.6), D. Brown (1.1), Snow (6.7), 1st
CLE in: Bibby (13.5), Thomas (7.3)

LAL out: Kwame (9.1), 1st
LAL in: Gooden (6.4), D. Brown (1.1)

MIN out: Ratliff (11.7), Green (1.4)
MIN in: Marshall (5.6), Snow (6.7), choice of the two 1sts

SAC out: Bibby (13.5), Thomas (7.3)
SAC in: Kwame (9.1), Ratliff (11.7), Green (1.4), lower of the two picks

Cleveland rids most of its bad salaries for Bibby, but the more I work with it, the more it seems they'll have to downgrade from Gooden to KT to make it work (bringing him off the bench behind Andy)

LA gets two rotation players, including some solid low post depth and rebounding, for Kwame and a first.

Minnesota's contracts mostly run out in two years, so they add salary at the price of adding their choice of the two picks exchanging hands.

Sacramento clears over $20M from their cap next year while adding a mid-to-late first rounder.

Thoughts?

Post #16 » by **loserX** » Mon Jan 7, 2008 11:57 pm

Maritimer wrote:MIN out: Ratliff (11.7), Green (1.4)
MIN in: Marshall (5.6), Snow (6.7), choice of the two 1sts

Minnesota wants that capspace to stay out of the luxury tax next year when Al Jefferson's big extension kicks in. I don't think a single pick will convince them to take on all the extra money for those two guys.

Maritimer wrote:SAC out: Bibby (13.5), Thomas (7.3)
SAC in: Kwame (9.1), Ratliff (11.7), Green (1.4), lower of the two picks

Too much for Sacramento. They're making an AWFUL lot of money disappear here...certainly no reason they should get a draft pick. (They may choose to bundle KT with Artest and move Bibby separately anyway.)

Post #17 » by **KF10** » Tue Jan 8, 2008 2:11 am

bullzman23 wrote:If I were the Kings I'd wait on a deal. I'm not quite sure when Bibby returns, but his value is pretty low right now. If he returns before the deadline, he may be able to remind a few teams of his forgotten talent. Either way, if the Kings are willing to wait, Bibby should be twice as valuable next season as a good player with an expiring contract.

Exactly. That's what we are doing right now....