Bulls/Hornets

2poor · Post #1 » by **2poor** » Sat Jan 19, 2008 12:24 am

Duhon/Thabo/Tyrus

for

Pargo/Wright/Butler

Works financially.

Gives New Orleans a more "classic" PG to backup Chris Paul and makes up for Bobby Jackson's shortcomings in the playmaking department. Allows Jackson to settle in to his more comfortable "instant offense" role.

Pargo goes back home to Chicago, from what I understand he's still well-liked by many of the fans. Gives Chicago a much needed offensive spark off the bench, and despite his size, he's a scrappy defender.

Also coming home is Julian Wright, perhaps it'll force Deng's hand a bit more. Could be a Scottie Pippen type player if he continues working on his outside shooting. The playmaking ability is there.

Tyrus comes back to New Orleans, perhaps the LSU connection will settle him down more, but more importantly, create more of a stir amongst the locals and get them out to more games.

Butler plays a lot better when he has a bigger role, and when he's on, he's as good a 3 point shooter as they come. Defensively sound too, long and athletic enough to compete with offensively-gifted wings. I think he is the classic example of "needs a change of scenery." He was great last year when injuries were ravaging the team and he was getting starts and/or starter-type minutes; once people started getting healthy though he was never able to find his role off the bench.

Get it done.

DanTown8587 · Post #2 » by **DanTown8587** » Sat Jan 19, 2008 12:35 am

O.K., the Bulls trade an expiring deal, a young and unproven SG and PF and get back Jannero Pargo, Julian Wright (who as long as Deng here is going to not see the court) and Butler's mediocre deal and Butler continues to not score down low. Yeah, Bulls are running at this deal with arms wide open. And your description of Butler sounds like a guy selling me their garbage, if he does all these things so well, why are you trading him??

shrink · Post #3 » by **shrink** » Sat Jan 19, 2008 12:40 am

You're undervalueing Wright's potential.

Anything MIN can offer for Wright?

DanTown8587 · Post #4 » by **DanTown8587** » Sat Jan 19, 2008 12:42 am

shrink wrote:You're undervalueing Wright's potential.

Anything MIN can offer for Wright?

No, I am saying if the Bulls keep Deng, where is Wright gonna play with Luol, and since Luol would be paid starter minutes, its stupid to trade TT for a guy who is instantly a back-up.

Friend_Of_Haley · Post #5 » by **Friend_Of_Haley** » Sat Jan 19, 2008 12:44 am

Talent wise its not bad for Chicago, but it just doesn't make sense with Wright being a SF. I do like the idea of Pargo though. I doubt you'd do What about just leaving out Tyrus and Wright? It would make a little more sense for Chicago, although I don't think I'd do it still, it would be a little better.

2poor · Post #6 » by **2poor** » Sat Jan 19, 2008 12:46 am

DanTown8587 wrote:O.K., the Bulls trade an expiring deal, a young and unproven SG and PF and get back Jannero Pargo, Julian Wright (who as long as Deng here is going to not see the court) and Butler's mediocre deal and Butler continues to not score down low. Yeah, Bulls are running at this deal with arms wide open. And your description of Butler sounds like a guy selling me their garbage, if he does all these things so well, why are you trading him??

Wright can play the 4 too. He's really long and is already known to be a good defender. He has the potential to be whatever a team needs him to be, he's a great finisher, a solid ball-handler, and a great playmaker/distributor. And surely, the idea that Deng walks at some point isn't completely out of the question at this point. He's a damn good plan B.

Pargo has a very reasonable deal, the money being exchanged here is far from a defining point of the trade. Butler's deal runs 2 more years and he's only making $3.3M this year...again, not an unreasonable total.

As I said, Butler is still a good player with plenty of potential to be productive, but he has hit a wall here in New Orleans and completely lost his confidence. The idea of a change of location via trade helping restore a player's confidence (and production) isn't a new one.

2poor · Post #7 » by **2poor** » Sat Jan 19, 2008 12:49 am

shrink wrote:You're undervalueing Wright's potential.

Anything MIN can offer for Wright?

Brewer?

DanTown8587 · Post #8 » by **DanTown8587** » Sat Jan 19, 2008 12:51 am

Julian Wright will not be a better PF than Tyrus Thomas. That kills this deal. And the fact Butler is not a good contract.

2poor · Post #9 » by **2poor** » Sat Jan 19, 2008 12:53 am

Bulls are pretty loaded at that position though, no?

Wright is considerably more flexible as to what you need him to do on the floor, whereas Tyrus has looked out of sorts when asked to play SF, while thriving at the 4. Am I wrong?

Julian would give the Bulls a "do-it-all" guy, and Tyrus would be in a situation where he'd be asked almost exclusively to back up the 4.

Friend_Of_Haley · Post #10 » by **Friend_Of_Haley** » Sat Jan 19, 2008 12:58 am

2poor wrote:Bulls are pretty loaded at that position though, no?

Wright is considerably more flexible as to what you need him to do on the floor, whereas Tyrus has looked out of sorts when asked to play SF, while thriving at the 4. Am I wrong?

Julian would give the Bulls a "do-it-all" guy, and Tyrus would be in a situation where he'd be asked almost exclusively to back up the 4.

We don't need the flexibility. We have Nocioni and Thabo who can back up SF before we have to worry about Thomas getting time there. Those backup minutes are going to be about 10 a game, at most.

I like Wright, he just doesn't fit.

2poor · Post #11 » by **2poor** » Sat Jan 19, 2008 1:01 am

But isn't Tyrus getting a bit redundant? What if it was Noah instead of Tyrus?

DanTown8587 · Post #12 » by **DanTown8587** » Sat Jan 19, 2008 1:05 am

2poor wrote:But isn't Tyrus getting a bit redundant? What if it was Noah instead of Tyrus?

#1 Reason why John Paxson won't trade Tyrus Thomas: He didn't take LaMarcus Aldridge in the 05 draft and then trades the guy he did get two years later for anything less than an established, NBA starter?

#1 Reason why John Paxson won't trade Joakim Noah: C who are 3/8, have size, can pass and play hard are few and far between.

#2 Reason why John Paxson won't trade any big: Tyson Chandler

2poor · Post #13 » by **2poor** » Sat Jan 19, 2008 1:07 am

DanTown8587 wrote:#1 Reason why John Paxson won't trade Tyrus Thomas: He didn't take LaMarcus Aldridge in the 05 draft and then trades the guy he did get two years later for anything less than an established, NBA starter?

#1 Reason why John Paxson won't trade Joakim Noah: C who are 3/8, have size, can pass and play hard are few and far between.

#2 Reason why John Paxson won't trade any big: Tyson Chandler

Giving up Wright is just as much of a gamble for the Hornets as Noah/Tyrus would be for the Bulls.

You think Paxson wouldn't pull the trigger on a deal because he resented how a previous one turned out? Chandler was a salary dump on his part. The Hornets were just happy to open their doors. They didn't dupe him into making that trade, and aside from that, this is no salary dump. The salaries being moved are very modest and aren't going to restrain future financial decisions.

Friend_Of_Haley · Post #14 » by **Friend_Of_Haley** » Sat Jan 19, 2008 1:10 am

2poor wrote:But isn't Tyrus getting a bit redundant? What if it was Noah instead of Tyrus?

It doesn't matter, we're still getting back a redundant player. It seems awfully like making a move for the sake of making a move.

Bulls needs:
Big SG
Low Post Scorer

2poor · Post #15 » by **2poor** » Sat Jan 19, 2008 1:10 am

Take Wright out for Hilton Armstrong?

Friend_Of_Haley · Post #16 » by **Friend_Of_Haley** » Sat Jan 19, 2008 1:13 am

Let me ask you this:

Is the motivation for this deal for you to acquire Tyrus Thomas or Thabo or Duhon?

DanTown8587 · Post #17 » by **DanTown8587** » Sat Jan 19, 2008 1:13 am

Then its a trade of young big for young bigs, its not gonna happen. I'm sorry, but TT/Noah are almost impossible to get unless you are giving significant talent back in some way or good draft picks. Thomas was the 2 pick, hard to give up after not even two years.

DanTown8587 · Post #18 » by **DanTown8587** » Sat Jan 19, 2008 1:15 am

Paxson is hesitant to trade a big away who is young after the Chandler trade. You might be able to survive trading him, then signing the terrible Wallace. But if TT does anything in the league, Paxson will be remembered as the guy who gave away Tyson Chandler, passed on LaMarcus Aldridge for Tyrus Thomas then gave away Tyrus.

2poor · Post #19 » by **2poor** » Sat Jan 19, 2008 1:16 am

Friend_Of_Haley wrote:Let me ask you this:

Is the motivation for this deal for you to acquire Tyrus Thomas or Thabo or Duhon?

Honestly, all 3 really. Hornets need a distributor at backup PG, Jackson and Pargo are redundant. Thabo would transition to our starting SG, allowing Mo Pete to enjoy his twilight years in a role off the bench. I understand the cornerstone by default will end up being Tyrus though.

edit: Probably be willing to throw in some sort of draft pick too.

Post #20 » by **coldfish** » Sat Jan 19, 2008 1:16 am

Honestly, 2poor, this isn't even close. Regardless of value, Chicago just has too many players and no elite ones. If Chicago is going to make a trade, it better be a 2 for 1 type exchange where the 1 is better than what the team has.

The above type of trades are just moving around the deck chairs on the Titanic. Instead of Tyrus and Thabo rotting on the bench, you would have Butler and Wright there on Chicago.

The Bulls have, right now, Deng, Nocioni, Joe Smith (who is playing well), Noah and Tyrus getting playing time at the 3 and 4 spots. Its just too many players.