Andrea Bargnani for Joakim Noah

elmer_yuck · Post #1 » by **elmer_yuck** » Mon Jan 14, 2008 1:30 am

They are both struggling.
Maybe a change of scenery would be good for everyone.

BR0D1E86 · Post #2 » by **BR0D1E86** » Mon Jan 14, 2008 1:32 am

Side note...

Who's goofier-looking?

yunggunz · Post #3 » by **yunggunz** » Mon Jan 14, 2008 1:35 am

bargnanis value is low, but not that low.

Kosta · Post #4 » by **Kosta** » Mon Jan 14, 2008 1:37 am

BR0D1E86 wrote:Side note...

Who's goofier-looking?

Definitely Joakim.

This offer is tempting, I mean who wouldn't want their former number 1 pick being traded away for the next Varejao? But Raptors show patience and stick it out with their young big.

chefy · Post #5 » by **chefy** » Mon Jan 14, 2008 1:42 am

yunggunz wrote:bargnanis value is low, but not that low.

skones · Post #6 » by **skones** » Mon Jan 14, 2008 2:03 am

I think each player is a good fit for the respective team they'd be traded to, however, value wise, Bargnani still has more considering Joakim Noah's not exactly shown a whole lot this season.

Post #7 » by **KF10** » Mon Jan 14, 2008 2:08 am

I didnt knew Noah has this much of value....

Post #8 » by **The Duke** » Mon Jan 14, 2008 2:48 am

I didnt know Noah's value was so low ? ....

Cammo101 · Post #9 » by **Cammo101** » Mon Jan 14, 2008 2:50 am

Bargnani for Noah and Nocioni makes more sense.

Post #10 » by **moocow007** » Mon Jan 14, 2008 2:55 am

Bargnani hasn't exactly been a stud himself. But regardless, not sure that what Bargnani brings is what the Bulls need. How many perimeter players can a team possibly have and expect to do anything? If the Bulls are looking to move Noah, it should be in a package along with their 1st and maybe Gordon for someone that can give them a huge splash. That ain't Bargnani.

Post #11 » by **coldfish** » Mon Jan 14, 2008 3:10 am

PER:

Bargnani 9.71
Noah 17.78

Something to think about.

Noah hasn't played a lot, but when he has got on the floor, it has been quality play. Chicago's issue is that they need scoring and they have to (apparently) give Ben Wallace his 35+ minutes per night. That leaves Noah as the odd man out.

In general, I agree with moocow. The Bulls should be looking at consolidation type trades where they bring in a solid player, not a project. It would probably shock Toronto fans to read this, but I seriously doubt Chicago would pull the trigger on this type of deal right now.

Kosta · Post #12 » by **Kosta** » Mon Jan 14, 2008 3:12 am

^I think it would also shock Paxson.

elmer_yuck · Post #13 » by **elmer_yuck** » Mon Jan 14, 2008 3:25 am

As a Raptors fan, I would definitely make this trade.
I think Noah is just in a bad situation. And he doesn't
need to be taught how to hustle and rebound.

whiterasta80 · Post #14 » by **whiterasta80** » Mon Jan 14, 2008 3:49 am

elmer_yuck wrote:... he doesn't
need to be taught how to hustle and rebound.

Just to score, not commit fouls, and respect authority.

Post #15 » by **Schad** » Mon Jan 14, 2008 3:52 am

coldfish wrote:PER:

Bargnani 9.71
Noah 17.78

Something to think about.

Noah hasn't played a lot, but when he has got on the floor, it has been quality play. Chicago's issue is that they need scoring and they have to (apparently) give Ben Wallace his 35+ minutes per night. That leaves Noah as the odd man out.

Very true, but PER doesn't take into account that Noah fouls at too high a rate (thus far) to play big minutes...to put it in perspective, Bargnani is a fouling machine this season, as any fan of Toronto will tell you. Noah is committing roughly 20% more fouls per minute than Bargs; his rebounding and defense is only useful if he can stay on the court for extended minutes...and out of the doghouse. If not, Toronto is probably better off gambling that Bargnani regains his form from late last season.

kandiking · Post #16 » by **kandiking** » Mon Jan 14, 2008 5:21 am

but one must remember that Noah is evidently a complete dick. Bargs is foreign so he has no personality/soul.

Post #17 » by **coldfish** » Mon Jan 14, 2008 11:54 am

Schadenfreude wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

Very true, but PER doesn't take into account that Noah fouls at too high a rate (thus far) to play big minutes...to put it in perspective, Bargnani is a fouling machine this season, as any fan of Toronto will tell you. Noah is committing roughly 20% more fouls per minute than Bargs; his rebounding and defense is only useful if he can stay on the court for extended minutes...and out of the doghouse. If not, Toronto is probably better off gambling that Bargnani regains his form from late last season.

Noah averages 7.1 fouls per 48. The typical game, he could play 41 minutes at that rate. Realistically, his fouls would not prevent him from playing 30 minutes per game, regularly. Beyond that, fouls are taken into account in PER.

I agree that keeping Bargnani is Toronto's best course of action. His value can't go any lower and he was known to be a project.

Kosta wrote:^I think it would also shock Paxson.

If a large number of Raptor fans are upset / concerned about Bargnani's play, you can assume that 90% of everyone else is appalled at it.

Paxson has tried to build a team around defense and rebounding to a fault. Beyond that, his public desire in a trade is to get a low post player. Essentially, regardless of what you think of Bargnani's play, his style isn't anything that the Bulls are looking for.

Chocolate City Jordanaire · Post #18 » by **Chocolate City Jordanaire** » Mon Jan 14, 2008 1:52 pm

skones wrote:I think each player is a good fit for the respective team they'd be traded to, however, value wise, Bargnani still has more considering Joakim Noah's not exactly shown a whole lot this season.

The Bulls already have a bunch of rebounding shotblockers, thus Noah's more of the same. Bargnani can open up their offense a lot. The Raps already have a ton of shooters with deep range, but besides Moon they lack athletic rebounders who can block shots. Bargnani's more of the same for them. Noah would immediately start at C and blow up with Toronto.

I think this is an excellent trade idea because both players bring what the other team needs.

Chocolate City Jordanaire · Post #19 » by **Chocolate City Jordanaire** » Mon Jan 14, 2008 1:59 pm

moocow007 wrote:Bargnani hasn't exactly been a stud himself. But regardless, not sure that what Bargnani brings is what the Bulls need. How many perimeter players can a team possibly have and expect to do anything? If the Bulls are looking to move Noah, it should be in a package along with their 1st and maybe Gordon for someone that can give them a huge splash. That ain't Bargnani.

Bargnani IMO certainly wouldn't help Chicago as much as Noah would help Toronto.

I just think if they're starting Joe Smith they need a young replacement for him. I think Gray inherits the C position and is a passing big who can score in the paint and rebound and block shots, but he lacks athleticism and a bit of mobility. Still, I think he steps if for Wallace.

Bargnani to me could be a sub for Smith or Deng at either F spot and a three point shooting C off the bench. His scoring can be utilized by the Bulls.

Post #20 » by **Mr Swagtastic** » Mon Jan 14, 2008 4:55 pm

Toronto wouldn't do the deal because Noah is still a unknown yet. Both players have done very little so far but I am sure Toronto wants to stick it out with their number one overall pick.

I am not taking anything away from Noah, he will be a great energy guy and could devlop into a good inside post player but Toronto is way too high on Bargs to move him for this. Bulls would have to overpay for Bargnani and at this point it would be stupid for them to.