RealGM

CLE outgoing: Drew Gooden, Larry Hughes, Damon Jones, Donyell Marshall, Ira Newble, Eric Snow, and 2008 1st round pick (lotto protected)
CLE incoming: Shareef Abdur-Rahim, Mike Bibby, Jared Jeffries, Kenny Thomas, and Zach Randolph

Why do the Cavs do this deal?

They finally get their man in Bibby. The price isn't high in terms of talent - they even dump a guy in Hughes who hasn't fit in the team's style of play. The price to pay, however, is taking on some ugly contracts. However, getting a PG and shooter in Bibby is well worth it.

PG: Bibby/Gibson
SG: Pavlovic/Brown/Brown
SF: James/Jeffries
PF: Randolph/Thomas/Simmons
C: Ilgauskas/Varejao/Jones

IR: Abdur-Rahim

NYK outgoing: Renaldo Balkman, Jared Jeffries, David Lee, Zach Randolph, Nate Robinson, and Malik Rose
NYK incoming: Ron Artest, Drew Gooden, Larry Hughes, Damon Jones, Mikki Moore, and Justin Williams

Why do the Knicks do this deal?

This would be a last-ditch effort by Isiah to save his job. And it might just work. Yes, the Knicks give up a lot of young talent, but they get a guy in Gooden who isn't as much of a black hole on D as Randolph is, they get a guard who can play defense, and they get a talented wing who can play defense. It would be a risk, but not much more can go wrong with this franchise, so why not?

PG: Marbury/Hughes/Collins
SG: Crawford/Jones/Jones
SF: Artest/Richardson/Chandler
PF: Gooden/Moore/Williams
C: Curry/Morris/James

SAC outgoing: Shareef Abdur-Rahim, Ron Artest, Mike Bibby, Mikki Moore, Kenny Thomas, and Justin Williams
SAC incoming: Renaldo Balkman, David Lee, Donyell Marshall, Ira Newble, Nate Robinson, Malik Rose, Eric Snow, and CLE's 2008 1st round pick (lotto protected)

Why do the Kings do this deal?

The Kings are obviously going nowhere, so it would be a good ideal to blow it up. In this deal, they shed a TON of salary by unloading KT's and SAR's contracts, and take back no contracts that run past 2009. The Kings also get 3 young, talented players in Lee, Balkman, and Robinson. They also pick up a 1st round pick, which could be used as ammo to move up in the draft.

PG: Udrih/Robinson/Snow
SG: Martin/Douby/Jones
SF: Salmons/Garcia/Newble
PF: Lee/Balkman/Marshall/Rose
C: Miller/Hawes

LBJ4MVP23 needs to quit posting Bibby to Cleveland trades.

Bac2Basics wrote:LBJ4MVP23 needs to quit posting Bibby to Cleveland trades.

Bac2Basics needs to realize that Bibby and Artest don't have that high of values. Dumping 2 bad contracts, getting a pick, and getting 3 young players is more than enough for those guys.

Let me be more specific then

Kings fans are on record as far as what they'd want for Artest from NY.

And everyone's on record as far as Cleveland not having the pieces to get Bibby.

Kings want nothing to do with Eric Snow or Donyell Marshall (or Damon Jones for that matter)

Not to mention that this trade is much to big to be realistic.

Bac2Basics wrote:Let me be more specific then

Kings fans are on record as far as what they'd want for Artest from NY.

And everyone's on record as far as Cleveland not having the pieces to get Bibby.

Kings want nothing to do with Eric Snow or Donyell Marshall (or Damon Jones for that matter)

Not to mention that this trade is much to big to be realistic.

OK, you guys want Lee and Robinson and to dump SAR/KT for Artest. Check.

Then, you get Balkman, a 1st, and dump SAR/KT for Bibby. Pretty good value.

I think it's so-so value but that's really because I think Balkman is turning into a bust (not a horrible player but not the "future Dennis Rodman/Ron Artest" that Knick fans were trying to sell him as this summer) plus I don't think the Kings are AT ALL in need of another wingman with Salmons and Garcia (both significantly better players than Balkman) already occupying time there. I also don't think Robinson gets much run due to the emergence of Douby this year PLUS I still don't think that Udrih is a starting PG on a contending team (thus he should be a 25mpg guy off the bench). So Robinson would then end up being the #3 or #4 PG on the Kings, which really makes zero sense. Lastly, I just don't think Lee is what the Kings want to put next to Hawes. The Kings need a more defensive minded player (as if Lee plays any defense to begin with) more than they need a hustle player like Lee. The 1st rounder isn't going to be that great considering where it's coming from.

So, in conclusion, the salary dump that the Kings get after next year is great but the package of young talent/pick(s) that they get just doesn't help them much at all.

Note that I don't think the Kings should receive a top 5 lottery pick or a star caliber youngster AND a huge salary dump for Bibby/Artest. What I do think is that the Kings have some obvious holes in their young core and that a trade of Bibby/Artest should either fill 1 or more of those holes or give the Kings a legitimate chance at filling 1 or more of those holes (i.e. through mid-range or possibly the end of the lottery draft picks)

I really don't care about NYK or Cleveland's value, and it doesnt really matter if Cleveland has the value of getting bibby or not or gets too good of a deal, as long as its good for the kings, then i'm happy

LBJ4MVP23 wrote:SAC outgoing: Shareef Abdur-Rahim, Ron Artest, Mike Bibby, Mikki Moore, Kenny Thomas, and Justin Williams
SAC incoming: Renaldo Balkman, David Lee, Donyell Marshall, Ira Newble, Nate Robinson, Malik Rose, Eric Snow, and CLE's 2008 1st round pick (lotto protected)

PG: Udrih/Robinson/Snow
SG: Martin/Douby/Jones
SF: Salmons/Garcia/Newble
PF: Lee/Balkman/Marshall/Rose
C: Miller/Hawes

For the Kings, like I've said, Robinson is useless. Neither Udrih or Robinson are starting level point guards for a championship team, and i'd much rather have udrih as a backup. So, why not just kings keep more instead. If NYK does this trade, they are intending to win now, and not in the mindset of rebuilding. If kings get a NYK lotto protected 08 1st, i'd do the trade. Also, Kings want to keep Justin Williams idealy, but it really doesnt matter that much. Plus i dont see other teams really wanting him that bad either.


So overall something like
Sac: Artest, Bibby, Shareef, Thomas
For
Balkman, Lee, Marshall, Newble, Rose, Snow, 08 1st lotto (Clev and NYK)

LBJ4MVP23 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

Bac2Basics needs to realize that Bibby and Artest don't have that high of values. Dumping 2 bad contracts, getting a pick, and getting 3 young players is more than enough for those guys.

People need to stop overrating late 1st rounders and really look at what they typically go for!! For instance:

Kyle Korver nets you the same level type of pick.

SacKingZZZ wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



People need to stop overrating late 1st rounders and really look at what they typically go for!! For instance:

Kyle Korver nets you the same level type of pick.

...And Kyle Korver is a solid player.

denied and rpa - thank you for explaining your reasonings, but I put Robinson and Williams in there b/c the Kings were rumored to be interested in Lee and Robinson IIRC.

Is Balkman a PF? I like the guy but the Martin/Salmons/Garcia/Balkman/Douby rotation is a logjam at the swing.

LBJ4MVP23 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

...And Kyle Korver is a solid player.

denied and rpa - thank you for explaining your reasonings, but I put Robinson and Williams in there b/c the Kings were rumored to be interested in Lee and Robinson IIRC.

I think the Kings MAY have been interested in Robinson before the season (the only reference to the Kings interest in Robinson also referenced it prior to the season) which means before the Kings picked up Udrih. Needless to say I still don't fully believe that article as Lee doesn't fit with the Kings' young core UNLESS Petrie wants to bring him in as a 6th man. But in that case why trade Artest & Bibby w/o getting a starter back?

SacKingZZZ wrote:People need to stop overrating late 1st rounders and really look at what they typically go for!!

That may be, but the Kings aren't going to get high picks for Bibby, Artest, Miller, whomever.

Not because the players are lousy, but because lottery-bound teams (the ones with high picks) aren't going to trade for those guys. Late picks are the only picks the Kings will get, so they shouldn't dismiss them either.

I don't think most Kings fans are expecting a guaranteed single digit pick, but as has been said before, Petrie isn't going to give away a guy (Bibby, Artest) that is going to be no worse than the 3rd best player on most teams for peanuts.

Unless Petrie gets a package that a team should expect for giving that team it's 2nd or 3rd best player, he's not going to pull the trigger, and rightfully so.

Bac2Basics wrote:I don't think most Kings fans are expecting a guaranteed single digit pick, but as has been said before, Petrie isn't going to give away a guy (Bibby, Artest) that is going to be no worse than the 3rd best player on most teams for peanuts.

Unless Petrie gets a package that a team should expect for giving that team it's 2nd or 3rd best player, he's not going to pull the trigger, and rightfully so.

I think at some point Petrie also has to acknowledge he needs to rebuild and do it totally (like the Sonics and Wolves). Being 4th in the division, 2 games over the Clips, and in 11th in the West (but 5.5 games out of 8th) they really aren't in it. He almost has to trade Artest this year because it is very likely he will opt out after the year to get more than 8.5 mill.

Bibby however is different. While he is hurt this year (and making 13.5 mill which hurts the owners pocket books) next year he is a HUGE expiring at 14.5 million. The hard part with that is IF he gets healthy, a rebuilding team probably will not want him because he could cost them wins and playing time for younger players (the opposite of Theo in Minny). However, not many good teams will give up a good young player and draft pick for a one year rental of Bibby, especially since he has been getting hurt more these last few years.

imlbj23 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



I think at some point Petrie also has to acknowledge he needs to rebuild and do it totally (like the Sonics and Wolves). Being 4th in the division, 2 games over the Clips, and in 11th in the West (but 5.5 games out of 8th) they really aren't in it. He almost has to trade Artest this year because it is very likely he will opt out after the year to get more than 8.5 mill.

Bibby however is different. While he is hurt this year (and making 13.5 mill which hurts the owners pocket books) next year he is a HUGE expiring at 14.5 million. The hard part with that is IF he gets healthy, a rebuilding team probably will not want him because he could cost them wins and playing time for younger players (the opposite of Theo in Minny). However, not many good teams will give up a good young player and draft pick for a one year rental of Bibby, especially since he has been getting hurt more these last few years.

The Kings have been without 4/5 of their starting lineup from last year for almost the entire season. We haven't had our FULL starting lineup ALL year. I think we're doing okay, being 14-20 and having no Bibby, Artest, Martin or SAR. I've said it before, our owners want to see how having a complete starting lineup does before any trades happen...

loserX wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



That may be, but the Kings aren't going to get high picks for Bibby, Artest, Miller, whomever.

Not because the players are lousy, but because lottery-bound teams (the ones with high picks) aren't going to trade for those guys. Late picks are the only picks the Kings will get, so they shouldn't dismiss them either.

But some are going on about it as if they can't even net a mid to late 1st rounder or as if it's going to put the kabosh on any deal, or that it's the pick or no value anywhere else. Just look at what the Suns do with late 1st rounders for cripes sake! I am not saying they are worthless, quite the contrary, and I don't think Artest will net a lotto pick on top of letting us dump salary and get back value, but c'mon now.... Can't people let prescidence factor into the eqaution!? Just a little bit!

SacKingZZZ wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



But some are going on about it as if they can't even net a mid to late 1st rounder or as if it's going to put the kabosh on any deal, or that it's the pick or no value anywhere else. Just look at what the Suns do with late 1st rounders for cripes sake! I am not saying they are worthless, quite the contrary, and I don't think Artest will net a lotto pick on top of letting us dump salary and get back value, but c'mon now.... Can't people let prescidence factor into the eqaution!? Just a little bit!

I do think Artest has value. But look at if from the point of the other team. Why would you give up a young, talented player with potential AND a draft pick just to rent a guy who will then opt out of his contract to get more money. Its a big risk.

imlbj23 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



I do think Artest has value. But look at if from the point of the other team. Why would you give up a young, talented player with potential AND a draft pick just to rent a guy who will then opt out of his contract to get more money. Its a big risk.

Because the team most likely getting said player is closer to a championship than it is to developing young talent. With Ron's ability to make a team better on the court unquestioned. And if his presence has a positive effect you simply re-sign him and fight for that title the next few years after. That young talent would be wasted on the bench anyway, being a Kings fan I have seen that happen to some very good young talent over the years. Fact was they were not going to get the time on a team looking to win now.

Now on the other hand, if I felt the Kings were one piece away from being a legit contender you better believe I would be throwing guys like Hawes and our 1st to get that piece that could take us over the top.