shaq to bulls

dflaschberger · Post #1 » by **dflaschberger** » Fri Jan 18, 2008 1:25 am

read today that Riley has a "mandate" to get under the cap. It is clear Miami is done, needs to re build fast to keep wade long term.

Wallace, VK and their 08 #1 (no protection) for Shaq, Mourning (or smush)

-Miami saves almost $6 million
-miami gets a center to play everynite
-miami gets a pick (right now, #10)

Wallace and shaq's deals are the same length, but wallace's goes down each year, saving more $. He is not as bad as everyone says, just WAY overpaid.

Bulls roll the dice, go for it with Shaq. PLus, he won't play 30 games, meaning more minutes for the young guys. They can afford the extra $ for a change. Imagine the open looks with shaq down low for kirk/ben/noc/deng/smith. Plus, bulls have plenty of young guys, don't need another pick

Post #2 » by **BBallFreak** » Fri Jan 18, 2008 1:27 am

For like the 20th time, we're not trading Shaq, and especially not for Ben Wallace. If we're dealing him, it's to rebuild...

Flash is the Future · Post #3 » by **Flash is the Future** » Fri Jan 18, 2008 1:30 am

Call us on draft night when the Bulls pick is up and DeAndre Jordan is still available. If not, then we're passing. Chicago's pick isn't going to be worth swapping Shaq for Big Ben IMO, since Shaq>>>>>>>>>>>>>Big Ben.

JES12 · Post #4 » by **JES12** » Fri Jan 18, 2008 1:43 am

Quick fix for Miami to cut that 6 mil

drumroll, please......

Jason Williams to the Warriors using the TPE.

dflaschberger · Post #5 » by **dflaschberger** » Fri Jan 18, 2008 3:58 am

1. shaq will decline faster and more than Ben (from a higher point, of course)

2. Ben plays every nite

3. miami saves the $ they need

4. They get a pick, right now a lottery pick

5. GS will NOT take williams' deal

Flash is the Future · Post #6 » by **Flash is the Future** » Fri Jan 18, 2008 4:08 am

Williams is an expiring, and we could realistically send them enough cash at the deadline that he would be basically free. The only reason for Miami to consider this is the pick. Which IMO likely wouldn't be a lottery pick if we sent Shaq for Ben. So we pass, until we know where Chicago's picking for sure, in which case they pass.

bullzman23 · Post #7 » by **bullzman23** » Fri Jan 18, 2008 4:22 am

If Shaq were to flat out demand a trade, where would you guys expect his value to be at?

I'm one of the few non-Heat fans who doesn't really think O'Neal is done. I think this season, the Heat have done a poor job of surrounding O'Neal with shooters and athletic defenders. If a team can provide Shaq with that type of support, I still believe that he'd be an 18 ppg type of guy. I also think that the divorce has taken his heart out of the game.

That being said, if Shaq were to ask for a trade, there'd only be a few teams that could realistically make an offer for him. There are only a handful of a contracts that make a Shaq trade possible, and many of those that do are from players who probably won't be available for Shaq. Wallace is a good starting point IMO. I know on the Heat board one poster said he'd do a Shaq to Bulls trade if Chicago included two firsts. I'd personally do that. Previously I would have included Sefolosha, but his recent good play has caused me to pause on any Sefolosha trades. Duhon, though not spectacular, could be a nice piece to put next to Wade.

But I digress....what sort of offers would you expect to see for Shaq if he did demand a trade.

Post #8 » by **BBallFreak** » Fri Jan 18, 2008 11:49 am

Dallas, in particular, would be the team most likely to take him, followed by New York. However, Shaq got very upset when hearing his named even mentioned in rumors. He went to Riley and demanded reassurance that he wasn't being shopped. I don't think the Heat need to worry about him demanding a move.

dflaschberger · Post #9 » by **dflaschberger** » Fri Jan 18, 2008 12:19 pm

how about I add duhon and smush to the deal

wallace, duhon and our unprotected #1 this year for mourning (doesn't report), smush and Shaq. That saves more $, easily under the cap.
If VictorK has to be added to make the $ work, fine.

Wade would like Duhon, he plays hard and plays D. You guys need A LOT of help on D

Post #10 » by **BBallFreak** » Fri Jan 18, 2008 12:32 pm

How about no?

Seriously, we're not trading Shaq. Accept it. Move on...

dflaschberger · Post #11 » by **dflaschberger** » Fri Jan 18, 2008 5:44 pm

but, is it fair mr. freak?

Friend_Of_Haley · Post #12 » by **Friend_Of_Haley** » Fri Jan 18, 2008 5:53 pm

Bulls can't take on Shaq because of the luxury tax. We would have to send other salaries your way, but obviously you can't do that because the whole point was to save money anyways. If Chicago could take on the extra money I'd love it, but as far as any of us Bulls fans know, we aren't going to be in the luxury tax.

Post #13 » by **BBallFreak** » Fri Jan 18, 2008 6:48 pm

dflaschberger wrote:but, is it fair mr. freak?

No, it's not.

hermes · Post #14 » by **hermes** » Fri Jan 18, 2008 7:47 pm

BBallFreak wrote:For like the 20th time, we're not trading Shaq, and especially not for Ben Wallace. If we're dealing him, it's to rebuild...

you can't deal shaq it would be almost impossible
especially for rebuilding purposes

dflaschberger · Post #15 » by **dflaschberger** » Fri Jan 18, 2008 7:51 pm

Haley-maybe management would roll the dice to get Shaq? It would create a nice buzz, even though hard core fans know his diminished status. He is still better than Ben though

Mr. Freak, what would be fair. With his deal and how much Miami sucks, you get:
1. under the lux tax ("mandate" from owner)
2. Save more $ every year
3. Get a 5 to play every nite. Your D is TERRIBLE
4. Get duhon, a nice back up point
5. get an uprotected pick that sits at #9 or so.

That's a lot for the $20 million (grand)daddy

Flash is the Future · Post #16 » by **Flash is the Future** » Fri Jan 18, 2008 8:01 pm

The Bulls pick wouldn't be that good though. It would be a midfirst if we sent Shaq at best. Shaq can actually still play. Ben just completely sucks.

Friend_Of_Haley · Post #17 » by **Friend_Of_Haley** » Fri Jan 18, 2008 8:03 pm

dflaschberger wrote:Haley-maybe management would roll the dice to get Shaq? It would create a nice buzz, even though hard core fans know his diminished status. He is still better than Ben though

Its possible I guess. Also as much as myself and other Bulls fans act like it is common knowledge that we won't spend the tax its mostly based off of a rather obscure reference one time and we haven't heard anything about it since. So it is completely possible that the luxury tax is not a barrier, or that the barrier may be broken for special circumstances like this.

All that being said, I agree with BBall Freak, I don't think Shaq will be moved. They could move salary in many other ways if thats the concern. Its a risky game because they need to stay competitive or fear Wade leaving, but with at least one lottery pick on the way, not to mention it will be top 5 in a strong draft, they should be able to stay competitive for cheap. Then they just have to wait for Shaq to expire in a great FA class (its deep past just the big three) and they'll be back on championship status in no time.

Post #18 » by **BBallFreak** » Fri Jan 18, 2008 8:06 pm

Friend_Of_Haley wrote:All that being said, I agree with BBall Freak, I don't think Shaq will be moved. They could move salary in many other ways if thats the concern. Its a risky game because they need to stay competitive or fear Wade leaving, but with at least one lottery pick on the way, not to mention it will be top 5 in a strong draft, they should be able to stay competitive for cheap. Then they just have to wait for Shaq to expire in a great FA class (its deep past just the big three) and they'll be back on championship status in no time.

dflaschberger · Post #19 » by **dflaschberger** » Fri Jan 18, 2008 9:18 pm

but you guys are forgetting something-Shaq misses A LOT of games. Miami would have to account for the fact that shaq might miss 30 games and Chicago stays terrible. Remember, the bulls are in the mid lottery right now. There is no guarantee that shaq will instantly get them up to the playoffs.
Now, as a bulls' fan i believe they will make the playoffs even with no deal (thus making the pick more attractive)

Sorry, I just can't see many places to move Shaq, and it might be time to move him

Flash is the Future · Post #20 » by **Flash is the Future** » Fri Jan 18, 2008 9:20 pm

NOT for Ben Wallace!