Pho-Sac-GS-Mia

[WarFan]

This was from the Kings/Suns thread, but I wanted to get more opinions.

Ok, this was a pain to put together and it's hard to know exactly where each team stands with the luxury tax, but I think this solves a lot.

GS sends: Harrington, Pietrus, POB, Hudson, 1st, cash
GS gets: Marion, Davis

Sac sends: Artest, Moore
Sac gets: Williams, POB, Piatkowski, Hudson, Mourning, cash, GS 1st, Atl 1st

Mia sends: Davis, Williams, Parker, Mourning, cash
Mia gets: Banks, Harrington

Pho sends: Marion, Banks, Piatkowski, Atl 1st, cash
Pho gets: Moore, Artest, Pietrus, Parker

GS uses their Trade Exception to take Davis from Miami.

Here's the link that shows it all:
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/t ... 1018&cash=

Explanations:
Mia: This trade would fulfill both of Pat Riley's stated goals leading up to the trade deadline: 1) get under the tax, and 2) add a shooter. This should put them under the lux tax, as they save 7.6 million this year. Harrington would actually be a good fit for them at the 3 and backup 4 and his contract expires with Shaq. The only real downside of this is that they have to take on Banks' deal of $15 million over the next 3 years, however the luxury tax savings from this trade would be about $12-13 this year and Banks might do better in a half court system. Plus they get to ship Smush.

Pho: With Artest, Moore and Pietrus, they get three players who could play in their system. Artest could replace most of what Marion does and any loss should be offset by the added players in the rotation. Parker is probably no worse than Banks, on a much better contract for them. They also save about 3 million this year which should put them just under the tax.

Sac: They get 2 firsts and a bunch of expiring contracts with as much cash as they can pry out of the other teams to pay them. Also, POB should be exactly what they're looking for next to Hawes, so they get a first hand look at him and if it doesn't work out their's no commitment.

GS: They get the best player in the deal, but also are taking a big risk that he'll stay. Davis would help replace Pietrus for this year before expiring. This trade puts them close to the tax this year and probably puts them over it for next, but I think it's worth it for them.

[BBallFreak]

From a Miami perspective, I'm sold.

Pg: Quinn / Banks
Sg: Wade / Cook
Sf: Wright / Harrington
Pf: Haslem / Harrington
Cc: O'Neal / Blount

That saves us $6.2 million and we add two guys shooting better than 40% from downtown. I like it a lot...

[Bac2Basics]

As I've said before, my only concern with a trade of this nature is this.

If the Kings move Artest without moving Kenny Thomas in the same deal, how to they move KT? Bibby & KT together is almost $20 million, which is going to be too much for most teams.

How does Kenny get moved without being attached to Artest?

[DBurks2818]

Give Pietrus to the Heat.

[WarFan]

As I've said before, my only concern with a trade of this nature is this.

If the Kings move Artest without moving Kenny Thomas in the same deal, how to they move KT? Bibby & KT together is almost $20 million, which is going to be too much for most teams.

How does Kenny get moved without being attached to Artest?

It depends what Sacramento's goal is with the trade. Young talent or cap space.

I don't know what Cleveland is offering now, but something like Newble, Marshall, Snow, Jones and Cleveland's 1st for Bibby, Thomas and Williams should be obtainable somewhere. This could give the Kings cap space in 2009, plus the pick (which would probably be in the late teens since Cleveland could finish worse than every playoff team in the West).

The main problem for Petrie is that bad contracts are getting much harder to move because just about every team is up against the luxury tax. I think that many teams are using that as leverage against the Kings to try and take advantage of the fact that without a trade Sacramento will probably be over the tax next year.

So, another advantage of this deal is that it insures that the Kings will be under the tax next year with room to sign picks and maneuver, thus taking leverage away from teams looking to fleece them. Also, it allows Sacramento to just keep their players into the summer without any sense of urgency, and look for the best deal.

[WarFan]

Give Pietrus to the Heat.

What's the hurry? I doubt he would be the guy to put them over the top this year. Phoenix probably won't want to resign him this off-season and everybody knows he wants to sign in Miami this summer, so if the Heat want him they can wait. Getting him now doesn't give them any advantage to resigning him as he loses his Bird rights in a trade and any team that wanted him would have to use cap space or the MLE.

[chriswebb86]

If the Kings are going to rebuild then I would do this trade in a second. We get a lot of exp contracts, we get a young player in POB, and we get two decent draft picks. Now if we were to move Bibby with Thomas to either the Cavs or NYK we may be able to add more young talent, save money, and maybe get a pick.

[DBurks2818]

-= original quote snipped =-


What's the hurry? I doubt he would be the guy to put them over the top this year. Phoenix probably won't want to resign him this off-season and everybody knows he wants to sign in Miami this summer, so if the Heat want him they can wait. Getting him now doesn't give them any advantage to resigning him as he loses his Bird rights in a trade and any team that wanted him would have to use cap space or the MLE.

Well for one, this trade leaves Miami (even more) thin at SF, because I don't see Riley wanting to play Harrington there.

Also, one of the team's biggest problems right now is chemistry. They're trying to get a working unit together so may as well see how Pietrus looks next to the core group before giving him a contract this summer.

[Bac2Basics]

Ok, let me rephrase my concern.

Assuming Bibby & KT is unrealistic (if for no other reason the Cleveland package isn't exciting to me)

How/with Who do we move KT and to which team?

[DanTown8587]

Artest and his expiring deal and Bibby are not good enough players to take on KT contract. You don't get to dump all your bad deals and get talent in return. Thats why there is a sale, you get to either get talent for talent or cap space (expiring deals) for talent. You rarely can get both.

With that said, Phoenix makes the deal, Sacramento makes the deal, Miami makes the deal, Golden State MIGHT make the deal.

[Bac2Basics]

Artest and his expiring deal and Bibby are not good enough players to take on KT contract. You don't get to dump all your bad deals and get talent in return. Thats why there is a sale, you get to either get talent for talent or cap space (expiring deals) for talent. You rarely can get both.
With that said, Phoenix makes the deal, Sacramento makes the deal, Miami makes the deal, Golden State MIGHT make the deal.

Artest and Bibby are both talented enough players to move a bad contract and still get a decent package back, they cover at least the majority of it anyway, particularly Artest.


The question is how exactly to do it.

[sac89837]

Good Job WarFan, Sacramento would be crazy not to take this deal. With Martin's deal kicking in next season we need to dump all the salary we can and get 2 1st is great.

I think the Kings are going to have to resign themselves to Kenny's deal until it become expiring. He, SAR and Brad will make a $27 Million + Expiring deal we can trade around the time we should be getting good.

After this we would just have to trade Bibby for Something like

Orl: Battie + Garrity+ Dooling + Lottery Protected 1st

or

Ind: ->Foster+Tinsley+Harrison+ 1st
<- Bibby

NYK -> Rose
<- Tinsley+Harrison

Sac:->Bibby
<-Foster+Rose+1st

That would leave us in great shape with 4 1st next draft.

[deNIEd]

You know, this trade looks realllyyy familiar

Ok, let me rephrase my concern.

Assuming Bibby & KT is unrealistic (if for no other reason the Cleveland package isn't exciting to me)

How/with Who do we move KT and to which team?

Well, I'm confused now. Is moving KT really THAT big of a priority? Unless we move Miller and Shareef as well, clearing just Kenny's contract isn't that big of a deal.

However, Miller can be traded for expirings. Shareef could very well next year.

I do think the kings could get Marbury + protected pick for Bibby + Thomas.

To me, it's much more important for the kings in getting young talent than getting rid of bad contracts right now. 3 first round picks, would do wonders for the Kings (considering none of the picks will be higher than 22 or so)

[WarFan]

^^^
Yeah, you totally set this up in the other thread, I just found the 4th team that could use Harrington and played with it a little bit.
All credit to deNIEd for the idea, I just wanted to get more Miami and GS fans opinions on what I consider a good deal all around.

[WarFan]

Concerning the Kings situation, I agree with some of the others in this thread that they should just keep Thomas, SAR and Miller's contracts. I don't think that any team will or even probably could give all expirings and picks for a trade where one of them is packaged with Artest or Bibby. Any deal like that will most likely be like the Cleveland deal I mentioned before (and I don't think that Artest with Thomas is more likely to get a better deal than Bibby and Thomas), so any package trade like that is gonna be a compromise of the length of the contracts coming back and the value of the picks/youth. I'd trade both Bibby and Artest for just expirings and the best picks/youth I could get. Then use next year to sort it all out and come back in 2009 with a young team built around Martin and Hawes, with $27 million of expiring contracts and also probably a couple of expendable young players to make a trade and get the veteran(s) to make the playoffs. And if it doesn't work in 2009, Sacramento could just let them all expire and have a ton of cap room.

[LPKingsFan]

I'm not sure that this is better than the deal in the original thread where the Kings got Marion. I think the Kings could get more for Marion than what's been tacked on here by adding GS to the mix. Maybe with Chicago, for example?

[WarFan]

I'm not sure that this is better than the deal in the original thread where the Kings got Marion. I think the Kings could get more for Marion than what's been tacked on here by adding GS to the mix. Maybe with Chicago, for example?

This could be valid. The original deal was Marion and ATL 1st for Artest, Garcia and Moore. So to beat this deal, Sacramento would have to get back something better than all expirings, a mid-late 1st and someone comparable to Garcia. I think that is beatable.
However, Phoenix would like this deal better IMO because it actually gets them under the luxury tax this year and relieves them of Banks' contract.

[pillwenney]

I'd really, really prefer to move Kenny. Phoenix could have GSW's 1st if they wanted That's how much I'd rather move him. I think that if SAR comes back healthy next year, and can prove to be a nice scorer off the bench, he may be movable for expirings (his contract would be 2 more years at less than $13million, and he would offer post offense--for a team that could use him, I don't think that would be so unrealistic--at the very worst, we could package him with Douby, or something). And with the way Brad is currently playing, moving him for expirings should be pretty easy.

[Bac2Basics]

[quote="deNIEd"][/quote]

The reason why I mention KT is because I don't think any Kings rebuild or whatever term one would choose to use could be complete without moving him.

[deNIEd]

Okay, then the question is, for the suns, the difference between KT and Moore, what will it take to even it out