RealGM

Trade ID #4420243

Chicago trades:

Ben Gordon
Joakim Noah
Viktor Krypia


Raptors trades:

Andrea Bargnani
Anthony Parker
Joey Graham



Reason: Gordon has been on and off the market for the Bulls now and it seems Noah is not fitting well with the team either. With Bosh as the PF, Bargnani is struggling to find his place outside of his natural position. IMO the two cannot coexist together as their game is too mid-long range oriented, but at least Bosh takes it into the paint once in a while. However, Bargnani is talented, and will thrive in the Bulls system as a PF; just he is in the wrong place now. Parker can bring some vet leadership as well and is consistent. Raps can use the slashing abilities of Gordon and the rebounding of Noah at C The rest are to round up the trade.

The Bulls get the screw here. Awful deal for them. Gordon AND Noah for Bargnani? I know they get AP, but his value in no way makes up the difference...

we dont want Noah's antics as well as another jumpshooting guard, so we'll pass as well

Noah is fitting in just fine in Chicago. Its all the other guys that have issues.

not good for the bulls

Raptors pass.

dont think its that far off value wise

but parker will not be traded, he had plenty of options to return to the nba and turned them down... he chose toronto.. he is a major part of the team..

Jim Todd Jr. wrote:dont think its that far off value wise..

Then think again.

It's not that far off value wise.

Gordon is a tweener with scoring ability and serious defensive issues due to his size. Parker is a more well rounded player who can play some defense. Gordon has youth, and he certainly has talent, but he also has a lot of weaknesses. Parker is older, he certainly has talent and he doesn't have a lot of weaknesses. The value there isn't that far off. Regardless of how much Bulls fans overrate their players (look at your record folks).

Noah is relatively unproven - kinda like Bargs. Only he's a lot less talented (read: Ceiling is way lower, but Bargs is a risk at this point to some degree as he's clearly not playing with confidence this year). But he's perhaps more what the Raptors are looking for and need from their backup big man.

Honestly I don't see why the Raptors do this. Bargs is the most talented player in the deal - even if he's also the biggest risk. Parker on the other hand is invaluable to the Raptors and Gordon certainly cannot and would not fill his shoes. His game is not well rounded enough. Takes too many dumb shots. All kinds of negatives that simply don't exist with Parker. Parker knows his role, Gordon thinks he can be a superstar (never happening).

You are clueless if you think that Parker's trade value is in the same universe as Gordon's. Parker's a role player whose play this year has been unimpressive while Gordon has been one of the only Bulls who has pulled his weight. Gordon is much much better and make no mistake about it, also a lot younger.

yellowknifer wrote:
Gordon is a tweener with scoring ability and serious defensive issues due to his size. Parker is a more well rounded player who can play some defense. Gordon has youth, and he certainly has talent, but he also has a lot of weaknesses. Parker is older, he certainly has talent and he doesn't have a lot of weaknesses. The value there isn't that far off. Regardless of how much Bulls fans overrate their players (look at your record folks).

I think Bulls fans will be more than honest about what has occurred this season. I really don't think its fair that all the players get painted with the losing brush. You really don't seem to know much about the Bulls.

Noah is relatively unproven - kinda like Bargs. Only he's a lot less talented (read: Ceiling is way lower, but Bargs is a risk at this point to some degree as he's clearly not playing with confidence this year). But he's perhaps more what the Raptors are looking for and need from their backup big man.

The thing is, Noah is playing a LOT better than Bargnani right now. He is also the same age and has a lot less pro experience. You can hang on to Bargnani for the potential, but other teams see a massive risk.

PER
Bargnani 8.49
Noah 17.49

and Noah is also a much better defender, which doesn't show up totally in PER.

Honestly I don't see why the Raptors do this. Bargs is the most talented player in the deal - even if he's also the biggest risk. Parker on the other hand is invaluable to the Raptors and Gordon certainly cannot and would not fill his shoes. His game is not well rounded enough. Takes too many dumb shots. All kinds of negatives that simply don't exist with Parker. Parker knows his role, Gordon thinks he can be a superstar (never happening).

Gordon is the most talented player. Sure, Gordon is a foot shorter than Bargnani, but AB chooses to play exactly like a lesser version of Ben Gordon.

.....

Saying that Gordon takes bad shots is just the icing on the cake. Who is he supposed to pass to? Ben Wallace? Chris Duhon? Gordon is the primary scorer on the Bulls and generally takes good shots. If there is a problem with him, its that he defers too much to players who are not effective on offense.

coldfish wrote:-= original quote snipped =-


Gordon is the most talented player. Sure, Gordon is a foot shorter than Bargnani, but AB chooses to play exactly like a lesser version of Ben Gordon.

.....

Saying that Gordon takes bad shots is just the icing on the cake. Who is he supposed to pass to? Ben Wallace? Chris Duhon? Gordon is the primary scorer on the Bulls and generally takes good shots. If there is a problem with him, its that he defers too much to players who are not effective on offense.

Would you be interested in something like:

Andrea Bargnani
Jorge Garbajosa
Future 2nd Rounder
for
Chris Duhon
Tyrus Thomas
Adrian Griffin

Or is that just getting worse and worse

As an unbiased Heat fan, the revision looks much better, though I'm quite sure some Raptors fans are going to be calling for your head to be displayed in the middle of their arena, impaled on a pike for all potential traders to behold...

bryant08 wrote:Would you be interested in something like:

Andrea Bargnani
Jorge Garbajosa
Future 2nd Rounder
for
Chris Duhon
Tyrus Thomas
Adrian Griffin

Or is that just getting worse and worse

Value wise, that would be pretty good. Roster wise, Chicago would still have lots of issues and Bargnani would suffer for it.

Chicago simply has too many players and when combined with Wallace's 35 entitlement minutes, its just too hard to get young big men in the game.

Bulls need to:
- Do a 2 or 3 for 1 trade where the guy coming back is better than any of the ones going out
or
- dump Ben Wallace

Nothing in this thread does either of those.

bryant08 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



Would you be interested in something like:

Andrea Bargnani
Jorge Garbajosa
Future 2nd Rounder
for
Chris Duhon
Tyrus Thomas
Adrian Griffin

Or is that just getting worse and worse

I don't think that's worse or unfair or anything but it's not really worth doing. I would only be interested in 2 trades...

1. Something that removes Ben Wallace in nearly any way to open up minutes for the young kids.

2. A large trade moving several pieces for one focal piece.

Anything else is treading water and not really worth it.

The Raptors take trade #1 and shred the paper trail.