RealGM

Kings deal:
Ron Artest
Beno Udrih

Raptors deal:
Jose Calderon
Jorge Garbajosa

Raptors new lineup:
Ford/Udrih
Parker/Delfino
Artest/Moon
Bosh/Humphries
Bargani/Nesterovic

Kings new lineup:
Bibby/Calderon
Martin/Douby
Salmons/Garcia
Moore/Garbs/K9
Miller/Hawes/Williams

like the dallas deal, i think whether this would happen or not would depend on whether artest would sign an extension. in this case, it would also depend on whether jose would

ss_maverick wrote:like the dallas deal, i think whether this would happen or not would depend on whether artest would sign an extension. in this case, it would also depend on whether jose would

But you get bird rights, which is a big advantage over other teams.

Somehow, I just don't see Artest in Toronto.

Or anywhere in Canada, actually.

Wait up, weren't the Kings trying to deal Artest for Balkman and Nate Robinson? And you're asking for Calderon and Garbajosa? Ah heck nah, that isn't what he's worth on the market. And besides we aren't trading Calderon.

i disagree with Kosta. if there was any assurance that Artest wouldn't completely flip out coming to Canada, i thnk thats a good deal for Toronto.

its not a good trade at all for toronto

I'm sure my fellow Raptor fans will rip me for this, but I have an idea that would deliver a point guard and take a terrible contract off your hands.

This would be a draft day deal, with the following assumptions:
1) Ford has returned and is playing usual minutes at his usual ability (seems likely)
2) Sacramento's pick is in the 6-10 range (also seems likely)
3) Bibby has been moved (possible)

Ford, Graham, '08 2nd

for

Garcia, K. Thomas, '08 1st, '10 first

In terms of value, consider is as Ford/2nd for Garcia/1st, and giving up a future 1st to unload Thomas' deal.

Thoughts?

Kosta wrote:Wait up, weren't the Kings trying to deal Artest for Balkman and Nate Robinson? And you're asking for Calderon and Garbajosa? Ah heck nah, that isn't what he's worth on the market. And besides we aren't trading Calderon.

False

And Garbajosa has no value until he shows he's healthy again - he was just a filler.

Maritimer wrote:I'm sure my fellow Raptor fans will rip me for this, but I have an idea that would deliver a point guard and take a terrible contract off your hands.

This would be a draft day deal, with the following assumptions:
1) Ford has returned and is playing usual minutes at his usual ability (seems likely)
2) Sacramento's pick is in the 6-10 range (also seems likely)
3) Bibby has been moved (possible)

Ford, Graham, '08 2nd

for

Garcia, K. Thomas, '08 1st, '10 first

In terms of value, consider is as Ford/2nd for Garcia/1st, and giving up a future 1st to unload Thomas' deal.

Thoughts?

Cant see the Kings doing this deal. A pick in the 6-10 range could likely get us a PG of Ford's caliber or a big man. Then we give up Garcia who the Kings are high on and for good reason, so basically Garcia+ a top prospect for Ford plus another future 1st. We do unload K9 but its still not worth it.

Maritimer wrote:I'm sure my fellow Raptor fans will rip me for this, but I have an idea that would deliver a point guard and take a terrible contract off your hands.

This would be a draft day deal, with the following assumptions:
1) Ford has returned and is playing usual minutes at his usual ability (seems likely)
2) Sacramento's pick is in the 6-10 range (also seems likely)
3) Bibby has been moved (possible)

Ford, Graham, '08 2nd

for

Garcia, K. Thomas, '08 1st, '10 first

In terms of value, consider is as Ford/2nd for Garcia/1st, and giving up a future 1st to unload Thomas' deal.

Thoughts?

No way! Kings are not dealing our potential lottery pick for Ford...

Maritimer wrote:I'm sure my fellow Raptor fans will rip me for this, but I have an idea that would deliver a point guard and take a terrible contract off your hands.

This would be a draft day deal, with the following assumptions:
1) Ford has returned and is playing usual minutes at his usual ability (seems likely)
2) Sacramento's pick is in the 6-10 range (also seems likely)
3) Bibby has been moved (possible)

Ford, Graham, '08 2nd

for

Garcia, K. Thomas, '08 1st, '10 first

In terms of value, consider is as Ford/2nd for Garcia/1st, and giving up a future 1st to unload Thomas' deal.

Thoughts?

I don't see Ford's value being that high. Team are going to be very cautious with him due to his injuries so far. I really don't see a team giving up pick in the 6-10 range when they can possibly have a young point. Not to mention the Garcia for second rounder which is also bad for them.

Jose Calderon @ age 27 (this year):

11.9 / 8.4 / 3.3, 1 steal, 1.45 TOs, 51/42/91


Jason Williams @ age 28 (02-03 season--second year w/ Grizzlies):

12.1 / 8.3 / 2.8. 1.2 steals, 2.21 TOs, 39/35/84


Keep in mind that Williams was taking 2.5x more 3pters than Calderon does (thus driving his FG% down significantly).


So what's my point? My point is that in the games I've watched Calderon I don't see anything special in him and the fact that it seems the only thing people bring up to argue on his behalf are his stats. But as the above shows, other very mediocre players (Brevin Knight of just a couple years ago comes to mind as well) have put up very similar stats.

Needless to say I don't see Calderon as the starting PG on a contending team--the same thing I think of Udrih. So why give up Udrih AND Artest and still not get that great of a player coming back?

The first deal i think would be possible if TJ Ford never went down, but I think the Raptors hold on to Calderon. He's good and fits what they are doing

The second deal is laughable to the Kings. You traded Ford for Charlie V. You think you are going to get two firsts and Garcia who is already on his way to be a great player, not a chance especially when Ford is no big injury away to never playing again

rpa wrote:Jose Calderon @ age 27 (this year):

11.9 / 8.4 / 3.3, 1 steal, 1.45 TOs, 51/42/91


Jason Williams @ age 28 (02-03 season--second year w/ Grizzlies):

12.1 / 8.3 / 2.8. 1.2 steals, 2.21 TOs, 39/35/84


Keep in mind that Williams was taking 2.5x more 3pters than Calderon does (thus driving his FG% down significantly).


So what's my point? My point is that in the games I've watched Calderon I don't see anything special in him and the fact that it seems the only thing people bring up to argue on his behalf are his stats. But as the above shows, other very mediocre players (Brevin Knight of just a couple years ago comes to mind as well) have put up very similar stats.

Needless to say I don't see Calderon as the starting PG on a contending team--the same thing I think of Udrih. So why give up Udrih AND Artest and still not get that great of a player coming back?

Calderon is just a very solid pure point guard. He doesn't do anything special or flashy which is probably why you said you don't see anything special in him. But he's solid and consistent. He can shoot the 3 at a good %, he gets the ball to where he's supposed to, he finds his scorers where they like the ball, and he doesn't turn the ball over. His passes are always on target and where they're supposed to go. But he still can't defend and wont give you 25 a game. His unselfishness is almost a flaw because at times defenses can play off him if he passes up too many shots. Obviously with him as your starting PG you need a certain kind of team around him; like a Kmart,Garcia and John Salmons.

sackings916 wrote:Calderon is just a very solid pure point guard. He doesn't do anything special or flashy which is probably why you said you don't see anything special in him. But he's solid and consistent. He can shoot the 3 at a good %, he gets the ball to where he's supposed to, he finds his scorers where they like the ball, and he doesn't turn the ball over. His passes are always on target and where they're supposed to go. But he still can't defend and wont give you 25 a game. His unselfishness is almost a flaw because at times defenses can play off him if he passes up too many shots. Obviously with him as your starting PG you need a certain kind of team around him; like a Kmart,Garcia and John Salmons.

I think you'd need much more than those 3 around Calderon to be successful.

It's also not about seeing flashy things from Calderon. It's that I don't see him as a floor general nor does he seem to create good shot opportunities for his teammates.

Needless to say, my point isn't that Calderon is a bad player. Jwill was a good player too. My point is that I think that the value of Udrih & Artest is higher than that. Plus, I think the Calderon and Udrih fall into the same category as PGs who don't seemed destined to be starters on a title team. Calderon may be better than Udrih (I'll definitely admit that) but the difference is MUCH smaller than Ron Artest.

When calderin is starting he is averaging 14 and 10. We are not trading him or Ford.