I got it, wallace to minny

[dflaschberger]

I altered this one from another post-this works

Wallace plus our #1 (top ? protected) to minny for theo and Jaric

Why for Chicago-frees up minutes, $ for our youngsters. Jaric would actually start for us.

Minny, of course, might not make sense but:
Their D is BAD, Wallace would be a big help to Al
they dump the final year of Jaric's deal.
They save enough this year to get under the lux cap
they get another pick

[trwi7]

I don't think there's a chance Minny does this even if there's no protection on the pick.

[shrink]

Everything you said is correct, except for getting under the lux next season, and that seems to be a huge deal to Wolves owner Glen Taylor. Al Jefferson makes $11 mil, Hudson and Juwon's deals are still on the books, and paying the draft picks (MIN, CHI) would put us just over the lux. This would also mean that the Wolves would not be able to afford to bring back Ryan Gomes, Chris Richard, Sebastian Telfair, or Craig Smith, if they like how they perform the rest of the season.

[schaffy]

Wolves wont give up Theo and that cap space. They counter with

Jaric
Walker
Madsen

for

Wallace
Top 5 Protected 1st

[dflaschberger]

what if we add duhon and VK and you add walker
So it would be Wallace, duhon (who you could move elsewhere and is expiring), VK (expiring) and our pick with some protection for
theo, walker, jaric

That saves you $ next year, I think-plus you get the pick.

Bulls might take walker to add to our players who can't shoot

Bulls
Kirk/gordon/thabo
Jaric/gordon/thabo
Deng/noc/thabo
Smith/TThomas/Noc/Walker
Noah/Theo/Gray

We still could make the playoffs?

[wolves_fan_82au]

Wolves wont give up Theo and that cap space. They counter with

Jaric
Walker
Madsen

for

Wallace
Top 5 Protected 1st

wow has wallace value got that low

[loserX]

^No, it hasn't. The Bulls won't give up a first for that.

(But the Wolves won't do the OP either.)

[Cliff Levingston]

dflasch; the idea of dumping Wallace would be to acquire contracts that don't extend as long as Wallace's. If we have to take on guys like Antoine Walker in addition to Jaric, it makes the deal a complete negative to the Bulls, let along giving up a first round pick for a team that's still rebuilding.

If we can't simply get a smaller/shorter contract for Wallace then we'd be better off sending him for two years and letting his deal expire, or using it in a deal when it's expiring.

[deeney0]

Walker is shorter than Wallace; he only has next year guarenteed. Wolves don't do any version with Theo involved, but Wallace/pick for Walker/Jaric is something I would do.

[Cliff Levingston]

Walker is shorter than Wallace; he only has next year guarenteed. Wolves don't do any version with Theo involved, but Wallace/pick for Walker/Jaric is something I would do.

Oh. The trade checker has him with 3 more years. Anyway, the point still stands. The Bulls would be better off eating Wallace's deal than giving up any good assets to get rid of him, like out first round pick this year which could very well end up in the top 5.

[dflaschberger]

cliff-
1. Walker has one more year, at about $8 mil.
Plus, Walker is an expiring next year, to use in a deal. Finally, MAYBE he can contribute for us-he used to score.

2. Dealing wallace frees up minutes for Noah, gray and TThomas-we have to see what we have.

3. Theo MIGHT give us a good game every 2 weeks; I still say we would make the playoffs after this deal.

4. The pick would have protection. Not sure how much is fair. We don't need more young guys, unless of course they're studs. We need minutes.

5. Jaric would actually play for us, I say start him with Kirk and use Gordon as our 3rd guard. he CAN'T be worse than duhon at this point. His deal has one more year, but we save some $ on Wallace

[deeney0]

-= original quote snipped =-


Oh. The trade checker has him with 3 more years. Anyway, the point still stands. The Bulls would be better off eating Wallace's deal than giving up any good assets to get rid of him, like out first round pick this year which could very well end up in the top 5.

I agree. I don't understand this for the Bulls.

[shrink]

Wolves wont give up Theo and that cap space. They counter with

Jaric
Walker
Madsen

for

Wallace
Top 5 Protected 1st

Madsen is a net zero player, and I think CHI needs an asset here instead. Perhaps Craig Smith, or the BOS 1st would be fairer.

[Cliff Levingston]

1. Walker has one more year, at about $8 mil.
Plus, Walker is an expiring next year, to use in a deal. Finally, MAYBE he can contribute for us-he used to score.

We've got enough guys that can contribute, they just need minutes. Cliff Levingston would much rather see Thabo play over Walker.

2. Dealing wallace frees up minutes for Noah, gray and TThomas-we have to see what we have.

Yea ,but getting Walker and Jaric back just closes minutes down for Sefolosha and even Thomas/Noah at the 4.

3. Theo MIGHT give us a good game every 2 weeks; I still say we would make the playoffs after this deal.

Who cares about Theo, other than his contract. If we couldn't use his deal to facilitate a trade before the deadline, Cliff Levingston would advocate buying him out and letting him join a contender just so he's not in the rotation.

4. The pick would have protection. Not sure how much is fair. We don't need more young guys, unless of course they're studs. We need minutes.

The pick wold be the primary incentive for Minnesota since they would be taking on more salary than they give up for the long-term. They wouldn't make the deal if it was protected enough, and we shouldn't make the deal if the pick isn't protected enough because it could very well be high enough to net us a good player.

5. Jaric would actually play for us, I say start him with Kirk and use Gordon as our 3rd guard. he CAN'T be worse than duhon at this point. His deal has one more year, but we save some $ on Wallace

Gordon is as good as gone if he's pegged as a bench player for the long-term.

[MagicFan3]

The Wolves are not stupid enough to trade for Wallace's contract while they try to rebuild.

[shrink]

what if we add duhon and VK and you add walker
So it would be Wallace, duhon (who you could move elsewhere and is expiring), VK (expiring) and our pick with some protection for
theo, walker, jaric

That saves you $ next year, I think-plus you get the pick.

Bulls might take walker to add to our players who can't shoot

Bulls
Kirk/gordon/thabo
Jaric/gordon/thabo
Deng/noc/thabo
Smith/TThomas/Noc/Walker
Noah/Theo/Gray

We still could make the playoffs?

First, you're right, people forget that CHI is only three games out of the play-offs.

Second, I played around with this deal a little. The initial deal just misses the cba requirements 125% requirement. Adding in Gerald Green and Sefalosha fits.

This deal is about +15 PPG, but the deal only saves money for MIN

2007-08 $5.0
2008-09 - $0.8
2009-10 -$6.9
2010-11 $7.6

So the deal costs CHI about $5 mil (not counting the costs of paying for the pick). This Ratliff deal is one that of the few that MIN can afford. Walker would have value next season, but the question becomes whether the players CHI took in would help them more than Wallace et al.? If that doesn't happen, then it doesn't make sense.

I'd offer one suggestion -- make it a three-teamer to move Duhon. He has some value, just not to MIN, and without a 1-for-1 deal, the 2-month waiting period before he could be traded again would extend past the NBA trade deadline.

[shrink]

^ If you like Thabo, you can use Adrian Griffin


One last point:

Ben Wallace has to be one of the ten worst contracts in the league right now. Wallace and Jaric are not. Splitting up Wallace may make for more digestible chunks in a 3-team trade.

[the_bruce]

I'm one of the few wolves posters who actually likes Jaric and think he brings some solid on court value even with his overpriced contract. At least he plays some very good D, hustles, has versatility, and doesnt need to score to help the team

That being said I'd like to see the wolves get something resembling a Center. Even though Wallace is at a low in terms of value I'd gladly give him a run for a bit. Other wolves posters will argue that adding Wallace will make our lotto chances worse. I argue that I'd rather watch a decent Wolves game for once and a center would help in making the games watchable.

From my angle whats this is a great scenario for the wolves.

hardin(or jordan)\Wallace
Al\x
Brewer (or beasly/Green shift brewer to sg keep foye at pg)
Foye\MccAnts
Rose


The above lineup looks pretty decent, but then MN hasa decent young core and most likely a decent pick plus Wallace's expiring to package for a piece they need.

Regardless of what the outcome is I doubt including theo helps the wolves, but I think a Jaric + Walker for Wallace + Top 10 protected pick is fair on both sides.

[dflaschberger]

Minny will still get a top lottery pick-wallace only adds a little order there, helps AlJeff.

maybe top 10 is fair for the protection

i also like the idea of duhon to a third team, how about GS? They could use some D behind Baron.

Cliff-walker wouldn't have to play, but having a veteran to throw in might be ok. Theo MIGHT help some; as the other poster stated, the playoffs are still our goal.

Long term, Jaric could be our 3rd guard, behind Kirk and Ben. He can pass, has size and plays D. thabo would get minutes too, especially if we end up dealing Noc somewhere later.

Bruce, yours is simplified but doesn't get Minny under the lux tax like mine did (I think).

How about this variation:

Chicago sends VK, Wallace, 08 pick (top 12 protected) to Minny
Chicago sends Duhon to GS

GS sends second round pick or maybe POB to Minny (GS has TE)

Minny sends Walker, Jaric and Theo to bulls

This easily gets minny under the lux tax, that's important
GS gets help
Chicago gets minutes for young bigs, an expiring this year and next, a 3rd guard (upgrade over duhon).

Their pick isn't that important to chicago if it's outside of the top 10 or so.

[shrink]

CHI needs to send out a little more to make it work financially, so I chose Adrian Griffin, and sent Duhon and Griffin to Orlando, thinking the Magic could use the reliable Duhon. I suppose the third team doesn't matter -- I just wanted to get a deal that worked in the checker

MIN SENDS: Ratliff, Walker, Jaric
MIN GETS: Ben Wallace, Khryapa, Garrity, CHI 1st (Top 12 Protected)

Loses the big expiring, but doesn't kill them in the lux.

CHI SENDS: Ben Wallace, Khryapa, Duhon, Griffin, CHI 1st (Top 12 Protected)
CHI GETS: Ratliff, Walker, Jaric

Same deal as above, but moves Griffin's 2-year deal. +11 PPG

ORL SENDS: Garrity
ORL GETS: Duhon, Griffin

Duhon's far more valuable than Garrity, cost is Griffin's small 2-year deal. +4.5 PPG, +4.0 APG