RealGM

***Based Upon HotSpurs21's UConn Reunion Thread***

***Edited to shore up value for MEM and MIL, by substituting Joe Smith for Tyrus Thomas and Andrew Bogut for Dan Gadzuric. Also, added Warrick-Khryapa swap to make the proposal work***

Trade ID #4404327

Memphis Trade Breakdown
Incoming Players: Viktor Khryapa, Tyrus Thomas, Ben Gordon, Charlie Villanueva, Jake Voskuhl
Outgoing Players: Juan Carlos Navarro, Damon Stoudamire, Mike Miller, Pau Gasol
MEM goes younger and... Huskier.
Conley, Gordon, Gay, Villanueva, Milicic
Lowry, Jacobsen, Thomas, Swift, Voskuhl



Chicago Trade Breakdown
Incoming Players: Juan Carlos Navarro, Hakim Warrick, Damon Stoudamire, Pau Gasol, Dan Gadzuric, Michael Redd
Outgoing Players: Viktor Khryapa, Tyrus Thomas, Chris Duhon, Luol Deng, Ben Gordon, Ben Wallace
CHI revamps its lineup in hopes that Redd and Gasol can lift this team back into the playoff chase. They take on salary, but with the impending extensions of Gordon and Deng no longer an issue, this lineup seems financially stable and ready to contend for years to come.
Hinrich, Redd, Nocioni, Smith, Gasol
Stoudamire, Navarro, Sefolosha, Warrick, Noah



Milwaukee Trade Breakdown
Incoming Players: Mike Miller, Chris Duhon, Luol Deng, Ben Wallace
Outgoing Players: Charlie Villanueva, Jake Voskuhl, Dan Gadzuric, Michael Redd
MIL rebuilds its roster around their twin towers. The Bucks reel in two versatile swingmen to ease the loss of Redd. Wallace does the dirty work for this offensively explosive team.
Williams, Miller, Deng, Jianlian, Bogut
Duhon, Bell, Mason, Ruffin, Wallace

Don't like it for Memphis at all. Gordon isn't worth Gasol, and CV isn't worth Miller.

Memphis does get stiffed here a bit.

By far the WORST ever trade made for the Milwaukee bucks in history of this board.

I really don't see how Ben Gordon,Luol Deng and the glorious contract of Ben Wallace can nab them Gasol,Bogut AND Redd.

So, it's too good for CHI then? I need this feedback.

Would it be fair for Chicago to take Gadzuric instead of Bogut, AND to give Tyrus or Noah instead of Smith? Or is this an undue burden of over-correcting?

Cliff Levingston wrote:Memphis does get stiffed here a bit.

DanTown8587 wrote:By far the WORST ever trade made for the Milwaukee bucks in history of this board.

I have heard your concerns, and I'd like to know if the changes I made have addressed them adequately. It's no longer the instant "YESSSSSSSSSS!" for CHI, but at the end of the day, I still think they're locked into this one.

MEM now builds an exciting frontcourt; I could envision Gay, CV and Tyrus being on the floor together for Iavaroni, and punishing teams with their athleticism and range.

Was this really thw WORST MIL trade ever, before the changes? There has to have been a Carney+Evans+Green for Redd proposal out there at some point! In any case, I see now that even though Miller and Deng woudl be SWEET together, losing Bogut was too much to ask of the rebuilding Bucks. The swapout of Bogut for Gadzuric is serious, though. Would it be fair to add a 2nd to CHI?

Anyway, I await your response.

<bump>

Geez, just because there are animals in the titile, doesn't mean it's going to bite!

I figured at least CHI fans would be indignant about the changes, but no response?

Ben Wallace is washed up and carries an enormous contract. Luol Deng is a Free Agent after this season. And Duhon isn't playing very well either.

I don't see why the Bucks would even contemplate this trade offer. If the Bucks are going to trade Redd it'll be for a player that has at least 1-2 years left on a deal, not half a season.

Memphis gets hosed. No thanks.

Ruben Douglas wrote:Ben Wallace is washed up and carries an enormous contract. Luol Deng is a Free Agent after this season. And Duhon isn't playing very well either.

I don't see why the Bucks would even contemplate this trade offer. If the Bucks are going to trade Redd it'll be for a player that has at least 1-2 years left on a deal, not half a season.

I'd certainly think long and hard about it. Deng is restricted and the Bucks would match whatever he's offered. Without any teams being able to really offer something huge, he'll likely be making than Redd will be.

Simmons, Wallace, and Miller would then expire at the same time giving the Bucks a lot of salary cap relief/space in order to sign Bogut and likely another impact player. Deng is a very, very, good player on both ends of the floor which is something we've lacked in Milwaukee, well a VERY LONG TIME.

In the meantime the Bucks run with a very deep roster that plays the right kind of ball, SMART basketball.

PG: Mo Williams / Chris Duhon / Ramon Sessions
SG: Mike Miller / Charlie Bell / Royal Ivey
SF: Luol Deng / Bobby Simmons / Desmond Mason
PF: Yi Jianlian / Michael Ruffin
C: Andrew Bogut / Ben Wallace

^

I know, I just love the way that lanky Bucks lineup looks!

Chicago seems built for a strong playoff run.

Is it still that bad for Memphis? Gordon, Thomas and Villanueva isnt'; a bad youth package, and they shed lots of salary to get way under the cap. That could mean (IF they extend Gordon quickly and at an affordable price, say, 5 years for $43mil) they could chase another free agent in the offseason.

I like that trade, but I think Memphis and Milwaukee should both throw in a couple 1st rounders for Chicago, too.

We'd be sharing the rings three ways for helping Chicago become insane, right?

Chicago makes like bandits; we wish.

Chicago doesn't make out like bandits! We would be down to zero defense. Its a trade that looks wonderful for us on paper, but we'd be fielding:

Hinrich
Redd
Nocioni
Smith
Gasol

with Noah/Thabo/Stoudemire/Navarro off the bench.

There are three players in that rotation that play above average defense, 2 that play average D, and four that play awful D. We could score pretty well, but there are no hopes of this team being a contender, not with that defense.

If you want another reason Chicago shouldn't do this trade, consider the salaries. We're basically capped by the luxury tax, and we'd have Gasol at 14 mil, Gadz at 6, Redd at 15, Smith at 5, Stoudemire at 5, Hinrich at 10, Noc at 7, and thats only 7 of 13 required players! Thats 62 million for 7 players, increasing yearly until Smith/Damon expires. Chicago just won't go for it, no matter how much Bulls fans would wish they would.

No-brainer for Milwaukee. The difference between Redd and Miller isn't THAT great and they get Deng for CV and junk.

There's no way the Bucks pass on this.

Can't see Memphis doing it though.

BrooklynBulls wrote:If you want another reason Chicago shouldn't do this trade, consider the salaries. We're basically capped by the luxury tax, and we'd have Gasol at 14 mil, Gadz at 6, Redd at 15, Smith at 5, Stoudemire at 5, Hinrich at 10, Noc at 7, and thats only 7 of 13 required players! Thats 62 million for 7 players, increasing yearly until Smith/Damon expires. Chicago just won't go for it, no matter how much Bulls fans would wish they would.

I don't believe the defense on this roster would be nearly as bad as you suggest.

Also, in regards to your financial situation, what do you think your payroll is going to look like next year without this trade? I'll tell you:

Wallace - 14
Deng - 10
Hinrich - 10
Gordon - 9
Nocioni - 9
Smith - 6
Duhon - 4

WOW! THAT ALSO $62MILLION FOR 7 PLAYERS! Funny, huh? And that's IF Chicago can extend Deng and Gordon at reasonable rates. You HAVE to admit that the starting five after this deal is better than your current one, and I have just illustrated that they would cost the same, if not more in your current form.

You get older, but you get better; that you cannot deny. The mean age of your starters would be ~28, less if the Bulls decided to run Gasol and Noah together. Lots of contention left in them, and not too expensive.

Simulack wrote:No-brainer for Milwaukee. The difference between Redd and Miller isn't THAT great and they get Deng for CV and junk.

There's no way the Bucks pass on this.

Can't see Memphis doing it though.

That's how I tend to feel now about MIL's side. Would you be amenable to sending a 1st to MEM, since their side is a bit lacking still? I honestly don't think this deal is far away, but MIL almost gets it too good by turning Gadz into Wallace...

ecuhus1981 wrote:

BrooklynBulls wrote:If you want another reason Chicago shouldn't do this trade, consider the salaries. We're basically capped by the luxury tax, and we'd have Gasol at 14 mil, Gadz at 6, Redd at 15, Smith at 5, Stoudemire at 5, Hinrich at 10, Noc at 7, and thats only 7 of 13 required players! Thats 62 million for 7 players, increasing yearly until Smith/Damon expires. Chicago just won't go for it, no matter how much Bulls fans would wish they would.

I don't believe the defense on this roster would be nearly as bad as you suggest.

Also, in regards to your financial situation, what do you think your payroll is going to look like next year without this trade? I'll tell you:

Wallace - 14
Deng - 10
Hinrich - 10
Gordon - 9
Nocioni - 9
Smith - 6
Duhon - 4

WOW! THAT ALSO $62MILLION FOR 7 PLAYERS! Funny, huh? And that's IF Chicago can extend Deng and Gordon at reasonable rates. You HAVE to admit that the starting five after this deal is better than your current one, and I have just illustrated that they would cost the same, if not more in your current form.

You get older, but you get better; that you cannot deny. The mean age of your starters would be ~28, less if the Bulls decided to run Gasol and Noah together. Lots of contention left in them, and not too expensive.

Smith will cost 5 million next year, Noc 8, and you'll see that the Bulls will be unwilling to pay Duhon any money above say 3, maybe not even that. Again, I admit that the team after the trade is better, but I maintain that it is not good enough defensively to be real contenders. Sorry, M. Redd is an awful defender, Noc gets consistently lit up, Gasol doesn't rotate nearly quickly enough, Joe Smith is the definition of mediocre, and Hinrich's defense has been subpar this year to say the least.

If you want me to look at the costs very closely, this is what I have: We'd be paying ~65 million dollars next year if we let Duhon go, draft a mid 1st-rounder and 2nd rounder, pay Gordon+Deng a combined 20 million for their first year, and keep the rest of our players.

Here is the cost for next year of the roster you've constructed.

Hinrich- 10.25
Redd- 15.78
Nocioni- 8
Smith- 4.8
Gasol- 15.1
-------
D. Stoudemire- 4.65
Navarro- .5
Gadz- 6.25
Thabo- 1.8
Griffin 1.7
Noah- 2.3
Gray- .7
1st rounder- ~1

Those would be with the minimum 13 spots filled. Total cost would be 72.83 million which WILL exceed the luxury tax by at least 3 million, maybe more. Thats not HORRIBLE, but we'd likely have to sell off Griffin, and the 1st rounder (maybe more) just to avoid the tax.

The bad part is, things get worse, not better. Even though Griffin, Smith, Damon come off the cap fairly soon, Redd, Gasol, Noah, Navarro, Thabo, Gray, will command a TON of money. Just look at their salaries, and you'll see that the starting lineup in two years will cost 55 million or more. Don't get me wrong, I wish we could spend in an unlimited way, or at least cross the tax. But all indications are that we cannot.